(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote


As for "free upgrades", the FCC already unleased THAT genie with thier
last round of "restructuring" with no help at all from the ARRL.


And what "free upgrade" did you see in the last round or
restructuring?

The only thing that remotely resembles "free", was giving Pre-87
Technicians credit for the General written exam which they took.
Since the exam was EXACTLY the same as Generals took, I don't see any
freebie there.

But just wait till ARRL BoD meets next month...... I expect to see
them recommend a three-tier license regime, with a new low-powered 50W
beginners "C" license, a new mid-range "B" license with 3-400W power
limit, and a new top of the line "A" class license with 1.5KW power
limit and a CW test in the 15-25WPM range. Frequency ghettos for "C"
and "B" similar to now. Current Novice/Tech get free upgrade to "B"
privs, current General/Advanced get free upgrade to "A".
Yawwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

I'm sure I'll miss some of the details in their proposal, but the
above is pretty much the way I read the tea-leaves.


73, de Hans, K0HB

"Hans K0HB" wrote in message
om...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote


As for "free upgrades", the FCC already unleased THAT genie with
thier
last round of "restructuring" with no help at all from the ARRL.


And what "free upgrade" did you see in the last round or
restructuring?

The only thing that remotely resembles "free", was giving Pre-87
Technicians credit for the General written exam which they took.
Since the exam was EXACTLY the same as Generals took, I don't see any
freebie there.

But just wait till ARRL BoD meets next month...... I expect to see
them recommend a three-tier license regime, with a new low-powered 50W
beginners "C" license, a new mid-range "B" license with 3-400W power
limit, and a new top of the line "A" class license with 1.5KW power
limit and a CW test in the 15-25WPM range. Frequency ghettos for "C"
and "B" similar to now. Current Novice/Tech get free upgrade to "B"
privs, current General/Advanced get free upgrade to "A".
Yawwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

I'm sure I'll miss some of the details in their proposal, but the
above is pretty much the way I read the tea-leaves.


73, de Hans, K0HB

Dang Hans....imagine....a three tier license structure....what a wonderful
thought....too simple, to obvious, and necessary. So it won't happen.

Dan/W4NTI

"Hans K0HB" wrote in message
om...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote

As for "free upgrades", the FCC already unleased THAT genie with
thier
last round of "restructuring" with no help at all from the ARRL.

And what "free upgrade" did you see in the last round or
restructuring?

The only thing that remotely resembles "free", was giving Pre-87
Technicians credit for the General written exam which they took.
Since the exam was EXACTLY the same as Generals took, I don't see any
freebie there.

But just wait till ARRL BoD meets next month...... I expect to see
them recommend a three-tier license regime, with a new low-powered 50W
beginners "C" license, a new mid-range "B" license with 3-400W power
limit, and a new top of the line "A" class license with 1.5KW power
limit and a CW test in the 15-25WPM range. Frequency ghettos for "C"
and "B" similar to now. Current Novice/Tech get free upgrade to "B"
privs, current General/Advanced get free upgrade to "A".
Yawwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

I'm sure I'll miss some of the details in their proposal, but the
above is pretty much the way I read the tea-leaves.
73, de Hans, K0HB

The important aspect of getting to any truly "new" licensing scheme
absolutly requires either some free upgrades, loss of some privileges
or a combination of both. Hans's view of the future takes into
account a "least" loss approach plus free upgrades. I could easily
support Hans's vision above. The one differing aspect I think
would be that the "C" license would more likly have a 100W
limit since 50w would exclude a great many rigs.

Personally, I have no problem with free upgrades if it makes
sense and is done to (1) simplify overall and (2) avoids taking
significant privileges away from anyone already licensed.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"Bill Sohl" wrote


The important aspect of getting to any truly "new" licensing scheme
absolutly requires either some free upgrades, loss of some privileges
or a combination of both. Hans's view of the future takes into
account a "least" loss approach plus free upgrades. I could easily
support Hans's vision above.

That's not my view of the future, and it FOR DAMNED SURE isn't my "vision".

For a view of my vision, visit http://tinyurl.com/wce9. No losses, and no
freebie upgrades, and elimination of "newcomer ghettos". So much for your
"absolutly (sic) requires".

73, de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message
news

"Bill Sohl" wrote


The important aspect of getting to any truly "new" licensing scheme
absolutly requires either some free upgrades, loss of some privileges
or a combination of both. Hans's view of the future takes into
account a "least" loss approach plus free upgrades. I could easily
support Hans's vision above.

That's not my view of the future, and it FOR DAMNED SURE isn't my
"vision".

For a view of my vision, visit http://tinyurl.com/wce9. No losses, and no
freebie upgrades, and elimination of "newcomer ghettos". So much for your
"absolutly (sic) requires".
73, de Hans, K0HB

Hans,

Apologies for misunderstanding your position. As to my
view that either freebies or losses are needed to get to a
new license plan, I truly think that will be the case. I doubt
the FCC wants to have a hybred licensing scheme in the
long run. That's my perspective. Assuming "free upgrades"
as was noted in your post, what's the overall harm?

Cheers and Happy New Year.
Bill K2UNK

"Bill Sohl" wrote

Assuming "free upgrades"
as was noted in your post, what's the overall harm?

You're a bright guy, Bill, so surely you can see the "overall harm", but
maybe you're having some trouble shaking off the effects of your New Years
Eve celebration, so I'll spell it out for you.

Today, passing the Amateur Extra exam is the qualification required for full
amateur privileges. An existing General or Advanced licensee has passed a
less comprehensive set of examinations, and has not (by FCC definition)
demonstrated qualification for full amateur privileges.

If FCC suddenly upgrades all General and Advanced licenses to Amateur Extra,
then ipso facto and ipso jure the qualification required for full amateur
privileges has been lowered by two full steps.

Given that sad state of affairs, now any NEW amateur hopefuls can reasonably
plead that any examination more comprehensive than the current General
discriminates against new applicants.

In some circles I've heard that called "the Great Dumbing Down" of amateur
radio.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Bill Sohl" wrote

Assuming "free upgrades"
as was noted in your post, what's the overall harm?

You're a bright guy, Bill, so surely you can see the "overall harm", but
maybe you're having some trouble shaking off the effects of your New Years
Eve celebration, so I'll spell it out for you.

Today, passing the Amateur Extra exam is the qualification required for
full
amateur privileges. An existing General or Advanced licensee has passed a
less comprehensive set of examinations, and has not (by FCC definition)
demonstrated qualification for full amateur privileges.

If FCC suddenly upgrades all General and Advanced licenses to Amateur
Extra,
then ipso facto and ipso jure the qualification required for full amateur
privileges has been lowered by two full steps.

Only on a one-time basis. The question still is, what is the harm of
such a one-time "fix."

Given that sad state of affairs, now any NEW amateur hopefuls can
reasonably
plead that any examination more comprehensive than the current General
discriminates against new applicants.

They can plead all they want...doesn't make it so. The FCC could
certainly counter argue the upgrades were a one-time need to
simplify the overall license structure. YMMV

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"Bill Sohl" wrote


Only on a one-time basis.


If N2EY's latest post under "ARS License Numbers" is accurate, and if the
"fix" was instituted today, the number of Amateur Extra licensees would
increase by 213% and the vast majority (69%) of this enlarged "Extra Class"
would not qualify for the license under yesterdays rules or tomorrows rules.




Given that sad state of affairs, now any NEW amateur hopefuls can
reasonably plead that any examination more comprehensive
than the current General discriminates against new applicants.

They can plead all they want...doesn't make it so. The FCC could
certainly counter argue the upgrades were a one-time need to
simplify the overall license structure.

Their counter argument would utterly fail, because they'd first need to
prove that the "one-time need" over-rides the harm of a massive influx of
underqualified (by their own rules) individuals into the top class of
amateur operators. Judges rule on logic, not administrative convenience.


The question still is, what is the harm of such a one-time "fix."


Trivializing this as a one-time "fix" shows how little you've examined the
issue. Instead of a one-time "fix", it would be a one-time "hammer blow".
The answer still is exactly as stated in my previous message.

Cheerios and bran flakes to you to,

K0HB

In article ,
(Hans K0HB) writes:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote

As for "free upgrades", the FCC already unleased THAT genie with thier
last round of "restructuring" with no help at all from the ARRL.

And what "free upgrade" did you see in the last round or
restructuring?

ARRL proposed that all existing Novices and Tech Pluses get a free upgrade to
General. Didn't happen, of course.

The only thing that remotely resembles "free", was giving Pre-87
Technicians credit for the General written exam which they took.
Since the exam was EXACTLY the same as Generals took, I don't see any
freebie there.

Exactly. In fact, it wasn't even automatic - the Tech Plus had to show up at a
VE
session, pay the fee (even if no tests were taken) and provide documentation.

But just wait till ARRL BoD meets next month...... I expect to see
them recommend a three-tier license regime, with a new low-powered 50W
beginners "C" license,

100 W, but what's 3 dB?

a new mid-range "B" license with 3-400W power
limit,

Nope.

and a new top of the line "A" class license with 1.5KW power
limit and a CW test in the 15-25WPM range.

WHOA!

You *did* predict it!

Frequency ghettos for "C"
and "B" similar to now. Current Novice/Tech get free upgrade to "B"
privs, current General/Advanced get free upgrade to "A".

Half credit for half right.

Yawwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

I'm sure I'll miss some of the details in their proposal, but the
above is pretty much the way I read the tea-leaves.

And it's closer to what I recommended than what the BoD actually did.

And as we now know....

73 de Jim, N2EY