"Dee D. Flint wrote:

Since no one is prohibited from doing
public service, no authorization is
needed. (snip)


To do the types of public service we're authorized to do (MARS, RACES, and
so on), authorization is required.

Sec. 97.407
(a) No station may transmit in RACES
unless it is an FCC-licensed primary,
club, or military recreation station and
it is certified by a civil defense organization
as registered with that organization, or it
is an FCC-licensed RACES station. (snip)

Care to show me where Part 95 authorizes CB'ers to operate a station at
all similar to a RACES station? What about a MARS station? What about
operations serving government agencies and others? In fact, show me where
Part 95 authorizes any activity beyond the recreational use of those
frequencies.


(snip) It is a recognition of what we
do and the value of what we do. It is
a good and solid justification to use
for the continued existence of amateur
radio. Nothing more.


Sadly, far too many in Amateur Radio today have that attitude towards
public service.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
k.net...
"Dee D. Flint wrote:

Since no one is prohibited from doing
public service, no authorization is
needed. (snip)


To do the types of public service we're authorized to do (MARS, RACES,
and
so on), authorization is required.

Sec. 97.407
(a) No station may transmit in RACES
unless it is an FCC-licensed primary,
club, or military recreation station and
it is certified by a civil defense organization
as registered with that organization, or it
is an FCC-licensed RACES station. (snip)

Care to show me where Part 95 authorizes CB'ers to operate a station at
all similar to a RACES station? What about a MARS station? What about
operations serving government agencies and others? In fact, show me where
Part 95 authorizes any activity beyond the recreational use of those
frequencies.



That is an authorization to operate on those frequencies and an
authorization to operate the station not an authorization to do public
service. There is a difference. And to do MARS or CAP, it is not the FCC
that authorizes you but other agencies and services. But I repeat that is
authorization to use the frequencies not authorization to do public service.
RACES is the same way. You have to be authorized for RACES operation but
that is not the same as authorizing one to do public service. RACES is a
very specific organization with very specific goals and tasks.

You do not and never have needed an authorization to do public service.
Where in the rules does it say that I need the FCC's authorization to do
communications at a walk-a-thon? Where in the rules does it state that I
need FCC's authorization to be part of the team that deployed here in the
Michigan area during the August power blackout? Where in the rules does it
say that I need the FCC's authorization to join ARES. Nowhere. The list
could go on and on.


(snip) It is a recognition of what we
do and the value of what we do. It is
a good and solid justification to use
for the continued existence of amateur
radio. Nothing more.


Sadly, far too many in Amateur Radio today have that attitude towards
public service.

Most of do follow the personal commitment to participate in public service
since it is not only a long and time honored tradition but the right thing
to do. That does not change the fact that there is no mandate to do so.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

In article om, "Dee D.
Flint" writes:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
nk.net...
"Dee D. Flint wrote:

Since no one is prohibited from doing
public service, no authorization is
needed. (snip)


To do the types of public service we're authorized to do (MARS, RACES,
and
so on), authorization is required.

Sec. 97.407
(a) No station may transmit in RACES
unless it is an FCC-licensed primary,
club, or military recreation station and
it is certified by a civil defense organization
as registered with that organization, or it
is an FCC-licensed RACES station. (snip)

Care to show me where Part 95 authorizes CB'ers to operate a station at
all similar to a RACES station? What about a MARS station? What about
operations serving government agencies and others? In fact, show me where
Part 95 authorizes any activity beyond the recreational use of those
frequencies.



That is an authorization to operate on those frequencies and an
authorization to operate the station not an authorization to do public
service. There is a difference. And to do MARS or CAP, it is not the FCC
that authorizes you but other agencies and services. But I repeat that is
authorization to use the frequencies not authorization to do public service.
RACES is the same way. You have to be authorized for RACES operation but
that is not the same as authorizing one to do public service. RACES is a
very specific organization with very specific goals and tasks.

You do not and never have needed an authorization to do public service.
Where in the rules does it say that I need the FCC's authorization to do
communications at a walk-a-thon? Where in the rules does it state that I
need FCC's authorization to be part of the team that deployed here in the
Michigan area during the August power blackout? Where in the rules does it
say that I need the FCC's authorization to join ARES. Nowhere. The list
could go on and on.


(snip) It is a recognition of what we
do and the value of what we do. It is
a good and solid justification to use
for the continued existence of amateur
radio. Nothing more.


Sadly, far too many in Amateur Radio today have that attitude towards
public service.

Most of do follow the personal commitment to participate in public service
since it is not only a long and time honored tradition but the right thing
to do. That does not change the fact that there is no mandate to do so.

Right...and folks who ain't got no ham license or morse code
test passings don't do the right thing and are bad citizens.

Hoo hah...

WMD

"Dee D. Flint" wrote:
"Dwight Stewart" wrote:
To do the types of public service
we're authorized to do (MARS,
RACES, and so on), authorization
is required.

Sec. 97.407 (snip)


That is an authorization to operate
on those frequencies and an
authorization to operate the station
not an authorization to do public
service. (snip)


"That is authorization to operate on those frequencies" to do what, Dee?
The only answer is "public service" in this context. When it comes to
Amateur Radio, we perform our public service using the Amateur Radio
frequencies. And the FCC is the governing agency that says what is
authorized on those frequencies (not everything is - your license is not a
blank check to do what you want with the Amateur frequencies). For example,
when it comes to the walk-a-thon you mentioned, the FCC has set rules on
what is and isn't authorized in that situation. The same with your power
blackout situation. And the same with ARES. In other words, you are only
allowed to use your radio in situations authorized, and in the manner
authorized. One situation authorized is public service.


(snip) That does not change the fact
that there is no mandate to do so.


Again, the words mandate and authorization are synonymous.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote


Again, the words mandate and authorization are synonymous.


Not in any dictionary I can find, nor in Roget's.

73, de Hans, K0HB
--
Reality doesn't care what you believe.

"KØHB" wrote:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote

Again, the words mandate and authorization
are synonymous.


Not in any dictionary I can find, nor in Roget's.


Princeton University's WordNet...

http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn/

Click on "Use WordNet Online" and enter "mandate." Notice the word
"authorization" right next to it for the first definition. Notice the word
"mandatory" next to it for the second definition. Mandate and authorization
are synonymous in the context used.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
nk.net...
"KØHB" wrote:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote

Again, the words mandate and authorization
are synonymous.


Not in any dictionary I can find, nor in Roget's.


Princeton University's WordNet...

http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn/

Click on "Use WordNet Online" and enter "mandate." Notice the word
"authorization" right next to it for the first definition. Notice the word
"mandatory" next to it for the second definition. Mandate and
authorization
are synonymous in the context used.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/


Circumlocutory, Dwight. I understood your implied intent by the use of the
word mandate and they did, too. ; )

Kim W5TIT

"Kim W5TIT" wrote:

Circumlocutory, Dwight. I understood
your implied intent by the use of the
word mandate and they did, too. ; )


That's a mighty big word, Kim. Unnecessarily wordy? Perhaps.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
nk.net...
"KØHB" wrote:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote

Again, the words mandate and authorization
are synonymous.


Not in any dictionary I can find, nor in Roget's.


Princeton University's WordNet...

http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn/

Click on "Use WordNet Online" and enter "mandate." Notice the word
"authorization" right next to it for the first definition. Notice the word
"mandatory" next to it for the second definition. Mandate and
authorization
are synonymous in the context used.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)


But that is not the context in which you used it. There is nothing in Part
97 authorizing us to do public service. Public service is briefly mentioned
but only in recognition and encouragement. Paragraph 97.1a does not
authorize any one to do a thing.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee,

The belief that a mandate for anateur radio to participate in public
service communications is quite common - just did a quick search on
Google, and II have attached an ARRL reference as well as one amateur
radio club, who both clearly call it a "mandate".

Not sure where in the regs this is, or whether it is an interpretation
of the Part 97 sections already quoted.

73, Leo


ARRL:

http://www2.arrl.org/qst/features-columns.html :

Public Service: Our mandate from the FCC includes the need to put our
knowledge and equipment to use in service to our fellow citizens.
Every month you'll read about what your fellow hams are doing to
fulfill this promise of service to their communities.


Kentucky Amateur Radio Web Site - ARES Operator Registration

http://www.qsl.net/kyham/forms/aresreg.html

Thank you very much for having the desire to serve your community, and
help to fulfill Amateur Radio's FCC mandate of public service in time
of emergency.



On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:08:05 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
ink.net...
"KØHB" wrote:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote

Again, the words mandate and authorization
are synonymous.


Not in any dictionary I can find, nor in Roget's.


Princeton University's WordNet...

http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn/

Click on "Use WordNet Online" and enter "mandate." Notice the word
"authorization" right next to it for the first definition. Notice the word
"mandatory" next to it for the second definition. Mandate and
authorization
are synonymous in the context used.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)


But that is not the context in which you used it. There is nothing in Part
97 authorizing us to do public service. Public service is briefly mentioned
but only in recognition and encouragement. Paragraph 97.1a does not
authorize any one to do a thing.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE