RadioBanter

RadioBanter (https://www.radiobanter.com/)
-   Policy (https://www.radiobanter.com/policy/)
-   -   New ARRL Proposal (https://www.radiobanter.com/policy/27225-new-arrl-proposal.html)

Alun January 21st 04 11:06 PM

"google blogger" wrote in
roups.com:


"Winston" wrote in message
...
I was an Advanced in 1963. I guess, by proxy, I will be able to say I
was an Extra for 40 years. I became an Extra in 1979. What will I
become now.


Think of it as having walked in a very large circle for the past 40
Years.

: ) : ) : )

Do you think that if everyone would just buy five copies of QST every
month the League would give up attempting to license every deadbeat
dad and upgrading every licensee that can recite QST?

Win/W0LZ


Probably an accurate observation Win. All that the ARRL has ever been
interested in for the past 40+ years is more subscriptions to their ad
filled fishwrap. No suprise really as the ARRL's 501-C3 Charter lists
them as a non-profit "scientific" publishing company.

Looks like the Ivy League also has **finally** realized that the
Incentive License disaster of the 1960's pretty much trashed ham radio.

Now their franticly trying to back-peddle the boat before it finally
goes over Niagra Falls. Not much you can do, seeing that 99.5% of young
persons are more interested in Ipod, Blogging, Chatrooms and other
Net related projects instead of this old antiquated hobby of their
granddaddy called "ham radio". (It used to be that ham radio was
unique in that it was the only alternative to making a long distance
telephone call to speak with someone far away. Today anyone can
do the same with a $10-per-month ISP and a PC. The NOVELTY
of long distance communications for the common person has worn
off - this is the root-cause of the issue - ham radio is become
obsolete. )



I didn't realise that people wrapped fish in publications over here. Fish
wrapped in newspaper used to be really common back home in G land, and I
dare say you might still find it if you looked hard enough.

73 de Alun, N3KIP (Ex-G8VUK)

Dee D. Flint January 21st 04 11:36 PM


"Alun" wrote in message
...
(N2EY) wrote in
om:

I did. As they get 7100-7200, any reason to have 'phone below
7100 goes away completely.


Only when:-

1 - all the broadcasters have moved, probably circa the year 2100; and

2 - all the countries have 7100-7200, which might almost take as long


As I recall, the treaty language from the past summer requires the
broadcasters to move out. It's not a recommendation and it's not optional.
I think the year is either 2007 or 2009 (I forget and don't want to take the
time to go look it up).

Since the equipment is already available, I would expect the various
countries to move rather quickly on adding the allocation.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Bill Sohl January 21st 04 11:43 PM


"JJ" wrote in message
...
Bert Craig wrote:
Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra


Oh great, I get to be an Extra by default. I had rather keep my
Advanced, advanced even sounds more advanced than Extra does.


To the average lay person, I bet they'd agree that of the five
license classes, they think Advanced would likly be the highest.
I've never thought the EXTRA name conveyed the true sense
of the license being the highest overall.

YMMV

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK




KØHB January 22nd 04 12:11 AM


"Alun" wrote

It might be more productive if someone could
produce some evidence one way or the other!


I can do better than evidence, I can provide proof....

The governing regulation is §97.527 which allows, but does NOT require,
VEC's to collect reimbursement for examinations. (In other words, there
is no requirement that VEC's collect money for ANY examination.)
Collection of reimbursement is AUTHORIZED but it is not MANDATORY.

Back in the early-mid 90's the ARRL VEC decided not to collect fees for
Novice examinations. This ****ed off the W5YI VEC who actually
petitioned the FCC to REQUIRE the collection of fees. FCC declined to
grant his petition.

73, de Hans, K0HB







Len Over 21 January 22nd 04 12:14 AM

In article om, "Dee D.
Flint" writes:

Actually I wonder if the ARRL petition isn't a crafty ruse. It will look
good to people who want what it proposes but has high odds of being rejected
by the FCC since the FCC has a long history of shooting down automatic
upgrades. They get the "attaboy" for "trying" and can then lay it at the
FCC's door when it fails even though they may want it to fail.


SHAME!

Thinking improper and vulgar thoughts about the ARRL!

Say 100 Hail Hirams as penance and sin no more.

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 January 22nd 04 12:14 AM

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

Alun wrote in message
. ..
(N2EY) wrote in
om:

Alun wrote in message
. ..
(N2EY) wrote in
:

In article , Alun
writes:

(N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376
:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra

The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it
would reintroduce a free licence class.

Not part of the proposal as I read it.


As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains
on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level
licence is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free.

No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole
thing on the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't thought
about this particular wrinkle, as they say that the name is still open
and it could be called something else.

Unless K0HB is mistaken, no such rule exists in Part 97. And since no
new Novices have been issued in almost 4 years, it's a bit of a moot
point.

But it might be a nice thing for VECs to do...

The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the
entry level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF
privileges, but more HF privileges.

Provided the new class that happened to
be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the
current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that

Why?

I thought the old Novice was too easy

Why? The old 20-25 question Novice I took in 1967 at the age of 13 was
adequate to keep me out of trouble, even though my first station was
homebrewed from junk parts. And that Novice license started me on the
path to Advanced in about a year, Extra in about 3 years and BSEE in
a little over 8 years....

And there were many many Novices like me. If an entry level license
keeps the newbies out of trouble and inspires them to learn and do
more, isn't that just about perfect?


Well?

Think about it - what exactly *should* an entry-level license do?


Here's a few suggestions on what they "should" do -

1. When meeting an Extra in person, always salute and show
respect at all times as required by the Geneva Convention.

2. Always call Extras "sir" or "madam" as the case may be,
always using military courtesy. After all, amateur radio IS a
service..

3. If an Extra wants to use the frequency you are operating on,
apologize and immediately QSY to another frequency. The
bands really belong to him.

4. Allot 10 percent of one's income to the League. This is the
the tithe that binds better than duct tape.

5. Always defer to the Extra's desires. If they like a particular
boatanchor, profess to show an interest in the clunker and
praise them for their choice. If they can afford a top-of-the-
line expensive transceiver, express deep envy for same and
congratulate them on being able to go into hock to get it.

6. Above all, profess a deep and sincere love for morse code, the
most elegant and sophisticated means of communications used
by amateurs today. Always say you are working hard on code to
demonstrate your committment to the ideals of the amateur
community.

7. Remember that the Extra is Always Right in technical matters
and never ever contradict him/her even if they make a moronic
mistake about any radio theory or amateur regulations. Their
rank/status/privilege plus that important certificate (suitable for
framing) from the federal government shows that They Are Right.

8. In the Amateur Service try to remember General Order #1 - You
will walk the bands in a military manner being always on the
alert for "the rare one" and always deferring to an Extra's need to
play on your frequency whenever they wish.

9. Never ever use any jargon or phrases that were not used in
amateur radio prior to 1940. Use morse mode abbreviations
wherever possible in written communications...to show a
dedication and committment to the amateur way and that you
belong with them, heart and soul. Even thinking of using 10
codes will get you excommunicated without forgiveness.

10. Always treat CB users as river bottom scum and call them all
bad names and do not permit them to drink from the same
water fountains as you do. They deserve to ride in the back of
the EM bus...as they have for 46 years.

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 January 22nd 04 12:14 AM

In article om, "Dee D.
Flint" writes:

Why single out the ARRL? Almost every organization and our national
political scene is the same way. A few active people get out and vote. A
few active people get out and do the work. These are the people who always
have and always will shape policy. Yet those who are unwilling to vote or
do the work continually whine about how they are not represented. It is the
same thing throughout our society. The ARRL is not unique.


Gasp! You mean that the ARRL does NOT represent amateur
radio in the USA?

How can that be? Doesn't everyone write their Director/Section
Manager who will faithfully and honestly bring their views to the
Big Board?

Strange. LESS than a quarter of all licensed U.S. radio amateurs
belone to the League.

You mean that ARRL represents those three-fourths who aren't
members?!?

Does the ARRL represent any of those interested in becoming a
radio amteur?

LHA / WMD

Alun January 22nd 04 01:00 AM

"KØHB" wrote in news:mGDPb.22507$zj7.7765
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:


"Alun" wrote

It might be more productive if someone could produce some evidence one
way or the other!


I can do better than evidence, I can provide proof....

The governing regulation is §97.527 which allows, but does NOT require,
VEC's to collect reimbursement for examinations. (In other words, there
is no requirement that VEC's collect money for ANY examination.)
Collection of reimbursement is AUTHORIZED but it is not MANDATORY.

Back in the early-mid 90's the ARRL VEC decided not to collect fees for
Novice examinations. This ****ed off the W5YI VEC who actually
petitioned the FCC to REQUIRE the collection of fees. FCC declined to
grant his petition.

73, de Hans, K0HB








I don't think that qualifies as proof. Oh well, never mind.

Alun January 22nd 04 01:02 AM

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in
gy.com:


"Alun" wrote in message
...
(N2EY) wrote in
om:

I did. As they get 7100-7200, any reason to have 'phone below 7100
goes away completely.


Only when:-

1 - all the broadcasters have moved, probably circa the year 2100; and

2 - all the countries have 7100-7200, which might almost take as long


As I recall, the treaty language from the past summer requires the
broadcasters to move out. It's not a recommendation and it's not
optional. I think the year is either 2007 or 2009 (I forget and don't
want to take the time to go look it up).

Since the equipment is already available, I would expect the various
countries to move rather quickly on adding the allocation.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



A triumph of optimism over reality

Alun January 22nd 04 01:14 AM

(Len Over 21) wrote in
:

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

Alun wrote in message
...
(N2EY) wrote in
om:

Alun wrote in message
. ..
(N2EY) wrote in
:

In article , Alun
writes:

(N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376
:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra

The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices,
so it would reintroduce a free licence class.

Not part of the proposal as I read it.


As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices
remains on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry
level licence is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test
is free.

No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole
thing on the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't
thought about this particular wrinkle, as they say that the name
is still open and it could be called something else.

Unless K0HB is mistaken, no such rule exists in Part 97. And since
no new Novices have been issued in almost 4 years, it's a bit of a
moot point.

But it might be a nice thing for VECs to do...

The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as
the entry level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF
privileges, but more HF privileges.

Provided the new class that happened to
be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass
the current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that

Why?

I thought the old Novice was too easy

Why? The old 20-25 question Novice I took in 1967 at the age of 13
was adequate to keep me out of trouble, even though my first
station was homebrewed from junk parts. And that Novice license
started me on the path to Advanced in about a year, Extra in about
3 years and BSEE in a little over 8 years....

And there were many many Novices like me. If an entry level license
keeps the newbies out of trouble and inspires them to learn and do
more, isn't that just about perfect?


Well?

Think about it - what exactly *should* an entry-level license do?


Here's a few suggestions on what they "should" do -

1. When meeting an Extra in person, always salute and show
respect at all times as required by the Geneva Convention.

2. Always call Extras "sir" or "madam" as the case may be,
always using military courtesy. After all, amateur radio IS a
service..

3. If an Extra wants to use the frequency you are operating on,
apologize and immediately QSY to another frequency. The
bands really belong to him.

4. Allot 10 percent of one's income to the League. This is the
the tithe that binds better than duct tape.

5. Always defer to the Extra's desires. If they like a particular
boatanchor, profess to show an interest in the clunker and
praise them for their choice. If they can afford a top-of-the-
line expensive transceiver, express deep envy for same and
congratulate them on being able to go into hock to get it.

6. Above all, profess a deep and sincere love for morse code, the
most elegant and sophisticated means of communications used
by amateurs today. Always say you are working hard on code to
demonstrate your committment to the ideals of the amateur
community.

7. Remember that the Extra is Always Right in technical matters
and never ever contradict him/her even if they make a moronic
mistake about any radio theory or amateur regulations. Their
rank/status/privilege plus that important certificate (suitable
for framing) from the federal government shows that They Are
Right.

8. In the Amateur Service try to remember General Order #1 - You
will walk the bands in a military manner being always on the
alert for "the rare one" and always deferring to an Extra's
need to play on your frequency whenever they wish.

9. Never ever use any jargon or phrases that were not used in
amateur radio prior to 1940. Use morse mode abbreviations
wherever possible in written communications...to show a
dedication and committment to the amateur way and that you
belong with them, heart and soul. Even thinking of using 10
codes will get you excommunicated without forgiveness.

10. Always treat CB users as river bottom scum and call them all
bad names and do not permit them to drink from the same
water fountains as you do. They deserve to ride in the back of
the EM bus...as they have for 46 years.

LHA / WMD


Hilarious!

I have actually encountered someone who actually thought he must be right
and spoke down to me on the air because he had a 2x1 call and I was a mere
1x3. Never mind that I am an Extra (not to mention a BSEE) but just kept my
no-code call. This must come under 7. Not as common as you might think,
this one.

I have met many people who actually abide by number 6, i.e. they pretend to
like the code, but they make only one CW QSO every 2-3 years. Usually, they
are pro the CW test too. They never use it, but think the tradition is
important. I am not talking about anyone here, AFAIK, but they are out
there.

Numbers 1-3 sound fair to me, though, ROTFL!


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:10 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com