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#121
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Len Over 21 wrote:
a lot of stuff snipped It's times like this that can bring people together. You and Brian Kelly have something in common. So be it. If you wish to believe that this cannot be done, despite overwhelming evidence that it can and is being done with regularity, then I commend you in the strength of your belief. ;^) This is *so odd* - it's like trying to describe how an antenna works, yet getting bogged down by people that refuse to believe that we can extrude aluminum, that the government would allow people to talk over wireless connections, and besides, it is impossible for electromagfetic waves to travel through the air anyway. At any rate, I am moving on with the project. If you choose to believe that Myself and others are not doing this, then have at it! 8^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
#122
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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:50:46 -0500, Mike Coslo
wrote: Len Over 21 wrote: a lot of stuff snipped It's times like this that can bring people together. You and Brian Kelly have something in common. Realism? So be it. If you wish to believe that this cannot be done, despite overwhelming evidence that it can and is being done with regularity, then I commend you in the strength of your belief. ;^) This is *so odd* - it's like trying to describe how an antenna works, yet getting bogged down by people that refuse to believe that we can extrude aluminum, that the government would allow people to talk over wireless connections, and besides, it is impossible for electromagfetic waves to travel through the air anyway. At any rate, I am moving on with the project. If you choose to believe that Myself and others are not doing this, then have at it! 8^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
#123
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"Mike Coslo" wrote This is *so odd* - it's like trying to describe how an antenna works, yet getting bogged down by people that refuse to believe that we can extrude aluminum, that the government would allow people to talk over wireless connections, and besides, it is impossible for electromagfetic waves to travel through the air anyway. It's not *odd* at all, Mike. It's "The RRAP Way" A line from an old Cosby skit comes to mind, imperfectly remembered, but goes something like this: "And there were these cavemen sitting in their caves watching their kerosene powered TV's by candlelight, muttering "They ain't never gonna invent *radios*"' Or the admonishment of Bokonon, from KVG's "Cat's Cradle" "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way." I'm not into baloons, but I admire the spriit of your project. Good luck to you. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
#124
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#125
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In article , Mike Coslo
writes: If you wish to believe that this cannot be done, despite overwhelming evidence that it can and is being done with regularity, then I commend you in the strength of your belief. ;^) In my industry, we have a saying: "If it happens, it must be possible" This is *so odd* - it's like trying to describe how an antenna works, yet getting bogged down by people that refuse to believe that we can extrude aluminum, that the government would allow people to talk over wireless connections, and besides, it is impossible for electromagfetic waves to travel through the air anyway. When the ARRL sent Paul Godley to Great Britain in 1921 to listen for American hams on 200 meters, at least some of the professionals of the day said it couldn't be done. And they were right, in a way: They didn't know about ionospheric refraction, and that the model they used to predict signal strength at a distance for longer waves wasn't valid for 200 meters. At any rate, I am moving on with the project. If you choose to believe that Myself and others are not doing this, then have at it! 8^) It occurs to me that the problems of cold and high altitude are interrelated. I don;t think high altitude *in itself* is a problem for most modern electronics (hard drives are a notable exception). The problem of high altitude operation is, I think, a *thermal* problem - "room temperature" thin air doesn't carry away enough heat, and components can overheat due to this lack. But if the thin air is forty below, it may be adequate with some insulation. Etc. As for lifting capacity and other problems: They've obviously been solved before. Hydrogen may be usable - the package doesn't have any spark-generating components, and no humans are aboard. ("oh the humanity") The only possibly-insurmountable problem I can see is airspace. And that's curable geographically. As in, you might have to go to Ohio or Indiana to launch. Big deal - that's what minivans are for. I wish you good luck and all success, Mike. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
#126
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Leo wrote:
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:50:46 -0500, Mike Coslo wrote: Len Over 21 wrote: a lot of stuff snipped It's times like this that can bring people together. You and Brian Kelly have something in common. Realism? Perhaps you could tell me, Leo? I've shown that it can and does happen and that a lot of people are doing exactly what I speak of on a regular basis. Believe or don't believe. It is your choice. - Mike KB3EIA - |
#127
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KØHB wrote: "Mike Coslo" wrote This is *so odd* - it's like trying to describe how an antenna works, yet getting bogged down by people that refuse to believe that we can extrude aluminum, that the government would allow people to talk over wireless connections, and besides, it is impossible for electromagfetic waves to travel through the air anyway. It's not *odd* at all, Mike. It's "The RRAP Way" Heh, and a strange way it is! A line from an old Cosby skit comes to mind, imperfectly remembered, but goes something like this: "And there were these cavemen sitting in their caves watching their kerosene powered TV's by candlelight, muttering "They ain't never gonna invent *radios*"' Bill was a wise guy in so many ways. Or the admonishment of Bokonon, from KVG's "Cat's Cradle" "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way." Snort! That one fits. I'm not into baloons, but I admire the spriit of your project. Good luck to you. Thanks. - Mike KB3EIA - |
#129
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In article , Leo
writes: On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:50:46 -0500, Mike Coslo wrote: Len Over 21 wrote: It's times like this that can bring people together. You and Brian Kelly have something in common. Realism? Not to mention Standard Atmosphere tables, models, etc. :-) One is NOT going to reach 100 kilofeet altitude using 8-foot latex weather balloons, regardless of the source. If those could reach it, they would have done so long ago. Hint: they aren't designed to reach way way up there to "near space" altitudes. So be it. If you wish to believe that this cannot be done, despite overwhelming evidence that it can and is being done with regularity, then I commend you in the strength of your belief. ;^) Tsk. Mike is into the bad movie dialogue of years ago wherein a bunch of kids in a barn would exclaim, "We can put on a Show!" and the movie then cuts to many song and dance numbers which are held on a much larger "stage" than could be put in such a barn. :-) "Will and idea" won't work by itself. A little bit of background into the physics will be the baseplate of all future building (and flying) decisions. This is *so odd* - it's like trying to describe how an antenna works, yet getting bogged down by people that refuse to believe that we can extrude aluminum, that the government would allow people to talk over wireless connections, and besides, it is impossible for electromagfetic waves to travel through the air anyway. Tsk. Mike is getting "odd" in the pique-ness of his complaints. "Others have done it," so therefore Mike "can do it." Problem is, Mike has not yet done it. There's a big gulf between "others have done it" and actually getting out and DOING it. Publicity releases made ahead of time need the psychology of marketing to do an effective selling job. A case example is the website of the "Grand Challenge," the autonomous vehicle "race" from Barstow, CA, to Las Vegas, NV. Lots and lots of publicity ahead of time, all the entrants were VERY confident, etc. NONE of them finished. Only about a third of them managed to get started. At any rate, I am moving on with the project. If you choose to believe that Myself and others are not doing this, then have at it! 8^) Fine. MIke, GO for it. Let us know when you've discovered how to balloon things into the world of reality. It's your helium. Ought to be a gas. |
#130
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Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
Brian Kelly wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: Yeah, I like swimming in the deep end. Those of us who have a history of running multidisciplinary engineering projects usually know better . . . your mileage won't vary after you get some history behind you . . Perhaps I should name the project "Icarus"? 1/Icarus, i. e., the reciprocal thereof . . . The altitude is only a small part of the thing. . . . groan! . . . -100ºF is only a small part of it huh? The atmospheric profile shows some interesting things. In the Troposphere, the temperature drops pretty steadily until around 10 Km, then it tends to stay pretty consistent until 20 Km. Above 20 Km, the temperature actually rises somewhat until around 50 Km, at which point it drops again until around 85 Km. At this point it becomes the Thermosphere, in which the temperatures rise dramatically - they can get from 500 to 1500 degrees C. The thermal profiles are by necessity very general. So if temps were a very big factor, I'd want to get the balloon through the 10 Km area pretty quickly, and up to around 30 and a half Km where it's a little "warmer". Nice try no cigar. I'm not breaking any new ground with the idea of launching anything. My intentions are the research and payload integration. Welp, good luck with it Mike - Keep us posted. Will do. By the way I have a ping-pong ball size experimental load for you if you ever actually get past the RRAP bafflegab stage and do a launch. Cockroachs are incredible little critters which reputedly can survive environmental extremes (temps, pressure) for short periods, on the order of a few hours. They're everywhere and finding a sturdy specimen is a no-brainer out in the landfills. When you're ready to go let me know and I'll grab one and name him "Leonard", package him properly for a trip to near-space and pass the package to you. If you break 100,000 MSL we'll ship Leonard off to Sean O'Keefe at NASA so that O'Keefe can pin astronaut wings on Leonard. .. . . 10-4 . . ? - Mike KB3EIA - w3rv |
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