Alun:

I don't think "they" really see that much of a real need for a code test
for extras as much as they realize the covers have been pulled and code
will fall. And, they still want to fight and hang on to any little bit of
"good old buddy club" they might be able to maintain.

It is not surprising to find people hanging on to their self-serving
interests as a dog to a bone. You certainly get a good picture of the
fabric of individuals characters as this all plays out... trouble is, in
this "dumbed down society" you wonder how many can even realize the
importance of peoples motivations.

Those who have sold their soul to the devil now go on grasping at straws,
still convinced they have people fooled into thinking they are discussing
real reason on why code is so necessary--and "they" are so intelligent no
one can see their self-serving motives, they are just little selfish
individuals wanting to have a little private hobby at the expense of the
whole of society, gee, that is unique--isn't it?

The lies are the elephant in the china closet, and many are blind to its'
existence... many are so old they realize they are on their way out, and
what is their dignity compared to being able to "keep a private beach" on
the radio bands.

John

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 11:37:40 +0000, Alun L. Palmer wrote:

wrote in news:1123648804.590620.207760
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

Alun, it's through the Search buttons on the Home page. But, you
can go direct via:

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/ecfs

That gets you to the ECFS main page. On the left of that you will
see several links which will supply you with the data page where
you must fill in the required items...when that is done you have a
choice of uploading a prepared file (WordPerfect, MS Word, or PDF)
or to make your comment on-line (watch line length, no over-run or
it will look funny). I use WordPerfect and convert it to PDF with
Acrobat 4 (full version) and upload that.

If you want a copy of FCC 05-143, the document spelling out what
the NPRM is, it is the very first document in the docket, entered
on 15 July 2005.

You will get a data-begin page with every choice of links from the
main ECFS page. To see all of the Docket entries, just enter
05-235 in the upper left corner box and press Return/Enter. That
yields a list of EVERY entry under that docket. You can get to
an individual day date entry by filling in the numeric date fields
in the middle of the data-begin page...or an individual's entry
if you know the exact spelling of their name used on their entry.

had fun




I have now entered my comment in favour of the NPRM. Of the last 50
comments, 24 are in favour, 17 against, and 9 want to keep a code test for
the Extra only. I suppose that does mean that a slim majority (of the last
50) want to keep a code test for the Extra but not the General, but 48%
want the code test eliminated. Unfortunately I don't have time to read all
1,319 comments!

Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur Championships!

As of midnight EDT on 9 Aug 05, WT Docket 05-235
Comments on Test Element 1 Elimination/Retention a

Total 1316

Indeterminate/duplicates (note 1) 53

Unambiguously Against NPRM (note 2) 362 28.66%
Unambiguously For NPRM (note 3) 730 57.80%
Code test ONLY for Extras (note 4) 171 13.54%


Notes:

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, and one foreign citizen submission.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentage figures are calculated against the Total less
the number of Indeterminate entries. For all up to
midnight of 9 Aug 05 that Total would be 1263.

A growing number of keep-code-test-for-Extra entries prompted
a review of all entries up to 9 Aug 05 and revision of the
previous postings of Against and Indeterminate numbers.
This was exacerbated by 14 entries made into the various day
listings by the FCC after midnight of the days given. Total
entry numbers are correct to the FCC-given totals up to and
including 9 Aug 05. Having read each and every entry made
so far, new entries made in previous day's listings can be
spotted without fail and tallied groups corrected as need be.

9 August 2005 is the 15th day of submitted Comments. A notice
about FCC 05-143 or Docket WT 05-235 has NOT YET BEEN MADE in
the Federal Register so it is unknown if these 15 days of Comments
will be accepted by the Commission for decision on any Report and
Order. Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being
made, like it or not.

dit dah

From: "Alun L. Palmer" on Wed 10 Aug 2005 11:37

wrote in news:1123648804.590620.207760
:


I have now entered my comment in favour of the NPRM.

Way to go, Alun! And to Hans Brakob who appeared in the first 22
Comments I checked out for 10 Aug 05!

Everyone ought to make themselves heard to their government,
an essence of our democratic process rights in the USA.

Of the last 50
comments, 24 are in favour, 17 against, and 9 want to keep a code test for
the Extra only. I suppose that does mean that a slim majority (of the last
50) want to keep a code test for the Extra but not the General, but 48%
want the code test eliminated. Unfortunately I don't have time to read all
1,319 comments!

No? :-) I have the time...and I've MADE the time. Interesting
to watch the individuals instead of their opinions being filtered
(and usually 'modified') through some other organization.

Larry Klose looked at all 2300+ Comments on the 98-143 NPRM and
know I have a good idea of how he felt slogging through some
of the truly weird (and sometimes imaginative) writings of a
few folks. [see "LeRoy Klose III" exhibits of 25, 26 Jan 99
under Docket 98-143 on the ECFS...nice statistics work on a
lot more complex NPRM than 05-143 for Docket 05-235]

I am posting the "scorecard" as of midnight 9 Aug 05 today.
The number of Comments/individuals FOR the NPRM are 57%, a
majority. Even if those unambiguous FOR Comments are
percentaged against the total number of Comments to date,
they would still be in the majority.

for yes

Len:

I think the amateurs who attempt to "control freak" the bands for their
personal use and club have always been successful, I mean, isn't it
obvious, look at the state of amateur radio.

I am thinking the FCC is giving a "thumbs down" to these "good ole boys"
activities... we will see...

However, their squealing like stuck hams (pun intended) was expected, was
it not?

John

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:09:35 -0700, LenAnderson wrote:

From: "Alun L. Palmer" on Wed 10 Aug 2005 11:37

wrote in news:1123648804.590620.207760
:


I have now entered my comment in favour of the NPRM.

Way to go, Alun! And to Hans Brakob who appeared in the first 22
Comments I checked out for 10 Aug 05!

Everyone ought to make themselves heard to their government,
an essence of our democratic process rights in the USA.

Of the last 50
comments, 24 are in favour, 17 against, and 9 want to keep a code test for
the Extra only. I suppose that does mean that a slim majority (of the last
50) want to keep a code test for the Extra but not the General, but 48%
want the code test eliminated. Unfortunately I don't have time to read all
1,319 comments!

No? :-) I have the time...and I've MADE the time. Interesting
to watch the individuals instead of their opinions being filtered
(and usually 'modified') through some other organization.

Larry Klose looked at all 2300+ Comments on the 98-143 NPRM and
know I have a good idea of how he felt slogging through some
of the truly weird (and sometimes imaginative) writings of a
few folks. [see "LeRoy Klose III" exhibits of 25, 26 Jan 99
under Docket 98-143 on the ECFS...nice statistics work on a
lot more complex NPRM than 05-143 for Docket 05-235]

I am posting the "scorecard" as of midnight 9 Aug 05 today.
The number of Comments/individuals FOR the NPRM are 57%, a
majority. Even if those unambiguous FOR Comments are
percentaged against the total number of Comments to date,
they would still be in the majority.

for yes

Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur Championships!

As of midnight EDT on 10 Aug 05, WT Docket 05-235
Comments on Test Element 1 Elimination/Retention a

Total 1367

Indeterminate/duplicates (note 1) 56

Unambiguously Against NPRM (note 2) 376 28.68%
Unambiguously For NPRM (note 3) 758 57.82%
Code test ONLY for Extras (note 4) 177 13.50%


Notes:

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, and one foreign citizen
submission.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentage figures are calculated against the Total less
the number of Indeterminate entries. For all up to
midnight of 10 Aug 05 that sub-total would be 1311.

10 August 2005 is the 16th day of submitted Comments. A notice
about FCC 05-143 or Docket WT 05-235 has NOT YET BEEN MADE in
the Federal Register so it is unknown if these 15 days of Comments
will be accepted by the Commission for decision on any Report and
Order. Note: The Federal Register 2005 Contents page on the GPO
website has NOT had any entry for 9 Aug 05 or later as of 3 PM EDT
on 11 Aug 05.

Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

dit nah

Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur NPRM Opinions!

As of midnight EDT on 11 Aug 05, WT Docket 05-235
Comments on Test Element 1 Elimination/Retention a

Total 1414

Indeterminate/duplicates (note 1) 62

Unambiguously Against NPRM (note 2) 386 28.55%
Unambiguously For NPRM (note 3) 783 57.91%
Code test ONLY for Extras (note 4) 183 13.54%


Notes:

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, and one foreign citizen
submission. It should be noted that at least two
individuals (one for, the other against the NPRM) have
been spotted making multiple entries over following
days; all such multiple entries are considered
duplicates and relegated to Indeterminate sub-total
regardless of their opinion position.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentage figures are calculated against the Total less
the number of Indeterminate entries. For all up to
midnight of 11 Aug 05 that would be 1352.

11 August 2005 is the 17th day of submitted Comments. A notice
about FCC 05-143 or Docket WT 05-235 has NOT YET BEEN MADE in
the Federal Register so it is unknown if these 17 days of Comments
will be accepted by the Commission for decision on any Report and
Order. Note: The Federal Register 2005 Contents page on the GPO
website has NOT had any entry for 9 Aug 05 or later as of Noon,
EDT, 12 Aug 05.

Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

dah nit

And tell me Lennie, where did my comments come in? I don't see my
particular catagory at all. Or, is this just another line of BS from you?

Dan/W4NTI

wrote in message
ups.com...
Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur Championships!

As of midnight EDT on 8 Aug 05, WT Docket 05-235
Comments on Test Element 1 Elimination/Retention a

Total 1215

Indeterminate/duplicates (note 1) 50

Unambiguously Against NPRM (note 2) 329 28.24%
Unambiguously For NPRM (note 3) 685 58.80%
Code test ONLY for Extras (note 4) 151 12.96%


Notes:

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, one foreign citizen submission.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentage figures are calculated against the Total less
the number of Indeterminate entries. For all up to
midnight of 8 Aug 05 that Total would be 1165.

A growing number of keep-code-test-for-Extra entries prompted
a review of all entries up to 8 Aug 05 and revision of the
previous postings of Against and Indeterminate numbers.
This was exacerbated by 14 entries made into the various day
listings by the FCC after midnight of the days given. Total
entry numbers are correct to the FCC-given totals up to and
including 8 Aug 05. Having read each and every entry made
so far, new entries made in previous day's listings can be
spotted without fail and tallied groups corrected as need be.

8 August 2005 is the 14th day of submitted Comments. A notice
about FCC 05-143 or Docket WT 05-235 has NOT YET BEEN MADE in
the Federal Register so it is unknown if these 14 days of Comments
will be accepted by the Commission for decision on any Report and
Order. Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being
made, like it or not.

dit dah

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
And tell me Lennie, where did my comments come in? I don't see my
particular catagory at all. Or, is this just another line of BS from you?

Dan/W4NTI


Dan wants his own private catagory I guess he is specail, specail what
I will not venture to say but he thinks he is specail, as I expect does
his mommy and Stevie, from what I read

pruning

From: "an_old_friend" on Fri 12 Aug 2005 14:36


Dan/W4NTI wrote:
And tell me Lennie, where did my comments come in? I don't see my
particular catagory at all. Or, is this just another line of BS from you?

Dan wants his own private catagory I guess he is specail, specail what
I will not venture to say but he thinks he is specail, as I expect does
his mommy and Stevie, from what I read

Anyone can venture an opinion on who is what. :-)

I'm just looking at EACH AND EVERY COMMENT that appears on the
ECFS for WT Docket 05-235. As of about 7 PM EDT on 12 Aug 05
there were a total of 1,437 documents under that docket; more
will be arriving until midnight and perhaps a few inserted (by
the FCC) the next day.

The tallies I make are done as objectively as I can. For the
vast majority of Comments that is a fairly easy task since the
subject is one of high polarization of opinion in U.S. amateur
radio. Sometimes there are oddities such as 5 of those for 12
Aug 05: Two duplicates (one For, the other Against) plus 3
that are NOT even on this NPRM, not on amateur radio at all!
:-)

Mark, if someone wants to "challenge" my numbers, they are
welcome to dig right in and read EVERY document in WT Docket
05-235, tally them up, and then SHOW the results. They will
also have to show the duplicates, made by both the For and
Against folks. Or wait for the Ultimate Authority in U.S.
amateur radio (the FCC) to do their final Report & Order.
Makes no difference to me if someone wants to "challenge"
the numbers...some of these southern-fried double-dips will
challenge anything just to start a fight. :-)

bla bla