"Helmut" wrote in message ...
Hi all, on this thread,

Hello!

"N2EY" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
"N2EY" wrote in message
Jim,
I'm willing to share the Extra sub-bands with a few others.
Only a few?
Fun fact:
When I got my Extra there were fewer than 10,000 others (other Extras,
that
is). Now there are over 104,000 others. Doesn't bother me a bit. The more
the
merrier - IF they pass the tests.

You all are on the wrong numbers, as you might recall, that the airwaves
wont stop ath the borders of your country.

The "others" I wrote of above are other US Amateur Extra licensees.

There are already hundrets of
thousands HAMS worldwide in "Your Sandbox".

It's not my sandbox. It's our sandbox. And all who can pass the
required
tests are welcome! Not just "a few".

Dont you think that beeing a ham
requires only some simple testing?

Yes! The tests for a US license are very simple, yet some people want
them
to be even more simple. I don't think that's a good idea.

It requires GLOBAL THINKING of open
minded persons. All what I could read here on this matter is everything else
than OPEN MINDED and not a bit of GLOBAL HAM THINKING.

Most of what is discussed here is amateur radio policy in the USA.
That's simply a result of it being US based and in English.

So am I. They need to be tested though, and they need to take the test
that other Extra's take.

Exactly.

Be careful ... your "not in my sandbox" motives are showing.

as are your motives.

As I said before - all who pass the required tests are welcome in *our*
sandbox.

What is "your sandbox"?

I don't have one!

Where can I make a test to access 40m above 7.100 ?

Move to ITU Region 2. Or convince your government to change the rules.

The reason hams in Regions 1 and 3 don't have 7.100-7.300 is that
their
governments wanted that spectrum for shortwave broacasting in 1938.
It's
not the fault of hams or governments in Region 2.

Where can I do the test for usage of 146 - 148 MHz?

Move to ITU Region 2. Or convince your government to change the rules.

This is your sandbox, I
assume.

Not mine. Ours.

But all the other Ham frequencies are also the sandbox and
playground of all the hams in the world. Their numbers are a lot more than
just 100k.

And they're all welcome. But how many of them are actually using, say,
7.000 to 7.025?

Like all those Advanced are on the air now. Give me a break.

If they're not on the air, there's no reason to give them upgrades,
is there?

They'll get upgrades, even if they're SKs whose family hasn't
sent in their license for cancellation - so what?

83,000 advanced today who are either SK, inactive or just
don't see the need to upgrade and you expect even a measurable
increase in QRM because some of them may suddenly start
operating in the Extra only segments.

Then just leave 'em be!

That would require essentially maintaining the status quo, which
is unacceptable.

Why? What happens if the staus quo is maintaned?

Good question.

The FCC wants to simplify - the ARRL wants to create a viable
entry level class with meaningful HF privs and reasonable power
limits.

On what relevant statements do you base this?

After careful consideration of Ed Hare's (personal, not ARRL)
comments on the subject on eHam.net, I (personally, not as NCI)
think it makes the best sense as a one-shot deal as a way forward
to a license/priv structure that makes sense for the future.

As a person that would never support a reduction in the written test
requirements, how do you support your rationale?

Do you now support a reduction in the test requirements? Obviously the
answer is yes.

Are these benificiaries of the so called "one shot deal" qualified to
operate at the level to which they will be advanced?

Thats the usual procedure in most countries of the globe to make a one shot
exam.


That's not the case in the USA. We have several classes of license,
with a very
easy and simple exam for the limited-privileges licenses and a more
advanced exam for the full-privileges license. By the standards of
most of the rest of
the world, the USA exams are very easy.

What is being discussed in this thread is a proposal that would give
more privileges to many with limited-privileges license *without* any
more tests.
I think that's a bad idea.

Assuming your answer is yes, what is the reasoning behind those who
come after the "one shot deal" to have to take a more difficult test?

That's the real problem - particularly for the Tech-to-General upgrade.

Effective after Aug. 15, 2003, this kind of upgrade from non-HF to HF- Hams
has occured after the WRC03 throughout the world.

Are you talking about the code test? We're talking about the *written*
tests.

This has been of greatest
benefit to ham radio after its developement. Now as there is young blood on
the bands, it will keep the ITU from knibbling on the bands.

How much difference has it really made?

How many countries have changed their rules?

How many new hams have gotten on the air since those changes?

How does the number of new hams since the changes compare to an equal
period of time before the changes?

73 de Jim, N2EY

Hi, Jim,

"N2EY" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
om...
"Helmut" wrote in message
...
Hi all, on this thread,

Hello!

"N2EY" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
"N2EY" wrote in message
Jim,
I'm willing to share the Extra sub-bands with a few others.
Only a few?
Fun fact:
When I got my Extra there were fewer than 10,000 others (other Extras,
that
is). Now there are over 104,000 others. Doesn't bother me a bit. The
more
the
merrier - IF they pass the tests.

You all are on the wrong numbers, as you might recall, that the airwaves
wont stop ath the borders of your country.

The "others" I wrote of above are other US Amateur Extra licensees.

HF-Bands are not only for EXTRA licensed hams from the US, and the
expression "SANDBOX" means the whole spectrum accessible for radio amateurs
all over the world. In the process of restructuring after WRC03 zillion of
hams will be able to enter this spectrum. Most of them did not pass the "US
GOLD CARD EXTRA" tests. They are given full HF privileges by the
authorities. This will also occur in the United States in the near future.
Do you realy think, your authority will step back from their voting at
WRC03? Do you think they want to loose their face towards those other
countries they were partnering at the WRC03?

They all are your fellow hams. Your friends, buddies, pals, or fellas. Why
don't you try to do the same, as the rest of the worlds hams are doing to
their hamfriends, stepping up now into the heaven of ham radio? Welcome
them, elmer them, if you think they are not skilled enough, and give them
the feeling of beeing welcome in your part of the spectrum. Exept in the US
and a few other countries, you can tell the license class from the callsign.
From all the others around the globe you cannot tell, if they've got their
HF-privileges after the WRC without passing a test. What will your reaction
be? "Go home, this is MY PARTof the spectrum"? There will be poor
operational skills around for a while. Just recall YOUR first months of
HF-operation. No master ever fell out of the blue sky, they all had to take
their lesson and do her homework and practice.

Beeing a ham worldwide includes to be:
CONSIDERATE...never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the
pleasure of others.
LOYAL...offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local
clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, through which Amateur Radio in
the United States is represented nationally and internationally.

PROGRESSIVE...with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient
station and operation above reproach.

FRIENDLY...slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and
counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration
for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spirit.

BALANCED...radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to
family, job, school or community.

PATRIOTIC...station and skill always ready for service to country and
community.

--The original Amateur's Code was written by Paul M. Segal, W9EEA, in 1928.
Nowadays there has to be added: global thinking

Most of what is discussed here is amateur radio policy in the USA.

That's simply a result of it being US based and in English.


And concerning this newsgroup as to be US-based and written in english
language is not protecting you of beeing a ham. Act like, speak like and
write like it is to the honor of amateur radio.


So am I. They need to be tested though, and they need to take the
test
that other Extra's take.

I've heard the same song across the bands after they dropped the CW-test to
5wpm. Did it help anything? Your authority ignored it. Do you think they did
change their habit to please 10 percent of the american hams?



Exactly.

Be careful ... your "not in my sandbox" motives are showing.

as are your motives.

As I said before - all who pass the required tests are welcome in
*our*
sandbox.

What is "your sandbox"?

I don't have one!

Where can I make a test to access 40m above 7.100 ?

Move to ITU Region 2. Or convince your government to change the rules.

The reason hams in Regions 1 and 3 don't have 7.100-7.300 is that
their
governments wanted that spectrum for shortwave broacasting in 1938.
It's not the fault of hams or governments in Region 2.


You are right on this. It will get regulated after 2007 when the 40m
allocation will be 7000 - 7200 exclusive for all hams worldwide. This was
also concluded in Geneva.


Where can I do the test for usage of 146 - 148 MHz?

Move to ITU Region 2. Or convince your government to change the rules.

This is your sandbox, I
assume.

Not mine. Ours.

But all the other Ham frequencies are also the sandbox and
playground of all the hams in the world. Their numbers are a lot more
than
just 100k.

And they're all welcome. But how many of them are actually using, say,
7.000 to 7.025?

Like all those Advanced are on the air now. Give me a break.

If they're not on the air, there's no reason to give them upgrades,
is there?

They'll get upgrades, even if they're SKs whose family hasn't
sent in their license for cancellation - so what?

83,000 advanced today who are either SK, inactive or just
don't see the need to upgrade and you expect even a measurable
increase in QRM because some of them may suddenly start
operating in the Extra only segments.

Then just leave 'em be!

That would require essentially maintaining the status quo, which
is unacceptable.

Why? What happens if the staus quo is maintaned?

Good question.

The FCC wants to simplify - the ARRL wants to create a viable
entry level class with meaningful HF privs and reasonable power
limits.

On what relevant statements do you base this?

After careful consideration of Ed Hare's (personal, not ARRL)
comments on the subject on eHam.net, I (personally, not as NCI)
think it makes the best sense as a one-shot deal as a way forward
to a license/priv structure that makes sense for the future.

As a person that would never support a reduction in the written test
requirements, how do you support your rationale?

Do you now support a reduction in the test requirements? Obviously
the
answer is yes.

Are these benificiaries of the so called "one shot deal" qualified
to
operate at the level to which they will be advanced?

Thats the usual procedure in most countries of the globe to make a one
shot
exam.


That's not the case in the USA. We have several classes of license,
with a very easy and simple exam for the limited-privileges licenses and a
more
advanced exam for the full-privileges license. By the standards of
most of the rest of the world, the USA exams are very easy.

What is being discussed in this thread is a proposal that would give
more privileges to many with limited-privileges license *without* any
more tests. I think that's a bad idea.


Assuming your answer is yes, what is the reasoning behind those who
come after the "one shot deal" to have to take a more difficult test?

That's the real problem - particularly for the Tech-to-General
upgrade.

Effective after Aug. 15, 2003, this kind of upgrade from non-HF to HF-
Hams
has occured after the WRC03 throughout the world.

Are you talking about the code test? We're talking about the *written*
tests.

This has been of greatest
benefit to ham radio after its developement. Now as there is young blood
on
the bands, it will keep the ITU from knibbling on the bands.

How much difference has it really made?

How many countries have changed their rules?

How many new hams have gotten on the air since those changes?

How does the number of new hams since the changes compare to an equal
period of time before the changes?

Jim, it is not the difference in numbers, it is just the fact, that it
happend. Give yourself the cream upon the cake and think positive about the
new situation. Showing anger and agressiv language against those beeing a
"victim" of the restructuring process doesn't bring any good to the ham
family. Not in your country, and not around the world. And where we cannot
do anything against it, it's not worth to argue about it. It is NOT
negotiable.

Here in Europe, we even did'nt have the time to try negotiating. The
authorities of the various countries just signed the bill and thats it. Your
FCC should do the same. This would save you all here on this thread a lot of
nerves.


God bless, stay calm, and have a nice week

73 de OE8SOQ

Helmut

ps: meet me on echolink node # 107658 if you would like to talk.




73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , "Helmut"
writes:

How does the number of new hams since the changes compare to an equal
period of time before the changes?

Jim, it is not the difference in numbers, it is just the fact, that it
happend. Give yourself the cream upon the cake and think positive about the
new situation. Showing anger and agressiv language against those beeing a
"victim" of the restructuring process doesn't bring any good to the ham
family. Not in your country, and not around the world. And where we cannot
do anything against it, it's not worth to argue about it. It is NOT
negotiable.

Helmut, what you say is true but the verbose regulars in this newsgroup
are adamant "America-firsters," that is, what the Americans do is "best"
and therefore that is good for the rest of the world.

The IARU came out with the opinion years ago that morse code testing
should be eliminated from an ITU requirement. The ARRL, a supposed
leader of American amateur radio (with membership less than 25% of
all American amateur licensees) was against it. They aren't really for
eliminating any of it and remain in a middle position, neither for nor
against it. ARRL tries to please too many, therefore there is no real
consensus possible. It reduces to a simple phrasing for American
radio amateurs: All must do as was done in the old days by the old-
timers...because the old-timers imagine they are "the best."

It is a sad situation for the entire world in my estimation, a stubborn
opinion that belongs better in times of two centuries ago. As an
American who loves his country and has done so longer than most
other Americans in here, I am ashamed of their "radio-backwoodsman"
attitudes. Such reflects poorly on us, yet so many remain stubbornly
resolute in an America-first belief, a parochial attitude centering
around themselves with little regard to this nation or the world.

Fortunately for the rest of the radio world (much larger than amateurism)
the USA's negotiations on that rest of the radio world activity is better
and more liberal, willing to listen to other points of view. In here there
is NO other view allowed if it displeases the old-time regulars.

LHA / WMD

Len and the group,

reading here since a few weeks, i do agree with the sight of view from your
standpoint.


"Len Over 21" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
In article , "Helmut"

writes:

How does the number of new hams since the changes compare to an equal
period of time before the changes?

Jim, it is not the difference in numbers, it is just the fact, that it
happend. Give yourself the cream upon the cake and think positive about
the
new situation. Showing anger and agressiv language against those beeing a
"victim" of the restructuring process doesn't bring any good to the ham
family. Not in your country, and not around the world. And where we
cannot
do anything against it, it's not worth to argue about it. It is NOT
negotiable.

Helmut, what you say is true but the verbose regulars in this newsgroup
are adamant "America-firsters," that is, what the Americans do is
"best"
and therefore that is good for the rest of the world.

There is nothing wrong to be patriotic. But beeing patriotic does not mean,
whats good for my countrie must be good for any other one. Amateur Radio is
a global "institution". The rules for AR are set by an international entity.

The IARU came out with the opinion years ago that morse code testing
should be eliminated from an ITU requirement. The ARRL, a supposed
leader of American amateur radio (with membership less than 25% of
all American amateur licensees) was against it. They aren't really for
eliminating any of it and remain in a middle position, neither for nor
against it. ARRL tries to please too many, therefore there is no real
consensus possible. It reduces to a simple phrasing for American
radio amateurs: All must do as was done in the old days by the old-
timers...because the old-timers imagine they are "the best."

Are this oldtime-hams still use spark gap TX? Thats what they should do when
argueing this way. The Americans never would have reached the moon, thinking
this "old days" way.


It is a sad situation for the entire world in my estimation, a stubborn
opinion that belongs better in times of two centuries ago. As an
American who loves his country and has done so longer than most
other Americans in here, I am ashamed of their "radio-backwoodsman"
attitudes. Such reflects poorly on us, yet so many remain stubbornly
resolute in an America-first belief, a parochial attitude centering
around themselves with little regard to this nation or the world.

Fortunately for the rest of the radio world (much larger than
amateurism)
the USA's negotiations on that rest of the radio world activity is
better
and more liberal, willing to listen to other points of view. In here
there
is NO other view allowed if it displeases the old-time regulars.

What makes me frightened is, theat there is no will to change ones way of
thinking into a global range. The kind of "this is my fence, I dont care
whats outside" mentality is not a hams mentality. It reminds me of the
mentality of the ancient "southstates and yankee" disputes in the OLD US. It
must be the genes, keeping fellow hams from going the right, the ham way.

73 de OE8SOQ
Helmut



LHA / WMD

In article , "Helmut"
writes:

Hi, Jim,

Hello Helmut - sorry to take so long to reply

"N2EY" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. com...
"Helmut" wrote in message
...
Hi all, on this thread,

Hello!

"N2EY" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
"N2EY" wrote in message
Jim,
I'm willing to share the Extra sub-bands with a few others.
Only a few?
Fun fact:
When I got my Extra there were fewer than 10,000 others (other Extras,
that
is). Now there are over 104,000 others. Doesn't bother me a bit. The
more
the
merrier - IF they pass the tests.

You all are on the wrong numbers, as you might recall, that the airwaves
wont stop ath the borders of your country.

The "others" I wrote of above are other US Amateur Extra licensees.

HF-Bands are not only for EXTRA licensed hams from the US, and the
expression "SANDBOX" means the whole spectrum accessible for radio amateurs
all over the world.

Wasn't meant that way at all.

My philosophy is that anyone in any country who can pass the required tests of
that
country and get the required license is welcome on the ham bands.

In the USA, parts of some bands are reserved for Extras. The USA has long had a
multilevel license structure, designed to reward increased knowledge and skill
with
more spectrum space.

In the process of restructuring after WRC03 zillion of
hams will be able to enter this spectrum.

How many will really do it, though?

And remember that the restructuring is determined by the governments of each
country. The ITU sets minimum requirements - the signatory countries can have
more requirements for a license.

Most of them did not pass the "US
GOLD CARD EXTRA" tests. They are given full HF privileges by the
authorities.

Sure - that's up to the governments of their countries. And what US hams get is
up
to the FCC.

This will also occur in the United States in the near future.

You mean the FCC will eliminate the Extra class license? How and why?

Do you realy think, your authority will step back from their voting at
WRC03? Do you think they want to loose their face towards those other
countries they were partnering at the WRC03?

I'm not sure what you mean.

If you're talking about the Morse code test, all that changed at WRC03 was
that it stopped being an international requirement. Each country can now
choose whether or not to have a Morse code test. So far, FCC hasn't
changed any US rules.

If you're talking about the written tests, all that changed at WRC03 was
that it stopped being a vague statement about each country setting its
own standards and became an international recommendation with
specific standards of what hams should know. Each country is expected
to meet the standards in its own way. So far, FCC hasn't changed any US rules.

They all are your fellow hams. Your friends, buddies, pals, or fellas. Why
don't you try to do the same, as the rest of the worlds hams are doing to
their hamfriends, stepping up now into the heaven of ham radio?

I've been in the heaven of ham radio for almost 37 years now, Helmut. Last
night I worked an OK1 on 40 CW and an F5 on 80 CW with my 100W
homebrew rig. Got the OK1 on the first buzz but there was quite a pile on
the F5.

Welcome
them, elmer them, if you think they are not skilled enough, and give them
the feeling of beeing welcome in your part of the spectrum.

Been doing that for almost 37 years now.

Exept in the US
and a few other countries, you can tell the license class from the callsign.

Sort of. In the US, the license class *sometimes* tells the license class. For
example, all 1x2 and 2x1 callsigns are Extras, but Extras can also have other
callsigns. I know hams with callsigns like WA3IYC who have been Extras for
30+ years.

From all the others around the globe you cannot tell, if they've got their
HF-privileges after the WRC without passing a test.

You're missing the point, Helmut.

What is being proposed by some is that some existing hams get a free
upgrade to the next-higher license class without a *written* test that is
required of everyone else. Some of us don't think that's a good idea.

What will your reaction
be? "Go home, this is MY PARTof the spectrum"?

No. But I will oppose changing the rules.

There will be poor operational skills around for a while.

That's not the issue at all.

Just recall YOUR first months of HF-operation.

October 1967.

No master ever fell out of the blue sky, they all had to take
their lesson and do her homework and practice.

But first they had to take the required tests.

Beeing a ham worldwide includes to be:
CONSIDERATE...never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the
pleasure of others.
LOYAL...offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local
clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, through which Amateur Radio in
the United States is represented nationally and internationally.

PROGRESSIVE...with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient
station and operation above reproach.

FRIENDLY...slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and
counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration
for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spirit.

BALANCED...radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to
family, job, school or community.

PATRIOTIC...station and skill always ready for service to country and
community.

I agree with all of that. But that code does not mean that I must accept
without protest any and all proposed changes to the ARS.

--The original Amateur's Code was written by Paul M. Segal, W9EEA, in 1928.
Nowadays there has to be added: global thinking

What does global thinking have to do with requirements for an amateur radio
license
in the USA? Maybe the rest of the world should adopt the USA's ideas.

Most of what is discussed here is amateur radio policy in the USA.

That's simply a result of it being US based and in English.

And concerning this newsgroup as to be US-based and written in english
language is not protecting you of beeing a ham. Act like, speak like and
write like it is to the honor of amateur radio.

What have I written that is dishonorable? I have said that *all* who pass the
required tests and get the required license are welcome in *our* sandbox.

So am I. They need to be tested though, and they need to take the
test that other Extra's take.

I've heard the same song across the bands after they dropped the CW-test to
5wpm. Did it help anything?

I don't see where dropping the code test to 5 wpm helped much. A lot of
existing US hams
upgraded their existing licenses, but an even greater number did not. There was
a
very slight increase in the number of US hams. But not a large increase.

Several countries around the globe have dropped their Morse code tests
entirely.
Have they gotten lots more new hams as a result?

Your authority ignored it. Do you think they did
change their habit to please 10 percent of the american hams?

The USA reduced code testing to 5 wpm back in April 2000, even though
the majority of American hams who expressed an opinion to the government
wanted more than 5 wpm.

Exactly.

Be careful ... your "not in my sandbox" motives are showing.

as are your motives.

As I said before - all who pass the required tests are welcome in
*our* sandbox.

See?

What is "your sandbox"?

I don't have one!

Where can I make a test to access 40m above 7.100 ?

Move to ITU Region 2. Or convince your government to change the rules.

The reason hams in Regions 1 and 3 don't have 7.100-7.300 is that
their governments wanted that spectrum for shortwave broacasting in 1938.
It's not the fault of hams or governments in Region 2.

To be even more specific: In the Cairo convention of 1938, certain central
European governments insisted on taking part of the ham band for SWBC.
Their allies in the Far East agreed. The compromise was that Region 2
kept 40 meters as 7000-7300.

And although those governments are long gone, it has taken more than
60 years to change things.

You are right on this. It will get regulated after 2007 when the 40m
allocation will be 7000 - 7200 exclusive for all hams worldwide. This was
also concluded in Geneva.

Because Region 1 and Region 3 SWBC changed.

Where can I do the test for usage of 146 - 148 MHz?

Move to ITU Region 2. Or convince your government to change the rules.

This is your sandbox, I
assume.

Not mine. Ours.

"Ours" meaning "all the hams in the world who have the required licenses" not
just US hams.

But all the other Ham frequencies are also the sandbox and
playground of all the hams in the world. Their numbers are a lot more
than just 100k.

And they're all welcome. But how many of them are actually using, say,
7.000 to 7.025?

Well, Helmut? Do *you* use those frequencies? I used some of them less than 24
hours ago.

Like all those Advanced are on the air now. Give me a break.

If they're not on the air, there's no reason to give them upgrades,
is there?

They'll get upgrades, even if they're SKs whose family hasn't
sent in their license for cancellation - so what?

83,000 advanced today who are either SK, inactive or just
don't see the need to upgrade and you expect even a measurable
increase in QRM because some of them may suddenly start
operating in the Extra only segments.

Then just leave 'em be!

That would require essentially maintaining the status quo, which
is unacceptable.

Why? What happens if the staus quo is maintaned?

Good question.

The FCC wants to simplify - the ARRL wants to create a viable
entry level class with meaningful HF privs and reasonable power
limits.

On what relevant statements do you base this?

After careful consideration of Ed Hare's (personal, not ARRL)
comments on the subject on eHam.net, I (personally, not as NCI)
think it makes the best sense as a one-shot deal as a way forward
to a license/priv structure that makes sense for the future.

As a person that would never support a reduction in the written test
requirements, how do you support your rationale?

Do you now support a reduction in the test requirements? Obviously
the
answer is yes.

Are these benificiaries of the so called "one shot deal" qualified
to
operate at the level to which they will be advanced?

Thats the usual procedure in most countries of the globe to make a one
shot
exam.


That's not the case in the USA. We have several classes of license,
with a very easy and simple exam for the limited-privileges licenses and a
more
advanced exam for the full-privileges license. By the standards of
most of the rest of the world, the USA exams are very easy.

What is being discussed in this thread is a proposal that would give
more privileges to many with limited-privileges license *without* any
more tests. I think that's a bad idea.


Assuming your answer is yes, what is the reasoning behind those who
come after the "one shot deal" to have to take a more difficult test?

That's the real problem - particularly for the Tech-to-General
upgrade.

Effective after Aug. 15, 2003, this kind of upgrade from non-HF to HF-
Hams
has occured after the WRC03 throughout the world.

Are you talking about the code test? We're talking about the *written*
tests.

This has been of greatest
benefit to ham radio after its developement. Now as there is young blood
on
the bands, it will keep the ITU from knibbling on the bands.

How much difference has it really made?

How many countries have changed their rules?

How many new hams have gotten on the air since those changes?

How does the number of new hams since the changes compare to an equal
period of time before the changes?

Jim, it is not the difference in numbers, it is just the fact, that it
happend.

If there is no difference in numbers, why make the change?

Give yourself the cream upon the cake and think positive about the
new situation.

I do!

Showing anger and agressiv language against those beeing a
"victim" of the restructuring process doesn't bring any good to the ham
family.

I see far more anger from others who disagree with me. Your friend Len
Anderson is very angry and aggressive. He is not a ham and would not
make a good ham, judging by how he writes here.

Not in your country, and not around the world. And where we cannot
do anything against it, it's not worth to argue about it.

But maybe something can be done about it.

I don't think the written tests for a US amateur radio license with full
privileges should be made easier. In fact, I think they are too easy.
The *written* tests! Should I just be quiet about it?

It is NOT negotiable.

Yes, it is. The USA has to meet the minimum requirements of the
treaty, but does not have to stay at the minimum.

Here in Europe, we even did'nt have the time to try negotiating. The
authorities of the various countries just signed the bill and thats it.

That's why I live in the USA. We have the right to argue and negotiate. It's
called the democratic process. Some of my distant ancestors invented it
thousands of years ago.

Your FCC should do the same.

I disagree. Our FCC should go through the democratic process, not simply
hand down rules with no discussion.

This would save you all here on this thread a lot of nerves.

Maybe. But discussion is part of the process.

God bless, stay calm, and have a nice week

You too, Helmut.

73 de OE8SOQ

Helmut

ps: meet me on echolink node # 107658 if you would like to talk.

Not set up for that here.

Meet me on 7.020 CW sometime.....

73 de Jim, N2EY


73 de Jim, N2EY

I think the ARRL is doing a super job of taking care of its own cash
cow. Ham Radio as we know it is changing in the interest of progress
with no considration for the hobby. I bet if everyone who subscribes
to QST was to cancel their subscriptions,in other words, BOY COTT the
ARRL, their trend of thought would take a sudden change of direction.
Who cares about manufactures who pay for glossy pages of advertisment
in QST. After all didn't we all used to make our own radios once.
It seems as though the reciepe is to dismantle the hobby of amateur
radio and ARRL is trying to hang on to what ever will keep them going
as money making tax free organization.
Ask your self, what has the ARRL ever done for you personally or for
anyone you know, I bet the answer is zero, nada.
I am glad that I have at least had the past 47 or so years of amateur
radio.
That is how I feel and I just want to voice my personal opinion even
though I am going to get bashed for it. Jim AF1Q


(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
"Helmut" wrote in message ...
Hi all, on this thread,

Hello!

"N2EY" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
"N2EY" wrote in message
Jim,
I'm willing to share the Extra sub-bands with a few others.
Only a few?
Fun fact:
When I got my Extra there were fewer than 10,000 others (other Extras,
that
is). Now there are over 104,000 others. Doesn't bother me a bit. The more
the
merrier - IF they pass the tests.

You all are on the wrong numbers, as you might recall, that the airwaves
wont stop ath the borders of your country.

The "others" I wrote of above are other US Amateur Extra licensees.

There are already hundrets of
thousands HAMS worldwide in "Your Sandbox".

It's not my sandbox. It's our sandbox. And all who can pass the
required
tests are welcome! Not just "a few".

Dont you think that beeing a ham
requires only some simple testing?

Yes! The tests for a US license are very simple, yet some people want
them
to be even more simple. I don't think that's a good idea.

It requires GLOBAL THINKING of open
minded persons. All what I could read here on this matter is everything else
than OPEN MINDED and not a bit of GLOBAL HAM THINKING.

Most of what is discussed here is amateur radio policy in the USA.
That's simply a result of it being US based and in English.

So am I. They need to be tested though, and they need to take the test
that other Extra's take.

Exactly.

Be careful ... your "not in my sandbox" motives are showing.

as are your motives.

As I said before - all who pass the required tests are welcome in *our*
sandbox.

What is "your sandbox"?

I don't have one!

Where can I make a test to access 40m above 7.100 ?

Move to ITU Region 2. Or convince your government to change the rules.

The reason hams in Regions 1 and 3 don't have 7.100-7.300 is that
their
governments wanted that spectrum for shortwave broacasting in 1938.
It's
not the fault of hams or governments in Region 2.

Where can I do the test for usage of 146 - 148 MHz?

Move to ITU Region 2. Or convince your government to change the rules.

This is your sandbox, I
assume.

Not mine. Ours.

But all the other Ham frequencies are also the sandbox and
playground of all the hams in the world. Their numbers are a lot more than
just 100k.

And they're all welcome. But how many of them are actually using, say,
7.000 to 7.025?

Like all those Advanced are on the air now. Give me a break.

If they're not on the air, there's no reason to give them upgrades,
is there?

They'll get upgrades, even if they're SKs whose family hasn't
sent in their license for cancellation - so what?

83,000 advanced today who are either SK, inactive or just
don't see the need to upgrade and you expect even a measurable
increase in QRM because some of them may suddenly start
operating in the Extra only segments.

Then just leave 'em be!

That would require essentially maintaining the status quo, which
is unacceptable.

Why? What happens if the staus quo is maintaned?

Good question.

The FCC wants to simplify - the ARRL wants to create a viable
entry level class with meaningful HF privs and reasonable power
limits.

On what relevant statements do you base this?

After careful consideration of Ed Hare's (personal, not ARRL)
comments on the subject on eHam.net, I (personally, not as NCI)
think it makes the best sense as a one-shot deal as a way forward
to a license/priv structure that makes sense for the future.

As a person that would never support a reduction in the written test
requirements, how do you support your rationale?

Do you now support a reduction in the test requirements? Obviously the
answer is yes.

Are these benificiaries of the so called "one shot deal" qualified to
operate at the level to which they will be advanced?

Thats the usual procedure in most countries of the globe to make a one shot
exam.


That's not the case in the USA. We have several classes of license,
with a very
easy and simple exam for the limited-privileges licenses and a more
advanced exam for the full-privileges license. By the standards of
most of the rest of
the world, the USA exams are very easy.

What is being discussed in this thread is a proposal that would give
more privileges to many with limited-privileges license *without* any
more tests.
I think that's a bad idea.

Assuming your answer is yes, what is the reasoning behind those who
come after the "one shot deal" to have to take a more difficult test?

That's the real problem - particularly for the Tech-to-General upgrade.

Effective after Aug. 15, 2003, this kind of upgrade from non-HF to HF- Hams
has occured after the WRC03 throughout the world.

Are you talking about the code test? We're talking about the *written*
tests.

This has been of greatest
benefit to ham radio after its developement. Now as there is young blood on
the bands, it will keep the ITU from knibbling on the bands.

How much difference has it really made?

How many countries have changed their rules?

How many new hams have gotten on the air since those changes?

How does the number of new hams since the changes compare to an equal
period of time before the changes?

73 de Jim, N2EY

(James F. Aguiar) wrote in message . com...
I think the ARRL is doing a super job of taking care of its own cash
cow.

Do you think all of the work done at ARRL Hq could be done by unpaid
volunteers?

Ham Radio as we know it is changing in the interest of progress
with no considration for the hobby.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

I bet if everyone who subscribes
to QST was to cancel their subscriptions,in other words, BOY COTT the
ARRL, their trend of thought would take a sudden change of direction.

Of course it would. But why should the members do that? What issue
would make
all of the members decide to drop out?

Who cares about manufactures who pay for glossy pages of advertisment
in QST.

I care about one or two of them.

After all didn't we all used to make our own radios once.

Some of us still do.

Is all of your ham gear home made?

It seems as though the reciepe is to dismantle the hobby of amateur
radio and ARRL is trying to hang on to what ever will keep them going
as money making tax free organization.

What, exactly, is ARRL doing that you disagree with? Please be
specific.

Ask your self, what has the ARRL ever done for you personally or for
anyone you know, I bet the answer is zero, nada.

You lose!

Here are some things ARRL has done for me:

- Excellent publications that helped me learn radio theory and
practice
- W1AW code practice helped me improve code skills
- ARRL-sponsored contests, awards and nets are a lot of fun and build
skills as well.
- PRB-1
- Fight against BPL
- Best ham magazine ever printed (QST)
- Representation in Washington and internationally, as well as
information.


I am glad that I have at least had the past 47 or so years of amateur
radio.

Without the ARRL, do you think we'd still have amateur radio? I don't.

I've been a ham for 36+ years, too.

That is how I feel and I just want to voice my personal opinion even
though I am going to get bashed for it.

No bashing, just some questions. You may *feel* the ARRL does nothing
for you, but the reality is quite different.

73 de Jim, N2EY



(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
"Helmut" wrote in message ...
Hi all, on this thread,

Hello!

"N2EY" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
"N2EY" wrote in message
Jim,
I'm willing to share the Extra sub-bands with a few others.
Only a few?
Fun fact:
When I got my Extra there were fewer than 10,000 others (other Extras,
that
is). Now there are over 104,000 others. Doesn't bother me a bit. The more
the
merrier - IF they pass the tests.

You all are on the wrong numbers, as you might recall, that the airwaves
wont stop ath the borders of your country.

The "others" I wrote of above are other US Amateur Extra licensees.

There are already hundrets of
thousands HAMS worldwide in "Your Sandbox".

It's not my sandbox. It's our sandbox. And all who can pass the
required
tests are welcome! Not just "a few".

Dont you think that beeing a ham
requires only some simple testing?

Yes! The tests for a US license are very simple, yet some people want
them
to be even more simple. I don't think that's a good idea.

It requires GLOBAL THINKING of open
minded persons. All what I could read here on this matter is everything else
than OPEN MINDED and not a bit of GLOBAL HAM THINKING.

Most of what is discussed here is amateur radio policy in the USA.
That's simply a result of it being US based and in English.

So am I. They need to be tested though, and they need to take the test
that other Extra's take.

Exactly.

Be careful ... your "not in my sandbox" motives are showing.

as are your motives.

As I said before - all who pass the required tests are welcome in *our*
sandbox.

What is "your sandbox"?

I don't have one!

Where can I make a test to access 40m above 7.100 ?

Move to ITU Region 2. Or convince your government to change the rules.

The reason hams in Regions 1 and 3 don't have 7.100-7.300 is that
their
governments wanted that spectrum for shortwave broacasting in 1938.
It's
not the fault of hams or governments in Region 2.

Where can I do the test for usage of 146 - 148 MHz?

Move to ITU Region 2. Or convince your government to change the rules.

This is your sandbox, I
assume.

Not mine. Ours.

But all the other Ham frequencies are also the sandbox and
playground of all the hams in the world. Their numbers are a lot more than
just 100k.

And they're all welcome. But how many of them are actually using, say,
7.000 to 7.025?

Like all those Advanced are on the air now. Give me a break.

If they're not on the air, there's no reason to give them upgrades,
is there?

They'll get upgrades, even if they're SKs whose family hasn't
sent in their license for cancellation - so what?

83,000 advanced today who are either SK, inactive or just
don't see the need to upgrade and you expect even a measurable
increase in QRM because some of them may suddenly start
operating in the Extra only segments.

Then just leave 'em be!

That would require essentially maintaining the status quo, which
is unacceptable.

Why? What happens if the staus quo is maintaned?

Good question.

The FCC wants to simplify - the ARRL wants to create a viable
entry level class with meaningful HF privs and reasonable power
limits.

On what relevant statements do you base this?

After careful consideration of Ed Hare's (personal, not ARRL)
comments on the subject on eHam.net, I (personally, not as NCI)
think it makes the best sense as a one-shot deal as a way forward
to a license/priv structure that makes sense for the future.

As a person that would never support a reduction in the written test
requirements, how do you support your rationale?

Do you now support a reduction in the test requirements? Obviously the
answer is yes.

Are these benificiaries of the so called "one shot deal" qualified to
operate at the level to which they will be advanced?

Thats the usual procedure in most countries of the globe to make a one shot
exam.


That's not the case in the USA. We have several classes of license,
with a very
easy and simple exam for the limited-privileges licenses and a more
advanced exam for the full-privileges license. By the standards of
most of the rest of
the world, the USA exams are very easy.

What is being discussed in this thread is a proposal that would give
more privileges to many with limited-privileges license *without* any
more tests.
I think that's a bad idea.

Assuming your answer is yes, what is the reasoning behind those who
come after the "one shot deal" to have to take a more difficult test?

That's the real problem - particularly for the Tech-to-General upgrade.

Effective after Aug. 15, 2003, this kind of upgrade from non-HF to HF- Hams
has occured after the WRC03 throughout the world.

Are you talking about the code test? We're talking about the *written*
tests.

This has been of greatest
benefit to ham radio after its developement. Now as there is young blood on
the bands, it will keep the ITU from knibbling on the bands.

How much difference has it really made?

How many countries have changed their rules?

How many new hams have gotten on the air since those changes?

How does the number of new hams since the changes compare to an equal
period of time before the changes?

73 de Jim, N2EY

On 10 Feb 2004 09:52:50 -0800, (N2EY) wrote:

snip

Without the ARRL, do you think we'd still have amateur radio? I don't.

Um, the rest of the planet does not have the ARRL, and amateur radio
is still going strong there.....


snip

73 de Jim, N2EY

73, Leo

Leo wrote in news:1u6i20d300evmf3tgti4gjt5cp20lt8s5e@
4ax.com:

On 10 Feb 2004 09:52:50 -0800, (N2EY) wrote:

snip

Without the ARRL, do you think we'd still have amateur radio? I don't.

Um, the rest of the planet does not have the ARRL, and amateur radio
is still going strong there.....


snip

73 de Jim, N2EY

73, Leo



Ah well, Leo, they still think that the United states is the centre of the
universe (or even the center of the universe, HI!). We used to think the
same thing about the British Empire, and we were wrong too!

On 10 Feb 2004 19:47:06 GMT, Alun wrote:

Leo wrote in news:1u6i20d300evmf3tgti4gjt5cp20lt8s5e@
4ax.com:

On 10 Feb 2004 09:52:50 -0800, (N2EY) wrote:

snip

Without the ARRL, do you think we'd still have amateur radio? I don't.

Um, the rest of the planet does not have the ARRL, and amateur radio
is still going strong there.....


snip

73 de Jim, N2EY

73, Leo



Ah well, Leo, they still think that the United states is the centre of the
universe (or even the center of the universe, HI!). We used to think the
same thing about the British Empire, and we were wrong too!

Good point - in the grand scheme of things, it's the ITU who is likely
to blame for the continuation of amateur radio on a global scale - the
ARRL is but one fish in the big sea (well, a whale maybe, but it's a
big sea!)

BTW - it looks like you might be back in the British Empire sooner
than you think - I saw somebody trying to show you the door a while
ago in another post hi!) No problem, as your usher noted, there's
some great SSB DX on 7.050 thru 7.100 - might be worth it!

73, Leo