"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

We each must choose our activities based on our personal priorities.

Thank you very much, Captain Obvious.

But do not whine and cry to change the requirements simply because it's not
high enough on your priority list
to put some time into it.

I wouldn't characterize it as "whine and cry" (unless I wanted to prejudice the
audience). Seems more like "this is my opinion on the matter".

Besides if you haven't time to study code 15 minutes
per day, you don't have time to study the theory either.

Is that kinda like when you told your child "if you haven't got room for more
green beans, then you don't have room for dessert either"

As you said, a person must get started to learn anything.
The first ones are difficult for all of us. Like anything else it takes time
to get good.

"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something,
learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is
full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant
without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
---Bokonon in "Cat's Cradle"

"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Sunuvagun!

73, de Hans, K0HB

KØHB wrote:

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...


We each must choose our activities based on our personal priorities.


Thank you very much, Captain Obvious.


But do not whine and cry to change the requirements simply because it's not
high enough on your priority list
to put some time into it.


I wouldn't characterize it as "whine and cry" (unless I wanted to prejudice the
audience). Seems more like "this is my opinion on the matter".


Besides if you haven't time to study code 15 minutes
per day, you don't have time to study the theory either.


Is that kinda like when you told your child "if you haven't got room for more
green beans, then you don't have room for dessert either"


As you said, a person must get started to learn anything.
The first ones are difficult for all of us. Like anything else it takes time
to get good.


"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something,
learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is
full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant
without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
---Bokonon in "Cat's Cradle"

Wow, talk about prejudicing the audience! This assumes that those of us
who support Morse testing simply do it because we had to. With my
problems with it, that would make me the meanest SOB in the valley.

Perhaps, just perhaps, some of us believe that it is a good idea simply
because it is a good idea, a mode that cant be performed by picking up a
mic and talking, or typing on a keyboard, and needs to be learned?


"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions
on the tests! I personally have no use for that! For a strict appliance
operator who is going to buy everything they use and have someone else
install it? No one should have to do anything they don't want to do!
Ditch all those unneeded questions.

Sunuvagun!

Huzzanga!

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the
tests! I personally have no use for that!

Good point, and I agree. If we are going to have incredibly difficult satellite
questions on the Extra written exam, like the following verbatim example.....

Q: Which of the following types of communications may space stations transmit?

A. Automatic retransmission of signals from Earth stations and other space
stations
B. One-way communications
C. Telemetry consisting of specially coded messages
D. All of these choices are correct

......then there ought to be similarly incredibly difficult CW questions on the
Extra written exam, like:

Q: Which of the following alphanumeric characters corresponds to the Morse sound
"di-dah"

A. A
B. B
C. C
D. All of these choices are correct

After all, fair is fair, and the CW mode ought to have test questions just like
all other modes. Thanks for pointing that out.

73, de Hans, K0HB

KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the
tests! I personally have no use for that!


Good point, and I agree. If we are going to have incredibly difficult satellite
questions on the Extra written exam, like the following verbatim example.....

Q: Which of the following types of communications may space stations transmit?

A. Automatic retransmission of signals from Earth stations and other space
stations
B. One-way communications
C. Telemetry consisting of specially coded messages
D. All of these choices are correct

.....then there ought to be similarly incredibly difficult CW questions on the
Extra written exam, like:

Q: Which of the following alphanumeric characters corresponds to the Morse sound
"di-dah"

A. A
B. B
C. C
D. All of these choices are correct

After all, fair is fair, and the CW mode ought to have test questions just like
all other modes. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'll bet you like those schools where the students determine the
curriculum!

Especially important is that those who do not know the material MUST
determine what the material is that they must learn. That is always the
smartest way to do things. The students must educate the teachers.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the
tests! I personally have no use for that!


Good point, and I agree. If we are going to have incredibly difficult
satellite questions on the Extra written exam, like the following verbatim
example.....

Q: Which of the following types of communications may space stations
transmit?

A. Automatic retransmission of signals from Earth stations and other space
stations
B. One-way communications
C. Telemetry consisting of specially coded messages
D. All of these choices are correct

.....then there ought to be similarly incredibly difficult CW questions on
the Extra written exam, like:

Q: Which of the following alphanumeric characters corresponds to the Morse
sound "di-dah"

A. A
B. B
C. C
D. All of these choices are correct

After all, fair is fair, and the CW mode ought to have test questions just
like all other modes. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'll bet you like those schools where the students determine the curriculum!

Not at all Mike. You've persuaded me that there ought to be test questions for
Morse just like there are test questions for each other mode. We seem to be in
complete agreement on the matter.

73, de Hans, K0HB

KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the
tests! I personally have no use for that!


Good point, and I agree. If we are going to have incredibly difficult
satellite questions on the Extra written exam, like the following verbatim
example.....

Q: Which of the following types of communications may space stations
transmit?

A. Automatic retransmission of signals from Earth stations and other space
stations
B. One-way communications
C. Telemetry consisting of specially coded messages
D. All of these choices are correct

.....then there ought to be similarly incredibly difficult CW questions on
the Extra written exam, like:

Q: Which of the following alphanumeric characters corresponds to the Morse
sound "di-dah"

A. A
B. B
C. C
D. All of these choices are correct

After all, fair is fair, and the CW mode ought to have test questions just
like all other modes. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'll bet you like those schools where the students determine the curriculum!


Not at all Mike. You've persuaded me that there ought to be test questions for
Morse just like there are test questions for each other mode. We seem to be in
complete agreement on the matter.

Ahh, appearing to agree with me to discount my point!

I could ace the entire test if asked is dih-dah meant "A". But that
isn't the point.

You did of course leave out my point that you can argue yourself out of
any testing via your argument......

such as....

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the tests!
I personally have no use for that! For a strict appliance operator who is going
to buy everything they use and have someone else install it? No one should have
to do anything they don't want to do! Ditch all those unneeded questions.

0 question test.


- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


..... my point that you can argue yourself out of any testing via your
argument......


No you can't.

I fully support a Morse familiarity test. Cross my heart and hope to die!

I just don't support a "skill demonstration", unless you want to require a
"skill demonstration" of every knowledge area on the test, and deny licenses to
everyone who cannot demonstrate all required skills.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Mike Coslo wrote:
K=D8HB wrote:

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...


We each must choose our activities based on our personal
priorities.


Thank you very much, Captain Obvious.


But do not whine and cry to change the requirements simply because
it's not
high enough on your priority list
to put some time into it.


I wouldn't characterize it as "whine and cry" (unless I wanted to
prejudice the
audience). Seems more like "this is my opinion on the matter".


Besides if you haven't time to study code 15 minutes
per day, you don't have time to study the theory either.


Is that kinda like when you told your child "if you haven't got
room for more
green beans, then you don't have room for dessert either"


As you said, a person must get started to learn anything.
The first ones are difficult for all of us. Like anything else it
takes time
to get good.


"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something,
learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is
full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant
without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
---Bokonon in "Cat's
Cradle"

Wow, talk about prejudicing the audience! This assumes that those of
us
who support Morse testing simply do it because we had to.

That is one conclusion.

With my
problems with it, that would make me the meanest SOB in the valley.

The actuarial tables got you a promotion.

Perhaps, just perhaps, some of us believe that it is a good idea
simply
because it is a good idea, a mode that cant be performed by picking
up a
mic and talking, or typing on a keyboard, and needs to be learned?

It the explaining of why it is a good idea where you run into trouble.

"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing
prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode
questions
on the tests! I personally have no use for that! For a strict
appliance
operator who is going to buy everything they use and have someone
else
install it? No one should have to do anything they don't want to do!
Ditch all those unneeded questions.

The Miccolis argument goes farther. He's advocated dropping all
requirements testing. Why don't you go over the deep end, too?

Sunuvagun!

Huzzanga!

- Mike KB3EIA -

You can add all the CW quesstions, within reason, that you want. Let
CW stand with the other modes in the written test. And drop the code
test.

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

We each must choose our activities based on our personal priorities.

Thank you very much, Captain Obvious.

But do not whine and cry to change the requirements simply because it's
not high enough on your priority list
to put some time into it.

I wouldn't characterize it as "whine and cry" (unless I wanted to
prejudice the audience). Seems more like "this is my opinion on the
matter".


It's still whining and crying no matter how you sugar coat it.

Besides if you haven't time to study code 15 minutes
per day, you don't have time to study the theory either.

Is that kinda like when you told your child "if you haven't got room for
more green beans, then you don't have room for dessert either"


If you don't have room for good food then you don't have room for junk.
However I did not have to tell my children this because I never served
dessert unless there was company and sometimes not even then. I eat too
much junk during the day at work so try to avoid compounding the problem at
home.

As you said, a person must get started to learn anything.
The first ones are difficult for all of us. Like anything else it takes
time to get good.

"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something,
learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is
full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant
without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
---Bokonon in "Cat's Cradle"


I only object to those who wish to change the rules without having the
experience to judge for themselves whether they should be changed. You and
I do not agree on the code test but I respect your opinion as you have
experience in the field (but do not agree with it). When and if the
majority of experienced hams say it should go, then I have no problem with
that. So far that doesn't happen to be the majority opinion among the
experienced hams.

"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Sunuvagun!


Actually people who are not required to learn something at a basic level too
often bypass the activity altogether because they perceive it to be harder
than it is. Therein lies the loss. We will be left with only 25+wpm CW
people on the bands in that mode and everyone else will be too intimidated
to get on. Only the extremely motivated will even bother to try. We will
lose the "casual" CW operator who ragchews at the 13wpm level or so.

I'd like to see people learn a much wider range of "basics" in life not just
ham radio than they do now. For example, personally I believe that everyone
should have a year of art class and a year of a musical instrument, among
other things, to be well rounded. Yet we insist on eliminating more and
more basics in all areas. How is a person to have any idea what they want
to do with their life when they have not had an opportunity to gain some
basic skill in a wide range of areas? Similarly how is a person to have any
real idea as to whether they might like code and wish to pursue it if they
do not have a minimal, basic skill level?

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

Actually people who are not required to learn something at a basic level too
often bypass the activity altogether because they perceive it to be harder
than it is. Therein lies the loss.

I don't buy that line of reasoning at all.

I was never "required" to learn to set up a "Lindy Rig", but saw other fishermen
doing it and it looked like fun, so decided it must not be too difficult, so I
learned how.

I was never "required" to learn to swim, but saw other kids doing it and it
looked like fun, so decided it must not be too difficult, so I learned how.

I was never "required" to learn how to kiss a girl, but saw Clark Gable doing
it, and it looked like great fun, so I decided it must not be too difficult, so
I learned how.

I was never "required" to learn Morse Code, but heard it on the Zenith and was
curious about those beeps and boops, so I learned how (a decade before I decided
to be a ham).

I was never "required" to learn RTTY, but saw other hams doing it, and it looked
interesting, so I decided it must not be too difficula, so I learned how.

You probably get the drift.

73, de Hans, K0HB