"Dee D. Flint" wrote in
:


"Alun" wrote in message
...

Yes, they are living in the past. This has nothing to do with the
merits or otherwise of their beloved mode, simply that the world has
unquestionably moved on and they have not.


The merits of the CW mode have been presented many times and in depth.

It wasn't the "new" hams that came up with RTTY, packet, satellite,
PSK31 and the many advances in ham radio communications. Instead, it
was the experienced hams. The experienced hams have moved on while the
new, inexperienced hams are too often afraid to experience the full
range of ham activities and deny themselves the ability to make
judgements based on personal experience. Too often they instead listen
to other inexperienced hams and make decisions based on incomplete and
inaccurate data.

It was not the new hams that I heard last fall several days after the
major flares and auroras discussing on SSB how they had to shift from
PSK31 to CW as the auroral activity was causing terrible phase shifts
in the PSK31 and how they had to wait to establish SSB communications
until the effects of the flares had passed.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



We have indeed debated the relative merits many times. I could make a case
for other modes, but it isn't the issue. Nor is experience the issue here.
If it were it would degenerate into analysing different kinds of
experience. This in turn is entirely self-defeating, as usually only those
who actually like CW have a lot of experience in using it. OTOH, I have
held a ham licence for 24 years, which is a significant amount of time, but
of course without using CW it doesn't count :-)

The issue is living in the past, harmless and perhaps even admirable in
itself, but not something to force upon others if one has a proper sense of
decency. Morse is an antiquarian mode, dropped by every other service. It
does indeed have advantages, but then so does spark, and so does joining
two tin cans with a piece of string. Any self-respecting debater could make
a good case for standing on hilltops waving semaphore flags.

In my musical analogy the aging rocker in the song 'wore his trouser cuffs
too tight', but he didn't say we all have to dress that way. The 'morse
forever' crew are effectively saying we all have to 'wear our trouser cuffs
too tight' in the style of long ago. Ultimately, it's just an extremely
silly point of view. However, if it weren't so deeply held we wouldn't be
arguing about it. Unfortunately, it seems likely only to fade away along
with those who beleieve in it.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

In article , Alun
writes:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in
:

"Alun" wrote in message
...

Yes, they are living in the past. This has nothing to do with the
merits or otherwise of their beloved mode, simply that the world has
unquestionably moved on and they have not.


The merits of the CW mode have been presented many times and in depth.

It wasn't the "new" hams that came up with RTTY, packet, satellite,
PSK31 and the many advances in ham radio communications. Instead, it
was the experienced hams. The experienced hams have moved on while the
new, inexperienced hams are too often afraid to experience the full
range of ham activities and deny themselves the ability to make
judgements based on personal experience. Too often they instead listen
to other inexperienced hams and make decisions based on incomplete and
inaccurate data.

It was not the new hams that I heard last fall several days after the
major flares and auroras discussing on SSB how they had to shift from
PSK31 to CW as the auroral activity was causing terrible phase shifts
in the PSK31 and how they had to wait to establish SSB communications
until the effects of the flares had passed.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

We have indeed debated the relative merits many times. I could make a case
for other modes, but it isn't the issue. Nor is experience the issue here.
If it were it would degenerate into analysing different kinds of
experience. This in turn is entirely self-defeating, as usually only those
who actually like CW have a lot of experience in using it. OTOH, I have
held a ham licence for 24 years, which is a significant amount of time, but
of course without using CW it doesn't count :-)

The issue is living in the past, harmless and perhaps even admirable in
itself, but not something to force upon others if one has a proper sense of
decency. Morse is an antiquarian mode, dropped by every other service. It
does indeed have advantages, but then so does spark, and so does joining
two tin cans with a piece of string. Any self-respecting debater could make
a good case for standing on hilltops waving semaphore flags.

Heh heh heh. The collar insignia of the U.S.Army Signal Corps
is a torch over crossed signal flags...for the visual semaphores
used before the American Civil War. Both sides used exactly
the same signalling protocols during that War...not a heckuvalot
of "communications security" then!

That high-tech, all-weather commo system called the "telegraph"
was used then, too, but both sides forbade its use for "secure"
(encrypted) messaging because "telegraph lines were too easy
to intercept!" [I kid you not]

Yeah, like with that high-tech landline morse, there were "high-
impedance taps" either side could use to bug the other side?
Anyone just listening to the sounders (with or without knowing
morse) could detect when a tap was put on a line...same
sounder types were used on both sides and putting two on the
same line made a significant change in the sounder sound.

But, the visual semaphoring, rather older than new-fangled
telegraphy, was good, familiar stuff and everyone felt warm and
fuzzy using that...in clear!

A small vignette to illustrate that older ain't necessarily better
and the first commo system (semaphore) wasn't at all the "best."

On-off keying telegraphy was the ONLY way the first radios
could be used for communications. So, on the basis of being
the "first," the morse-aholics want to force "CW" on everyone
forever and ever for "tradition sake!"

Brain-dead emotionalism!

'Scure me, I gonna call up Aurora and tell her to quit messing
around with phase-shifting all that PSK31! Not nice.

Beep, beep...

LHA / WMD

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

"Alun" wrote in message
.. .

Yes, they are living in the past. This has nothing to do with the merits
or
otherwise of their beloved mode, simply that the world has unquestionably
moved on and they have not.

The merits of the CW mode have been presented many times and in depth.

As well as the demerits...

It wasn't the "new" hams that came up with RTTY, packet, satellite, PSK31
and the many advances in ham radio communications. Instead, it was the
experienced hams.

Tsk, tsk. RTTY, packet, satellite, FAX, were all done by the
commercial radio services long before.

Peter Martinez, G3PLX, devised PSK31 in the UK and Yurp hams
did the trials and testings on the air. Took a while before the
"experienced hams" of the USA to try it out.

The experienced hams have moved on while the new,
inexperienced hams are too often afraid to experience the full range of ham
activities and deny themselves the ability to make judgements based on
personal experience. Too often they instead listen to other inexperienced
hams and make decisions based on incomplete and inaccurate data.

Such as that old familiar, "CW gets through when nothing else will?"

Actually, Brian Burke had it correct: "CW gets through when
everything else will."

Sunnuvagun!

It was not the new hams that I heard last fall several days after the major
flares and auroras discussing on SSB how they had to shift from PSK31 to CW
as the auroral activity was causing terrible phase shifts in the PSK31 and
how they had to wait to establish SSB communications until the effects of
the flares had passed.

Oh, that nasty old phase shift!

I guess that the shortwave radio broadcasters doing DRM (Digital
Radio Mondial) are all technically inept because they've been
doing DRM testing successfully for a bit over three years now!

Guess nobody told them about nasty old phase shifts from auroras
and stuff!

12 KHz commercial-military multi-voice-channel SSB has been
working on HF since the 1930s. Guess nobody told those many
HF sidebanders that nasty old aurora phase shift would shut
them down, ey?

Sunnuvagun! and How About That?! :-)

Subject: Temper Fry, Was Able Baker Charlie
From: (William)
Date: 6/20/2004 9:44 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The problem is that Steve demands evidence, but has no right to demand
anything.

I have just as much right to "demand" (which I haven't done) evidence of
your claims as you have to lie in public, Brain.

I have no need or desire to comply...(SNIP)

You CAN'T comply.

And the "need", if you care to call it that, is to set your own character
straight. You don't want to do that, and that's your choice.

...and that infuriates the ex-Marine.

"Ex-Marine(s)" either have a dishonorable discharge or six feet of dirt
over their casket.

I recommend stress management for him before that bulging
artery in his neck explodes.

If the artery is bulging, it's from laughing so hard at you and Lennie
glad-handing each other back and forth, Brain.

It's a stress reliever, NOT a stress inducer!

Keep up the good work!

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Temper Fry, Was Able Baker Charlie
From: (William)
Date: 6/22/2004 5:00 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

I like these new phonetic alphabets. I wonder if there's one for guys
with "real" military experience, but never who wore a uniform.

(N)itwit ZERO (I)maginary (M)ogandishu (D)x

Steve, K4YZ

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: Able Baker Charlie
From: (Avery Fineman)
Date: 6/20/2004 11:19 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The U.S. military does NOT use manual telegraphy for
radio communications.

Yes, they do.

NO. They once did. No more.

Establish your PROOF before you blither out nonsense like that.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Temper fry.

LHA / WMD

Maybe he read it in a defunct magazine or a magazine that carries
articles about a defunct mode.

With his defunct intellect I can understand it...

LHA / WMD

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: Temper Fry, Was Able Baker Charlie
From: (William)
Date: 6/22/2004 5:00 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

I like these new phonetic alphabets. I wonder if there's one for guys
with "real" military experience, but never who wore a uniform.

(N)itwit ZERO (I)maginary (M)ogandishu (D)x

So, geographically-challenged nursie, just WHERE is this
"Mogandishu?" [hint: it isn't in Somalia]

Is that one of those places where you had "hostile action?"

Or was that a location of MARS "amateur headquarters?"

Tell us all about the geography of nursieworld...

LHA / WMD