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Mike Coslo wrote:
I'm firmly convinced that many of the people that think of Element 1 as the "great barrier" will be dismayed when they find out that there are other barriers to Amateur radio. "I tried but I'm just not able to learn the code." I heard it in the 1950's and I still hear it today. The global-standard copout which probably goes back to 1912. Putting together a station is probably harder for most people than learning Morse code. Putting together a *good* station is definitely so. Agreed. The upcoming wave of nocode Extras and Generals will have to face and resolve the same age-old problems us 20wpm OFs have faced for decades when it comes to put up or shut up time as it relates to actually operating in the HF bands. Like being able to spend the money it takes to acquire decent HF equipment, having the ingenuity and knowledge needed to home-brew decent antennas for constricted spaces for instance, ditto solving QRN and RFI problems, etc. Those have always been far bigger HF show-stoppers than the code tests ever were and will continue to be so. Those who want to get on HF badly enough will by one means or another. Those who can't be bothered with learning the code, spending the money, doing the learning and the physical work required to get on HF won't get on HF. In some huge percentage of cases those in this category are the same bunch who have been eagerly waiting for the code test "barrier" to completely disappear so that they can upgrade to HF tickets. I expect that after the smoke and flames die down there won't be any noticeable differences in the HF bands between now and 2010 as result of eliminating the code tests. Which is where the rubber actually hits the road. - Mike KB3EIA - w3rv |
wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: I'm firmly convinced that many of the people that think of Element 1 as the "great barrier" will be dismayed when they find out that there are other barriers to Amateur radio. "I tried but I'm just not able to learn the code." I heard it in the 1950's and I still hear it today. The global-standard copout which probably goes back to 1912. ah yes accusing everyone that disagrees of laziness we have been hearing that a long time too In 1912 there were reason you needed to be able to USE morse code, today there is no NEED to USE it at all and yte we test for for it awhile longer Putting together a station is probably harder for most people than learning Morse code. Putting together a *good* station is definitely so. Agreed. The upcoming wave of nocode Extras and Generals will have to face and resolve the same age-old problems us 20wpm OFs have faced for decades when it comes to put up or shut up time as it relates to actually operating in the HF bands. Like being able to spend the money it takes to acquire decent HF equipment, having the ingenuity and already got a decent rig, and one since it has VHF and UHF abilities I have been the air for years with knowledge needed to home-brew decent antennas for constricted spaces I don't need to to worry about constricted spaces I at least own 58 acress I don't think that even 160m will be a problem for instance, ditto solving QRN and RFI problems, etc. Those have always been far bigger HF show-stoppers than the code tests ever were and will continue to be so. and you make this statement why? it seems to have no point Those who want to get on HF badly enough will by one means or another. Those who can't be bothered with learning the code, cut not much longer spending the money, doing the learning and the physical work required to get on HF won't learnign how to operate hf before geting on it a weird and impossible idea get on HF. In some huge percentage of cases those in this category are the same bunch who have been eagerly waiting for the code test "barrier" to completely disappear so that they can upgrade to HF tickets. I can operate (physicaly not legaly) Now, indeed my station has operated on HF during a phone failure and power failure (some idoit and back hoe as I understand) my station Operated using the fact I make most of my own power already took someone coming over and "Blessing me" to do so I expect that after the smoke and flames die down there won't be any noticeable differences in the HF bands between now and 2010 as result of eliminating the code tests. Which is where the rubber actually hits the road. why 2010? given that there hearable deference in those band between now and 2000 (numbers down) just staying the same will be not a bad peice of work - Mike KB3EIA - w3rv |
an old friend wrote:
wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: I'm firmly convinced that many of the people that think of Element 1 as the "great barrier" will be dismayed when they find out that there are other barriers to Amateur radio. "I tried but I'm just not able to learn the code." I heard it in the 1950's and I still hear it today. The global-standard copout which probably goes back to 1912. ah yes accusing everyone that disagrees of laziness we have been hearing that a long time too In 1912 there were reason you needed to be able to USE morse code, today there is no NEED to USE it at all and yte we test for for it awhile longer I can't find any real reason why there is any need for testing for anything in Amateur radio any more. That doesn't mean that I don't support testing. It means that Hams and our regulatory bodies have to get together and form a consensus on just what we *want* Amateur radio to be. Do we want it to be a body of people with some form of technical knowledge? So be it. We can do that But we can indeed turn the Amateur bands into something else indeed. We can channelize them, we can eliminate experimentation, we can reduce maximum power levels, and we can ensure that only type accepted equipment is used. At that point, we can eliminate testing altogether. Putting together a station is probably harder for most people than learning Morse code. Putting together a *good* station is definitely so. Agreed. The upcoming wave of nocode Extras and Generals will have to face and resolve the same age-old problems us 20wpm OFs have faced for decades when it comes to put up or shut up time as it relates to actually operating in the HF bands. Like being able to spend the money it takes to acquire decent HF equipment, having the ingenuity and already got a decent rig, and one since it has VHF and UHF abilities I have been the air for years with Think about other people. knowledge needed to home-brew decent antennas for constricted spaces I don't need to to worry about constricted spaces I at least own 58 acress I don't think that even 160m will be a problem Does everyone? Think big-picture. Our own personal circumstances are not everyones. for instance, ditto solving QRN and RFI problems, etc. Those have always been far bigger HF show-stoppers than the code tests ever were and will continue to be so. and you make this statement why? it seems to have no point The point is that of the barriers to HF use, Morse code use is not the biggest. Those who want to get on HF badly enough will by one means or another. Those who can't be bothered with learning the code, cut not much longer spending the money, doing the learning and the physical work required to get on HF won't learnign how to operate hf before geting on it a weird and impossible idea Perhaps people should drive automobiles for a couple years before getting their licenses? I learned how to operate on HF by being Elmered by other hams. There still are things to learn before getting on HF successfully and safely. Of course, that could change if we change amateur radio into what some people apparently desire. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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Mike Coslo wrote: an old friend wrote: wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: I'm firmly convinced that many of the people that think of Element 1 as the "great barrier" will be dismayed when they find out that there are other barriers to Amateur radio. "I tried but I'm just not able to learn the code." I heard it in the 1950's and I still hear it today. The global-standard copout which probably goes back to 1912. ah yes accusing everyone that disagrees of laziness we have been hearing that a long time too In 1912 there were reason you needed to be able to USE morse code, today there is no NEED to USE it at all and yte we test for for it awhile longer I can't find any real reason why there is any need for testing for anything in Amateur radio any more. then propose that to the FCC That doesn't mean that I don't support testing. It means that Hams and our regulatory bodies have to get together and form a consensus on just what we *want* Amateur radio to be. Do we want it to be a body of people one the basic you basic premise is in error The rules MUST reflect what is in the interest of the PUBLIC, these are a subset of the PUBLIC airwaves Public regulation must reflect public interests with some form of technical knowledge? So be it. We can do that But we can indeed turn the Amateur bands into something else indeed. We can channelize them, we can eliminate experimentation, we can reduce maximum power levels, and we can ensure that only type accepted equipment is used. At that point, we can eliminate testing altogether. Putting together a station is probably harder for most people than learning Morse code. Putting together a *good* station is definitely so. Agreed. The upcoming wave of nocode Extras and Generals will have to face and resolve the same age-old problems us 20wpm OFs have faced for decades when it comes to put up or shut up time as it relates to actually operating in the HF bands. Like being able to spend the money it takes to acquire decent HF equipment, having the ingenuity and already got a decent rig, and one since it has VHF and UHF abilities I have been the air for years with Think about other people. Every Tech I know with all mode abilities all have at least ONE rig also able to do HF look at what is on the market knowledge needed to home-brew decent antennas for constricted spaces I don't need to to worry about constricted spaces I at least own 58 acress I don't think that even 160m will be a problem Does everyone? Think big-picture. Our own personal circumstances are not everyones. you presented as a absolute need an ability that doesn't aply to some of us. In other words you are making stuff up that ain't always so your rant was flawed, I punched a hole in it for instance, ditto solving QRN and RFI problems, etc. Those have always been far bigger HF show-stoppers than the code tests ever were and will continue to be so. and you make this statement why? it seems to have no point The point is that of the barriers to HF use, Morse code use is not the biggest. IYO Morse code USE is no barrair at all, hasn't been in years testing is of course a barriar and it is the Biggest one I have read article in QST on operating with crumy antennas (I remeber an article focusing on that) then you rattle off a list of "Barriars" that don't exist in many tech shacks Those who want to get on HF badly enough will by one means or another. Those who can't be bothered with learning the code, cut not much longer spending the money, doing the learning and the physical work required to get on HF won't learnign how to operate hf before geting on it a weird and impossible idea Perhaps people should drive automobiles for a couple years before getting their licenses? nope a silly idea I learned how to operate on HF by being Elmered by other hams. There still are things to learn before getting on HF successfully and safely. Bull**** I have set up on HF on FD operating on battery with no help at all and manged fine BTW I suggest that myself ifone has the choice planing on you first major operating being FD or something like that where you will KNOW someone is on the Air Of course, that could change if we change amateur radio into what some people apparently desire. no It already exists - Mike KB3EIA - |
From: Mike Coslo on Aug 6, 4:33 pm
an old friend wrote: wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: ah yes accusing everyone that disagrees of laziness we have been hearing that a long time too In 1912 there were reason you needed to be able to USE morse code, today there is no NEED to USE it at all and yte we test for for it awhile longer I can't find any real reason why there is any need for testing for anything in Amateur radio any more. Translation: "Whahhh, whahhh...the FCC is taking away Test Element 1 which I passed so make them take away the other three Test Elements which I passed!" Jay-suss, Coslo, you are one mean and spiteful mumbler... Michael, WT Docket 05-235 is ONLY about Test Element 1. That doesn't mean that I don't support testing. It means that Hams and our regulatory bodies have to get together and form a consensus on just what we *want* Amateur radio to be. "Consensus?!?" BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! If there was a "consensus" POSSIBLE, there wouldn't have been EIGHTEEN PETITIONS, all different, on a "new" amateur radio in the USA! What you (and most MMMs) "want" seems to be a fantasy idea of some kind of "radio expertise" allowed to use on certificates, after your name, and rationalization for all your posturing and elitist posings. A fantasyland where all can tell of their mighty amateur exploits, of "fish stories" of "catching the rare one," and strutting around like the cure for the common terrorist for "Homeland Security." BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! Do we want it to be a body of people with some form of technical knowledge? So be it. We can do that But we can indeed turn the Amateur bands into something else indeed. We can channelize them, we can eliminate experimentation, we can reduce maximum power levels, and we can ensure that only type accepted equipment is used. At that point, we can eliminate testing altogether. More translation: "Whaaaah, whaaaah, I took a morse test and passed and that makes me Very Technical Knowledgeable and those who don't or can't are 'dumbed down!' Waaaa, waaaa..." Tsk, tsk, tsk. WT Docket 05-235 and any subsequent R&O based on that is NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE CONTENTS OF 97.1 in Title 47 C.F.R. In case you've forgotten, that's the DEFINITION of "amateur radio" from the FCC, the agency that regulates amateur radio. You MAY be talking about the ARRL's idea of "what amateur radio is all about" which seems to center around "working DX on HF with CW." or "working CW contacts on HF for an 'official' (ARRL) contest." Does WT Docket 05-235 TAKE AWAY EXPERIMENTATION? NO. Does WT Docket 05-235 MANDATE TYPE-ACCEPTED EQUIPMENT? NO. Does WT Docket 05-235 MAKE ALL THE BANDS "CHANNELIZED?" NO. Does WT Docket 05-235 MANDATE NEW RF OUT POWER LEVELS? NO. Putting together a station is probably harder for most people than learning Morse code. Putting together a *good* station is definitely so. Wow, "really HARD!" Walk into an HRO holding a little plastic card and point to what you want on display, saying "I want that." Ask for an antenna to put up and select from a large variety of them for ANY ham band. Swipe the card in their reader and Voila! it is YOURS. Take home the boxes, open them up, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS PACKED IN EACH BOX, and install. Whether or not that will be a "good" station depends on the balance in your card's account, how glorious a review it got in QST, and whether or not you bothered to read the install instructions. Agreed. The upcoming wave of nocode Extras and Generals will have to face and resolve the same age-old problems us 20wpm OFs have faced for decades when it comes to put up or shut up time as it relates to actually operating in the HF bands. Like being able to spend the money it takes to acquire decent HF equipment, having the ingenuity and already got a decent rig, and one since it has VHF and UHF abilities I have been the air for years with Think about other people. Tsk, tsk. THINK ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE, yes. THINK ABOUT THE THREE OTHERS BESIDES YOURSELF THAT DO NOT WANT THAT CODE TEST!!! Coslo, the average NCTA v. PCTA ratio is hovering around 3:1. It varies from day to day, but the virtual "poll" in the Comments to WT Docket 05-235 make it GREATER than 2:1. You are only thinking of YOURSELF and winning message points in here... Perhaps people should drive automobiles for a couple years before getting their licenses? Oh, my, the "LICENSE" thing again! :-) Tsk, tsk, good old reducto ad absurdum technique. I learned to OPERATE as well as maintain HIGH-POWER HF Transmitters a half century ago WITHOUT ANY "LICENSE" WHATSOEVER and WITHOUT HAVING TO KNOW OR USE MORSE CODE. Those RADIO OWNERS AND OPERATORS using Part 95 radios "need licenses?" I learned how to operate on HF by being Elmered by other hams. There still are things to learn before getting on HF successfully and safely. I recall only a few days of "on the job training" in the Army with "elmering" (not yet in vogue as a term in ham radio then) being simply "do this, do that, dip the plate and peak the grid, do NOT hold onto this when in standby because it will KILL you." BFD. All the rest was PROCEDURE, how the frequency got checked, what the TTY order-wire stuff meant, regulations, and lots of specific other things. It was NOT "rocket science" and AMATEUR radio IS NOT A JOB. Repeat: AMATEUR RADIO IS NOT A JOB. If you screw up operating your own hobby radio, you will NOT BE FIRED and nobody will DOCK YOUR PAY. Of course, that could change if we change amateur radio into what some people apparently desire. Third translation: "Waaaa, waaaa, them damn no-coders are gonna take away the FANTASY I bought into...me, a big time national asset to homeland security and a 'serviceman' in the service of the nation!" Jay-suss, the Mighty Macho Morseman won't be "banned," the "bands" (a colloquial hamname for HF) won't change, and extras will NOT be forced to retest! Elimination of Test Element 1 will do ONLY ONE thing: FREE newcomers and "upgraders" of having to take a morse code cognition test. Nothing more. YOU won't have to give up a thing...except your fantasies pounded into your brain by the fearsome gods of all morsemen working in Newington. You won't even be excommunicated from the Church of St. Hiram! boo his |
From: Mike Coslo on Aug 6, 7:23 am
wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: Bill Sohl wrote: wrote in message Phil Kane wrote: On 4 Aug 2005 15:22:35 -0700, wrote: 1. The discussion as to value or need to have any code test was completely discussed prior to 2000 when the FCC specifically called for such discussion (NPRM 98-143). I thought so to. But why didn't FCC simply dump Element 1 two years ago, after WRC 2003 ended the treaty requirement? Institutional inertia. INCORRECT. 1. The LAW (try the Communications Act of 1934 for starters) doesn't work that way. 2. The FCC could legally do it just the same but would face later LAW in the Courts from all the outraged membership organizations, enough to delay everything for years more. 3. The ARRL lobbyists (both the law firm and the lobbying firm) were dead set against the FCC doing anything without "the League's Permission." Is there any chance that *any* pro-code-test discussion will have *any* effect on the outcome? Negative. ANY negative with another negative added to it will still be NEGATIVE. Suppose - just suppose - that after all the comments are in, the majority of commenters support at least some code testing. Will FCC change their position? I believe that the way the argument is framed is critical. It seems that the argument has been put forth about getting rid of a regulation. And we all "know" that regulation is a bad thing. Element 1 goes away. I consider the odds of it staying are about the same as a singularity popping up. WOW! Those SOUR GRAPES ripened FAST...you've already made gallons of WHINE out of it! Prosit. Um, Bill. Do you *really* believe that because the majority of current comments are in favor of elimination of the test, that the majority of Hams are of the same opinion? *Is* it a representative sample? Does that matter? No it doesn't' matter. I simply want to point out to people such as Bill and Jhxn that the comments are not even close to a statistically proper poll. I expect better out of Bill. Wow! You WHINE-tipplers better not drive anywhere...you are DUI. Tsk, is your definition of "representative sample" equivalent to WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN? Silly question, of course it is! Now, if the ARRL had conducted a "poll," it would be absolutely, positively, peachy-keen ACCURATE...even if the poll respondents were League members and good, God-fearing Morsemen of high rate! BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hee haw |
Mike Coslo wrote:
*Why* should there be any testing? Listen to 11 meters and see why. |
Bill Sohl wrote:
Additionally, having passed a test in no way guarantees continued profficiency. I passed 13 wpm over 10 years and haven't use code in probably 8 years or so. You'd probably not want to have a CW QSO with me now :-) And yet we'll wait hours or even days for a reply to a NG post. This form of communicating has to be about the slowest. 73 Bill, Jeff KH6O -- Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System |
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