Dan:

Actually, this "Dolt" is just tired of the standard ancient amateur
with his outdated equip taking up bandspace and passing gas...

We need new blood just to bring back some excitement and some future
progress to the amateur hobby... and we need to get rid of those who
oppose and stand in the way of progress... yesterday would not be too
soon for these changes...

John

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
link.net...
This dolt is not only anti cw, but he is anti Amateur Radio. Why
does this NOT surprise me?

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Learn the code-get the license-forget cw and lobby to ditch the
damn ancient waste of time...

Join NCI No-Code International.
Write your congressman and complain public funds are supporting
only a handful of code using radio hobbyists!

Complain, complain, complain...

John

wrote in message
oups.com...

Michael Coslo wrote:
What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.


2. Not having to learn Morse code.

IOW, is standing on principle, and refusing to learn Morse code a
better
thing than learning it to get the priveliges?

Waiting for the code test to go away to get HF privs kinda reminds
me
of my old uncle who until the day he passed away ten or so years
ago
was still waiting for his Pennsylvania Railroad stock go back up
and
he'd make a wad.


- Mike KB3EIA -

w3rv

Dan:

That certainly sounds as exciting as a visit to a rest home, which, by
the way, is something I attempt to avoid at all costs...

.... only another 80 year old can really appreciate another 80 year
old...

John

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
link.net...
I talk with a lot of late 80 and early 90 year old hams. You need
to wake up and smell the roses me boy.

Dan/W4NTI

"mopathetic didn't camp at Dayton! CHICKEN BOY"
wrote in message
news:xehy40rgttpme82.290620051950@kirk...
let me see-the mean age for hams is approx 65-if we add 25 years
65+25=90

since the lifespan of men is shorter than females-you are joking
right

have you QSO'ed with many 90 year old hams in resthomes-that must
be exciting


"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"mopathetic didn't camp at Dayton! CHICKEN BOY"
wrote in message
news:jydrrl3q7ldnc5k.290620051907@kirk...
exactly

but only a couple of guys here even have a clue

that is a problem

"ham radio truth" wrote in message
groups.com...

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.

2. Not having to learn Morse code.

IOW, is standing on principle, and refusing to learn Morse code
a better
thing than learning it to get the priveliges?

- Mike KB3EIA -

YES to CW or NO to CW makes no difference whatsoever Mike.
Not at this stage of the game. Ham radio is a dying hobby,
period.

The average age of the USA ham operator is a staggering 64
Years.
There are FIVE TIMES more hams dying off per month than there
are new hams comming into the hobby and license renewals
combined.

80% of young people 2-day have text messaging cellphones.
Also there's AOL Instant Messenger or similar Chatroom software
plus Apple IPOD Podcasting and similar technology. (just wait
till
the wireless IPOD hits around October 2005 just in time for
xmas!)

What young person, apart from the occasional geek, would want to
invest time and money in archaic, obsolete, analog technology
based
ham radio in 2005? Oh yes there will be a few, but for the most
part
today's young people wouldn't know ham radio from CB and could
not care less either.

Tune across HF any evening and tell me how many young people
you hear on SSB. Most of the guys I hear on 75 Meters are long
retired and most callsigns I recall from just 10 Years ago are
either
in the local nursing home or 6 feet under the earth.

Read the handwriting boys. At this rate Ham Radio will be dead
by 2030.

Well most of the hams I know, including myself, have pretty good
odds of still being alive and kicking in 2030.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dan:

Well, the 60 to 90 crowd have the bands now, they think they can live
forever and protect their status--we will see--won't we?

In the meantime, when new "would be hams" cite the code and leave, I
am recommending they hold off and see what is going to happen in the
future, I point out if the code is dropped they would change their
minds...

John

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"ham radio truth" wrote in message
groups.com...

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.

2. Not having to learn Morse code.

IOW, is standing on principle, and refusing to learn Morse code a
better
thing than learning it to get the priveliges?

- Mike KB3EIA -

YES to CW or NO to CW makes no difference whatsoever Mike.
Not at this stage of the game. Ham radio is a dying hobby, period.

The average age of the USA ham operator is a staggering 64 Years.
There are FIVE TIMES more hams dying off per month than there
are new hams comming into the hobby and license renewals combined.


So? we concentrate on the group of folks that have the TIME to do
Ham Radio these days. The retired or soon to be retired group. Let
the youth text all they want, chase women, find drugs....so what.


80% of young people 2-day have text messaging cellphones.
Also there's AOL Instant Messenger or similar Chatroom software
plus Apple IPOD Podcasting and similar technology. (just wait till
the wireless IPOD hits around October 2005 just in time for xmas!)


None of which has a thing to do with Ham Radio.

What young person, apart from the occasional geek, would want to
invest time and money in archaic, obsolete, analog technology based
ham radio in 2005? Oh yes there will be a few, but for the most
part
today's young people wouldn't know ham radio from CB and could
not care less either.


Ham Radio is and always has been a group of radio geeks. Only
recently has this become a "problem". I see no problem with a much
smaller, more dedicated group. We don't need 700,000 licensed hams
if only a small percentage are actually licensed. As a matter of
fact I believe you will find that the membership of the ARRL are the
REAL ACTIVE AMATEURS. Not the give a way Tech ticket. These are
the folks that wanted a free cell phone. Go for it.
Real hams know what this hobby/service is supposed to be. The rest
of you are at the bottom of the learning curve.

Perhaps if you would pay attention to those that have been there and
KNOW what its about....your life would be a bit easier (?).



Tune across HF any evening and tell me how many young people
you hear on SSB. Most of the guys I hear on 75 Meters are long
retired and most callsigns I recall from just 10 Years ago are
either
in the local nursing home or 6 feet under the earth.


Which is exactly how 75 has been since the 1950s. Or earlier for
all I know.

YOUR POINT IS?


Read the handwriting boys. At this rate Ham Radio will be dead
by 2030.

No it wont. Changed.....but not dead. You of course will be long
gone. Good riddance.

Dan/W4NTI

"Kim" wrote in message
m...
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.


2. Not having to learn Morse code.

IOW, is standing on principle, and refusing to learn Morse code a better
thing than learning it to get the priveliges?

- Mike KB3EIA -


Hi Mike:

I think you know I don't "hate" Morse Code. I, personally, never really
wished to try it out; just like I have never really tried SCTV, anything
digital (except for APRS--if that can be considered digital), ATV, etc. I
think you get my point. Since I have ever first perused this newsgroup,
except for a few real jerks, I'd believe that most of "us" who just don't
wander into other means of communication--including Morse Code--are pretty
much the same as I am. I absolutely support those who use the mode (as I
do
anyone who uses and/or invents any other modes), am willing to honor the
tradition of Morse Code (as I honor the tradition of other steadfast
things
in amateur radio), and hold no animosity for anyone--OTHER than the
"idiots"
on both sides of the floor (as it would be stated in political terms :o).

For me, it was never a matter of wanting HF privileges that much, and I
learned the 5wpm needed to get the privileges I was happy with. So, could
you do me a favor? Please rethink your phrase "Morse Code Haters." I
don't
think most of us feel that strongly about it.

Kim W5TIT



I'm sorry.....knowing full well she has me deep sixed, I just have to
comment.....

What the heck is SCTV? Is that a TV show? Or maybe she means Slow Scan
TV?? SSTV.......Hmmmmm.

Then...."APRS if that can be considered digital".

Amazing.....and she has a license?

Amazing.

Dan/W4NTI

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
Kim wrote:

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.


2. Not having to learn Morse code.

IOW, is standing on principle, and refusing to learn Morse code a better
thing than learning it to get the priveliges?

- Mike KB3EIA -



Hi Mike:

I think you know I don't "hate" Morse Code. I, personally, never really
wished to try it out; just like I have never really tried SCTV, anything
digital (except for APRS--if that can be considered digital), ATV, etc.
I
think you get my point. Since I have ever first perused this newsgroup,
except for a few real jerks, I'd believe that most of "us" who just don't
wander into other means of communication--including Morse Code--are
pretty
much the same as I am. I absolutely support those who use the mode (as I
do
anyone who uses and/or invents any other modes), am willing to honor the
tradition of Morse Code (as I honor the tradition of other steadfast
things
in amateur radio), and hold no animosity for anyone--OTHER than the
"idiots"
on both sides of the floor (as it would be stated in political terms :o).

For me, it was never a matter of wanting HF privileges that much, and I
learned the 5wpm needed to get the privileges I was happy with. So,
could
you do me a favor? Please rethink your phrase "Morse Code Haters." I
don't
think most of us feel that strongly about it.

Yeah, "haters" was the wrong choice of word in retrospect.

- Mike KB3EIA -



No it's not Mike. There are Morse Code haters out there. Lennie the
loser is one of the main ones.

Dan/W4NTI

Speaking of AC plugs Lennie the loser....how about doing us all a favor and
show your "eeee" competence at a level we all know you are at? Stick your
index finger and the little finger into the AC plug and write us a technical
report on the results.

Putz.

Dan/W4NTI

wrote in message
oups.com...
From: Michael Coslo on Thurs 30 Jun 2005 08:19

Kim wrote:

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.


2. Not having to learn Morse code.

IOW, is standing on principle, and refusing to learn Morse code a better
thing than learning it to get the priveliges?


I think you know I don't "hate" Morse Code. I, personally, never really
wished to try it out; just like I have never really tried SCTV, anything
digital (except for APRS--if that can be considered digital), ATV, etc.
I
think you get my point. Since I have ever first perused this newsgroup,
except for a few real jerks, I'd believe that most of "us" who just
don't
wander into other means of communication--including Morse Code--are
pretty
much the same as I am. I absolutely support those who use the mode (as
I do
anyone who uses and/or invents any other modes), am willing to honor the
tradition of Morse Code (as I honor the tradition of other steadfast
things
in amateur radio), and hold no animosity for anyone--OTHER than the
"idiots"
on both sides of the floor (as it would be stated in political terms
:o).

For me, it was never a matter of wanting HF privileges that much, and I
learned the 5wpm needed to get the privileges I was happy with. So,
could
you do me a favor? Please rethink your phrase "Morse Code Haters." I
don't
think most of us feel that strongly about it.

Yeah, "haters" was the wrong choice of word in retrospect.

No, it wasn't "wrong." It got exactly what you wanted to get
in here...more polarization on a topic already rife with
polarized "opinions" and personal pontifications.

It is no different than the self-ascribed "representative" of ALL
radio amateurs saying a challenger "hates ham radio" when all the
challenger did was dislike the opinion of the "representative."

The hobby activity of amateur radio is supposedly about personal
recreation of the hobbyist (which includes personal daydreams of
being in a "service to the nation"...if the daydreamer is a bit
over the edge). That means they get the OPTION of doing anything
they want as allowed by the FCC.

Ya know what? The FCC has long since abandoned any necessity of
hams being required by law to show evidence of "CW" contacts in
a year's time! [How about that...and...Sunnuvagun!] Every
single allocated mode is perfectly optional to use at the
licensee's OPTION!

Isn't that "terrible!" OPTION! Why, with all the nastywords
and implied impropriety of all those who do not choose the
beloved, honored, revered, treasured, adored "CW," all those
who don't bother with "CW" ought to turn in their ham licenses
and make public apologies for not "holding tradition!"

But, the olde-fahrts still shout and holler for "tradition"
and demands to keep the test for "CW" that is adored, treasured,
revered, honored, beloved, etc., because "that is how it should
be!" [in their tight little fantasy world] Every ham, according
to those olde-fahrt wunderkinder of long-ago days, MUST do good
morsemanship! :-)

One MUST "show dedication, etc., to the 'amateur community'" by
doing as all those olde-fahrts DEMAND. ["it is only right" cry
the olde-fahrts] They think they "rule." No problem. Well,
one problem...no forwarding address to send all that "dedication
and committment" to the "community" as required by the unwritten
law...

Meanwhile, the newcomers (who don't seem to count to the olde-
fahrts or the league of distinguished, nearly extinguished
gentlemen of Newington) are getting IN to amateur radio through
the NO-CODE-TEST class. Many more than are "flocking" to the
"CW faithful" churches of the lesser-day saints of "CW." They
take the OPTIONS available by law. Nearly half of all ham
licensees by now...

Option is no failure.

Continue to shun AC and keep the polarization going. Ask them
pre-loaded questions.

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
Kim wrote:

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.


2. Not having to learn Morse code.

IOW, is standing on principle, and refusing to learn Morse code a better
thing than learning it to get the priveliges?

- Mike KB3EIA -



Hi Mike:

I think you know I don't "hate" Morse Code. I, personally, never really
wished to try it out; just like I have never really tried SCTV, anything
digital (except for APRS--if that can be considered digital), ATV, etc.
I
think you get my point. Since I have ever first perused this newsgroup,
except for a few real jerks, I'd believe that most of "us" who just
don't
wander into other means of communication--including Morse Code--are
pretty
much the same as I am. I absolutely support those who use the mode (as
I do
anyone who uses and/or invents any other modes), am willing to honor the
tradition of Morse Code (as I honor the tradition of other steadfast
things
in amateur radio), and hold no animosity for anyone--OTHER than the
"idiots"
on both sides of the floor (as it would be stated in political terms
:o).

For me, it was never a matter of wanting HF privileges that much, and I
learned the 5wpm needed to get the privileges I was happy with. So,
could
you do me a favor? Please rethink your phrase "Morse Code Haters." I
don't
think most of us feel that strongly about it.

Yeah, "haters" was the wrong choice of word in retrospect.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Besides that, Kim, you did what people like myself and Mike and so many
others advocate. That is you took the testing in place at the time that
was required for the privileges that you wanted. You didn't sit on your
hands and wait for the testing procedure to change.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Yes she did....then proceeded to show us how ignorant she was/is.

Proof positive of the dumbing down of Amateur Radio....IMHO.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan:

Now I ask you, "What boob would use SSTV?"

A webcam on a computer, compressing and digitizing the video and then
converting to an audio signal and finally delivering it to a
transceiver, to be picked up and decoded at the other end and fed to a
soundcard/computer monitor produces a MUCH clearer sharper and more
fps... SSTV is for dinosaurs!!!

Wake up, it is already 2005!

John

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Kim" wrote in message
m...
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.


2. Not having to learn Morse code.

IOW, is standing on principle, and refusing to learn Morse code a
better
thing than learning it to get the priveliges?

- Mike KB3EIA -


Hi Mike:

I think you know I don't "hate" Morse Code. I, personally, never
really
wished to try it out; just like I have never really tried SCTV,
anything
digital (except for APRS--if that can be considered digital), ATV,
etc. I
think you get my point. Since I have ever first perused this
newsgroup,
except for a few real jerks, I'd believe that most of "us" who just
don't
wander into other means of communication--including Morse Code--are
pretty
much the same as I am. I absolutely support those who use the mode
(as I do
anyone who uses and/or invents any other modes), am willing to
honor the
tradition of Morse Code (as I honor the tradition of other
steadfast things
in amateur radio), and hold no animosity for anyone--OTHER than the
"idiots"
on both sides of the floor (as it would be stated in political
terms :o).

For me, it was never a matter of wanting HF privileges that much,
and I
learned the 5wpm needed to get the privileges I was happy with.
So, could
you do me a favor? Please rethink your phrase "Morse Code Haters."
I don't
think most of us feel that strongly about it.

Kim W5TIT



I'm sorry.....knowing full well she has me deep sixed, I just have
to comment.....

What the heck is SCTV? Is that a TV show? Or maybe she means
Slow Scan TV?? SSTV.......Hmmmmm.

Then...."APRS if that can be considered digital".

Amazing.....and she has a license?

Amazing.

Dan/W4NTI

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote


What the heck is SCTV? Is that a TV show?

Yup. "Second City TV" 70's-80's with John Candy and others. Hilarious stuff.
My favorite was the dimwit McKenzie brothers from "The Great White North"
segment. Basically the Canadian version of rednecks, but more so. Eh, hoser?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
Dee Flint wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

an_old_friend wrote:

Michael Coslo wrote:


What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.


2. Not having to learn Morse code.


YMMV

I do not face that choice at all Itried for years to learn

Was there a specific problem? I had a lot of trouble with Tinnitus, and
getting hung up on one letter, and letting the rest of the message go by
("flying behind the plane")

- Mike KB3EIA -


As I have mentioned before, my ex had a 70% hearing loss in each ear and
tinnitus in both ears. Yet he passed the code. He just cranked the
volume up and used headphones. If he can do it, anyone can.

I won't deny it can be done - obviously, since my problems are similar. I
doubt I'll ever be proficient at Morse though. To get an idea of what it
is like for me, imagine concentrating as hard as you can on something.
Can I do it? Sure. But not for extended periods.

Certainly turning up the headphones helps, but the levels I use are
fatiguing, and they sometimes annoy the other ops.

- Mike KB3EIA -


I understand that completely. If my ex was practicing code without the
headphones, I had to leave not only the room, but that floor of the house.
If he was using headphones, I could hear it more than well enough to copy
his practice sessions. The point is that he passed the test.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Exactly Dee.....these anti-code dunderheads don't get it. It is mostly a
matter of dedication and persistence to learn Morse. They obviously have
neither.

No it is matter of law, by what power does the FCC have to continue
this Morse Code Welfare program. Nothing in the constitution, and
nothing anymore in the the treaty. and no one has shown how any
provision of the sonstitution allows the FCC to without access to hf
based on the skill in the mode. The FCC has ruled in the past that it
does not have a case to make.

But ultimately one thing many of them do lack is desire, desire to
learn Morse is a requirement it is indeed one of the most vital
requirement to learn the mode.

Why don't they have this desire? I don't know. but maybe you should
look to seeling the mode better, if you think it is important



Dan/W4NTI