On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:05:03 GMT, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The radio station at Ft Greely, Ak was built in 1948 as the first
permanent "Armed Forces Radio Network" station. It was the first site
built with commercial broadcast equipment instead of modified military
gear used at some sites during WW II. The radio transmitter was a gates
BC250 In the early '70s AFRTS claimed to be the only all tube network
in the world.

A former subordinate of mine at the FCC, Don Browne, was an EE and
ROTC-trained AFRTS officer in the late 1960s and after his three
years on active duty with the Signal Corps went Reserve and came to
work for me. He spent several years at the field office and several
more at headquarters. His reserve billet was abolished in an AFRTS
reorganization (even though he was a MAJ) but when a vacancy on the
civilian engineering staff of the AFRTS came up he transferred to
that. He retired as the chief of engineering for AFRTS several
years ago and still hangs around the broadcast business.

AFRTS IS NOT Amateur Radio

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

"cl" wrote in message
o.verio.net...

"cl" wrote in message
o.verio.net...
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
cl wrote:


which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a
few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a
test.

Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get
to 5 wpm.

I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some
understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people.

I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a
lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid.

- Mike KB3EIA -

I agree with you Mike. I hate it when I hear someone say "it only took
me a few days" as that raises unrealistic expectations on the part of
the students. It becomes very hard to convince them that they will
probably need more time than that and to keep them motivated to keep
working on it. The average person needs 30 hours of study (1/2 per EVERY
day for 60 days) to get there. Some will take longer such as yourself
but at least once they have put in the 30 hours, they will be able to
tell that they are making progress even if it takes longer for them.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


NOT EVERYONE - can learn code in a few days or whatever. There are some
things I can't learn in a month where others picked it up right away.
Different strokes for different folks. Each person has to take whatever
time as needed to learn whatever it is they're needing/desiring to learn.
Some fields don't allow a lot of time to learn, while others - such as
ham - do.
There is nothing saying that ANYONE has to learn code overnight or
they're a failure. Just because I was fortunate enough to get enough in -
in that 2 weeks - to pass the exam, doesn't make me a "CW" king. I use
code "rarely". But, I had a chance once to teach some youngsters the
code. One picked it up pretty quick, the others - were a bit slower. If
anyone wants/needs to learn the code to get a license, they will - in
whatever time it takes - IF they start on it and don't give up.
The last part is the key...... To get started and stick with it. As to
time, when they get all the characters down, then they'll have learned
the code. Be it 2 weeks or 2 years.

cl


Maybe someone would care to explain to me and to the rest of the world,
how Gordon West's mini camps held on a "weekend" - were designed to work
to get people ready to pass an exam by the end of the weekend. At least
that is the understanding "I" got from reading the ads. I can't recall if
some of those weekends were just for NO Code Tech OR if perhaps they also
may have been for "code" as well. IF SO, and someone never had code, then
how the hell did they do it in 3 days? Two weeks is a reasonable amount of
time - as it took me. Three days? I don't know...... Is it possible? Even
if it were just for the theory, most I know, can't learn all that in 3
days. You'd have live, eat, sleep, breathe and take the books to the can
with you. IF anyone took one of those weekends, speak up. IF maybe "I"
misunderstood the ad wordage, someone - anyone - feel free to correct me.

cl

It was for no code Tech and students were expected to have read the book
once through before attending the weekend seminar.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Phil Kane wrote:

A former subordinate of mine at the FCC, Don Browne, was an EE and
ROTC-trained AFRTS officer in the late 1960s and after his three
years on active duty with the Signal Corps went Reserve and came to
work for me. He spent several years at the field office and several
more at headquarters. His reserve billet was abolished in an AFRTS
reorganization (even though he was a MAJ) but when a vacancy on the
civilian engineering staff of the AFRTS came up he transferred to
that. He retired as the chief of engineering for AFRTS several
years ago and still hangs around the broadcast business.

A lot of people got caught in RIFS. I worked with an E5 who was
riffed from Captain to E3 a few years before. he decided to stay in the
service so he took the reduction.

I spent more time in the TV end, but I had to take care of the radio
station as well.

AFRTS IS NOT Amateur Radio

I know its not but those old stations were maintained like a lot of
homebrew ham stations. Jury rigged repairs to get back on the air,
running a very marginal signal because you weren't allowed to shut the
transmitter down till scheduled maintenance, which was once every six
months. Repairs done with used parts salvaged from old radios and TVs.
You could see the handiwork and creativity used by former staff and I
always wondered how many were hams. The station manager at Ft Greely
was, but he was a real lid. He truly believed in tuning for minimum
smoke rather than learn how a transmitter worked, but he was the only
one like that I met in the service. Instead of using the station
monitor, he would call his wife to ask how the picture was as he screwed
with the transmitter.

BTW, I was offered a civil service job while at Ft Rucker and turned
it down. I would have finished my active duty there while I filled the
slot, then the slot would become a civilian job again.

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

cl wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...

cl wrote:

A whole bunch snipped.

Those who defy wanting to learn the code jump at any chance to
perpetuate
rumors of code being eliminated.

Similarly, those who promote Morse Code will latch on to any idea,
no
matter how wrong, to claim the Code Exam remains valid.


Leave it in, take it out, the riff raff is already invading the
bands.

My comments with respect to the NPRM were, "What I fear most about
changing the Morse Code exam requirements is a lack of enforcement, and
what I fear most about maintaining the status quo is a lack of
enforcement."

You're right, it will take a while, even if
they were to decide to write a NPRM to do such. If these people
jumped into
Alligator infested waters as fast as they do rumors, the
population
would
take a sudden drop. I'm not a "lover" of code, but I have hold a
license
which required code.

Ditto.

5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few
minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a
test. 2
weeks is not long,

It may be impossible for some. I learned it over a considerably
longer
period of time with frequent practice.

you probably drove longer on a permit before being
allowed to drive on your own. Probably studied the book longer
too!
It takes
little effort.

I disagree. It took a great effort.

For some - it may! One argument I've heard, is that those musically
inclined
pick it up quicker than others, yet I knew some who "were" musically
inclined and claimed to have a hell of a time with it. Reason? I
don't know.
I can't get inside their head.

Steve can. He can even have them incarcerated with a simple phone
calls.

The biggest problem with most is "laziness".

Was that your problem? If you hadn't been so lazy you could have
learned the code in under a week?

Eh - I had the code down in 2 weeks for the Novice exam. AND I'm now
an
Extra. Been licensed since the early 80s.
Yeah, I probably could have learned it in under a week, if I pushed
myself.

That wasn't my point. My point is that everyone is different, and the
length of time it takes to learn 5WPM varies greatly. The time it
takes to learn 20WPM could be lifetimes. Not everyone is even capable
of 13WPM.

Most anyone will tell you - it isn't good to do such. Besides, at
that time,
I was chasing rug rats - so study time was premium.

I've been told that is absolutely no excuse. Nothing in your personal
or professional life can be more important than learning the code.

Most recommendations are
15 minutes to a half hour a day. That hardly makes it possible in a
week. I
used the words " "AT LEAST" 2 WEEKS". Some are faster learners than
others,
that is a given. BUT my point was, you have to get started to learn
ANYTHING. You can't absorb it through osmosis. Back to the timing
thing, I
hope someone from the military can step in to tell us how much time
they
were given to get the code down. I think they had to "Cram".

They've finally left the group. They were paid to learn the code, and
they kept getting paid even if they failed. Of course, insteading of
doing intercept comms, they were peeling potatoes.

Maybe you never
will use it again.

Perhaps. I've found little use for it so far. Maybe once I'm an
old
fart, have loads of time, and wax nostalgic for things that never
were,
I'll take it up and enjoy it, and demand that all learn it.

Probably the same age bracket as me. I do listen to call signs now
and then
on the scanner to pick out the services they represent - if I don't
immediately know who the service is. I do listen some times to code
on the
H.F. Bands.

I don't dislike the code. It was difficult for me to make the few
QSO's that I did make as a novice. I'd like to pick it up again
someday.

There are many things you learn in life and may never use
again, unless you plan to play on Jeopardy. Many people learned
the
skeletal
system in health class, microorganisms in Biology class. It
doesn't
mean
they use it now. Probably forgot it as soon as they graduated.
But,
it was
"required". It's not a big deal people. Once you get past the "do
I
have to"
and start doing it, you'll amaze yourself at how fast and easy it
can
be.

Indeed. I never had the "do I have to?" attitude as there was no
code-free license when I became a ham. Yet it took me about 9
weeks of
daily practice.

And you stuck with it!!!!!!!! You didn't quit, and it got you where
you
wanted to be. OR had to be - for your class of license. 2 weeks, 9
weeks, so
what... you did it. A milestone to be proud of. No one can fault you
for
that effort.

My ex-wife certainly can.

I
DO use code now and then, but not daily like many others do.
Everyone
has
their own thing. Some are into Packet, RTTY, AMTOR, etc, I'm
not...
To each
his own. But we all had to learn "something" about those modes to
pass an
exam.

cl

Use it all you want. I'm against the Code Exam as an unnecessary
government requirement.

Funny thing is, we're all arguing pros and cons and in the end, it
won't
matter. WE do not have control. So, if we're going to debate the
issues we
have no control over, may as well keep it clean. Hardly any of us
know the
other and it isn't worth making enemies over. Certainly not worth
name
calling.... Whether I'm right or wrong, I do value opposing view
points.
Everyone has a right to his/her own opinion. It sure will be
interesting to
see how it all unfolds. I think in the end, we both know the answer
to that.
Pro or con, it is a matter of time. May be a year, may be 5, but it
will
come to pass.

cl

I don't think that's 100% correct. You and me don't write the FCC
regulations, but the FCC looked to the ARRL to put forth modern exam
requirements. The ARRL movers and shakers wrung their hands and bit
"thier" knuckles and said that there was no concensus. So the FCC
plowed ahead with modernization, and the ARRL came up with reductions
in the Morse requirements lickety split. Amazing, all that.

So in the end, if more folks has been exposed to viewpoints other than
the ARRL's, there just might have been a concensus.

Just my opinions, of course, but by tomorrow I'll probably be labeled a
liar, a homosexual, and maybe even a horse thief.

Dee Flint wrote:

Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of
course
you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the
test to
have one set up at that pitch for her testing.

Dee, not everyone has a ham-husband to tell them all of the
modifications that the VE may make to an examination

"cl" wrote in message
o.verio.net...

I hope someone from the military can step in to tell us how
much time they were given to get the code down. I think
they had to "Cram".

Navy RM "A" School, the basic school which trained Navy Radiomen, was 13-weeks
long. Morse practice was 3 hours per day, 4 days per week, but students could
come in after-hours for additional practice. Graduation requirement was to be
able to copy 5-letter coded groups at 18WPM for 10 minutes, with 3 uncorrected
errors allowed.

73, de Hans, K0HB

wrote:
From: "cl" on Sun,Apr 17 2005 11:33 pm

Eh - I had the code down in 2 weeks for the Novice exam. AND I'm now
an
Extra. Been licensed since the early 80s.
Yeah, I probably could have learned it in under a week, if I pushed
myself.
Most anyone will tell you - it isn't good to do such.

Sorry, according to many in here you have to approach it as
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE!!! :-)

I've heard that, too.

Besides, at that time,
I was chasing rug rats - so study time was premium.

Excuses, excuses, excuses! :-)

I've heard that, too.

Most recommendations are
15 minutes to a half hour a day. That hardly makes it possible in a
week. I
used the words " "AT LEAST" 2 WEEKS". Some are faster learners than
others,
that is a given. BUT my point was, you have to get started to learn
ANYTHING. You can't absorb it through osmosis. Back to the timing
thing, I
hope someone from the military can step in to tell us how much time
they
were given to get the code down. I think they had to "Cram".

"Caveat," I was in the military, the United States Army,
voluntary enlistment beginning 13 March 1953. Went from
Basic to Signal School at Fort Monmouth, NJ. Amount of
Signal School time spent on morse code? ZERO! NO class,
NO "cramming."

That can't be right. Why there's a war museum in Canada that has a
code key...

Hi, hi!

At that time the ONLY military occupation specialty
in the Army requiring morsemanship was Field Radio.

Just like Field Day, I'll bet.

Field Radio then required passing 20 WPM, was taught
at Camp Gordon (later Fort Gordon, now the home of the
Signal Corps).

Fort Gordon? Where was Fort Farnsworth?

Drop-out rate was roughly a quarter of
all starting...that I know about. Those that didn't
make it, but had some apitude for electronics, got to
go to Inside Plant Telephone, Outside Plant Telephone,
Carrier, Teleprinter Operator, Field Wireman...or the
Infantry. :-)

"Incoming!"

My Signal School classes taught Microwave Radio Relay
(at a time when there was little of such operational).
Radar was also taught at Fort Monmouth, had the same
basic electronics as Microwave. I got assigned to a
Fixed Station Transmitter site in Japan. Got all of
about a day's worth of on-site "training" to operate
one of three dozen HF transmitters having a minimum of
1 KW output. NO MORSEMANSHIP NEEDED THERE.

Not even to open and close circuits?

NO MORSE
USED at the third-largest station in the Army Command
and Administrative Network.

That's when the US Army started it's downward slide and people now have
to go to Canadian war museums to get "thier" morse code fixes.

Maybe you never will use it again.

Perhaps. I've found little use for it so far. Maybe once I'm an
old
fart, have loads of time, and wax nostalgic for things that never
were,
I'll take it up and enjoy it, and demand that all learn it.

Probably the same age bracket as me. I do listen to call signs now
and
then
on the scanner to pick out the services they represent - if I don't
immediately know who the service is. I do listen some times to code
on
the
H.F. Bands.

...or what you think is morse. :-) There's very LITTLE
morse code on HF nowadays...EXCEPT inside the ham bands.

There are many things you learn in life and may never use
again, unless you plan to play on Jeopardy.

Tell that to Ken Jennings! :-)

That guy could probably copy psk31. He's a machine.

bb

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: "cl" on Sun,Apr 17 2005 11:33 pm

Eh - I had the code down in 2 weeks for the Novice exam. AND I'm
now
an
Extra. Been licensed since the early 80s.
Yeah, I probably could have learned it in under a week, if I
pushed
myself.
Most anyone will tell you - it isn't good to do such.

Sorry, according to many in here you have to approach it as
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE!!!

Actually, Lennie, YOU are the only one making that assertion.

Nope, in-between homosexual and pedophilia inuendo, you have made such
assertions. So that makes lie #25.

Phil Kane wrote:

AFRTS IS NOT Amateur Radio

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

Hi! Awesome! Can I borrow that sometime?

K=D8HB wrote:
"cl" wrote in message
o.verio.net...

I hope someone from the military can step in to tell us how
much time they were given to get the code down. I think
they had to "Cram".

Navy RM "A" School, the basic school which trained Navy Radiomen, was
13-weeks
long. Morse practice was 3 hours per day, 4 days per week, but
students could
come in after-hours for additional practice. Graduation requirement
was to be
able to copy 5-letter coded groups at 18WPM for 10 minutes, with 3
uncorrected
errors allowed.

And they had a choice of Morse Code or Farnsworth Code, and could vary
the pitch.

Hi!

What was the wash-out rate? What happened to the wash-outs?