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Carl R. Stevenson wrote: Steve, The comment period isn't OPEN yet (the release of the NPRM by the FCC doesn't "start the clock," it's the publication in the Federal Register, which has not yet happened. Thus, technically speaking, while the docket is open in the ECFS, comments filed now are "premature," so I would suggest you consider refraining from "dis-ing" people over something where they are behaving in a completely appropriate manner. I fully intend to file my comments on the NPRM within the appropriate, prescribed time window. I expect others who understand the comment/reply comment process, as prescribed by the Administrative Procedures Act will likewise file their comments in the appropriate, prescribed time window. 73, Carl - wk3c Same stuff, different day. And at the end of the day, Steve's still an idiot. |
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Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: John Smith wrote: N2EY: Yes, your list there shows how quite insane FCC licensing has been, however, the arrl has to bear a lot of this blame also, they used political pressures for their personal gains. The longest journey begins but with the first step, there are many necessary steps now to bring amateur radio back in line with sanity... John So what is your solution? You must be kidding, Jim! Not at all, Mike. Of course some folks who poat to rrap tend to pose a sort of Zen problem - they tell you what a thing is not, or what it shouldn't be, but never say what it is, or how it should be. You watch. If Element 1 is dumped, as seems highly likely, there will be a burst of license activity, then same old same old as far as the numbers go. Then watch as the written tests and other regs are attacked as "barriers". Heck, it's already started with the free upgrades thing. FCC rejected that - this time. 73 de Jim, N2EY "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" (snaps fingers) |
wrote in part:
Would you eliminate the technical parts of the tests because hams aren't required to build or fix their rigs? No. But I would emphasize troubleshooting strategy, which would help hams at all levels from the appliance operators to the one-handed-behind-the-back surface-mount circuit homebrewers. Would you eliminate all mode-specific and band-specific questions because hams aren't required to use any specific band or mode? Nope. But know the best operating procedures for each band and mode. And why, from a basic radio science perpective. Would you eliminate all technology-specific questions because hams aren't required to use any specific technology? No. Keep the introductory electronics, but strongly emphasize the science behind the RADIO WAVES you're EMITTING and RECEIVING, and the media in which they propagate. This means that even appliance operators, so maligned on this group and elesewhere, will have as firm foundation in the actual activity of communications as the electronics wizard. *Besides* eliminating the code test, what would *you* change about the license tests? It's the Operator Techniques, stpuid. ($1) With fewer LIDS, people won't care what electronics skill level you have when the mike is off. And ham radio will be less of the circle jerk it has become. And eliminate the swimsuit competition as stated in previous message. I mean, the Huntsville Hamfest is coming up and man, I don't even want to think about it. 73 Corry K4DOH -- It Came From C. L. "Yes, I could drop a few pounds myself" Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries. http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net Of course I went to law school. - Warren Zevon, "Mr. Bad Example" |
From: on Aug 4, 1:08 pm
Perhaps someone can clear up one issue for me.....why do we take a morse code test to gain access to phone portions of the bands? It has never made sense to me that you had to pass a code test to operate HF phone..... Heyo John T., Oh, my, that IS a long story, but it begins in 1896 and the first demonstration of radio as a communications medium. Back then, before transistors, even before vacuum tubes (!) this "radio" thingy was VERY primitive. One could turn the Tx ON and OFF, though, so all turned to the Morse-Vail telegraph code which was now 52 years old and mature. Okay, 18 more years to 1912, the appearance of the first U.S. radio regulating agency and the sinking of the Titanic. This fledgling radio regulating agency had no precedent, played it by ear and eventually made radiotelegraphy a necessary test for applicant radio operators. Almost ALL radio transmitters used on-off keying. Damn simple technology, if you can call it "technology" in radio. On-off keying is a no-brainer thing. Two more years to 1914 and Saint Hiram of Maxim, the new "leader" of hamdom who, with a couple buddies, establishes the ARRL. [never mind that the Radio Club of America was formed a lot earlier as well as some competitors] Things were very competitive amongst the ham clubs then. Cut to 1919 and Hiram Goes To Washington to lobby for the restoration of the amateur bands...which had been shut down for World War One. Big Publicity is later made of this successful lobbying...even though Maxim wasn't the only one... in the ARRL's telling of the tale Saint Hiram did everything but walk on the reflecting pool of the Mall in DC. ARRL has made it to the top of the club heap after WW1 with a neat trick: Becoming a publisher...of books on ham radio, of a periodical called QST. EXCELLENT base for spreading the ARRL's word, it's "maxims" as it were. H.P.Maxim does a regular column (he is now virtually President for Life) under the pen name "T.O.M." ("the old man") and talks a lot about sending good code, behavior, and all the other things. Publishing MAKES MONEY and they can get away with it on taxes because the League is ALSO a "membership organization." With profit the League can afford a legal firm in DC to represent them before the various radio commissions. New findings, new rulings. Hams are banished from the "BC" band and "vanquished" to "wavelengths shorter than 200 meters." I.e., frequencies above 1500 KC (as they usta call KHz), or MF and HF the "short waves." Oh, wow, lots to write about, lots of "technology" to publish about with this new "shortwave" stuff. Between the Wars the world's hams begin to converse, but in the newly-standardized (more or less) International Morse Code (standardized for international commercial telegraphy). Vacuum tubes begin to be available and the radio technology starts looking like technology. But... The Great Depression hits with over a quarter of the workforce in the USA out of work (but almost three-quarters still work). Tough times, little income. Tube radio parts are expensive and radiotelegraphy is the cheapest mode in hardware...AM voice sounds too "commercial" like professional broadcasting. Very few hams know about "sideband" which the telephone long-lines folks started on land, then pioneered on HF with four voice channels per transmitter. T.O.M. hung in there into the thirties and kept on plugging morsemanship. Vive la beeping! "The Amateur's Code" came out in the 1920s, one item of which was a shameless plug for the League ("owe your allegiance to the ARRL" etc.). Come WW2 and there's another blackout of ham radio. QST keeps being published, yielding free publicity for income-producing ham books. ARRL makes a big thing about hams being a "national resource of trained radio operators for the nation" and that notion will hang on for six decades plus. "CW" is King in the ham world. But...with the revolution in post-WW2 technology arrives the single-channel single sideband technology for voice at lower power, somewhat lower cost. The military starts the demand and Collins Radio leads the commercial pack in producing the bestest SSB rigs...which they also market to hams. Oboy, new technology in 1950 (although lagging the commercial radio field by at least two decades). QST and some olde-tyme hams bring back the hoary old saying "CW gets through when nothing else will" in defiance of this new voice mode and new technology (who the #$%^!!! ever heard of "sidebands" and what's all this "vector" crap?). ARRL starts making good bucks in publishing after WW2 and several other publishers start up. Profits for all. Standard of living improves, money is spent. But, the leaders at the League are still of the "old school" where Code is King. Now back in that prehistory, few hams lived close to DC and the Internet wasn't even a pipe-dream. Communications with one's government had to be done by surface mail (slow) or telegram (fast but expensive). Few could afford Telex things except maybe the attorneys who worked over the gubmint for their clients. The League got terribly Conservative in the post-war time and that spread throughout the world. Political tensions were high all over and the "Reds" were waving sabers and tossing test nukes. Instability after a terrible Second World War. Conservatism and simplicity looked good, a comfort. Olde-tymers at the League pushed for "CW" to be at the top of the heap and there it stayed for decades. ARRL had the MAJOR publicity vehicle and monopolized the influence on ham hobbyists. Olde-tymer ham conservatives ruled the IARU and did their thing with the newly-formed ITU for ham radio standards. Things didn't go as well for the olde-tymers as they thought. New blood was out there and flowing hotly. At the WARCs this progressive group were able to set the "code test mandatory" rule of the ITU to just below 30 MHz. The "T-hams" started up in various other nations before the USA made the no-code-test Tech in 1991. Domestically, the no-code-test movement was stirring and sounding off during the 1980s (they pushed the no-code-test Tech creation, NOT the League). But, comms on legal matters took TIME and effort for all but the attornies. Conservatives in the League were entrenched now and were determined not to give up at any cost! Behold the Internet, finally public in 1991...then the push in the government to take advantage of that, to eventually integrate it into the DSN as a part. Pow! Suddenly the lowly citizen with a PC could now TALK DIRECT with their government! Wondrous! Something they never really had before...no need to "filter" things through some "membership organization." Internet exploded in many directions and the convservative olde-tymers groused and grumbled. Their INFLUENCE was waning and they could no longer "direct traffic" of members to THEIR way of thinking. Cellular telephony, CDs, dial-direct-wired phones, DVDs and VHSs and a burgeoning fun-with-any-electronics in hobby things vied for attention among hobbyists. The WORLD was open to explore and didn't depend on the vagaries of the ionosphere or solar index. Olde-tyme conservatives were ****ed and strutted around with hoary old phrases, cussing at evil CB types (now 47 years old), and making big big with morsemanship. The League managed to hang onto its core membership but the core was olde-tyme conservatives who prized morsemanship above everything else. The League fought tooth and nail for maintenance of the status quo since their black-ink ledger notations needed MORE $$$. By 2005 there are MORE cell phone subscriptions than there are wired phone subscriptions, one in five families have some kind of Internet access, and the League membership has shrunk to less than a quarter of all licensed U.S. radio amateurs. ARRL was seemingly unaware that the two Technician class license totals had reached 48% of all licensees in this year...they have never really reached out to them. Why, I don't know, but the League is hide-bound to their olde-tyme core conservative membership desires. The numbers of amateur licensees is NOT growing, actually slightly dropping (small but continuous). The newcomers are getting in via the NO-CODE-TEST class and most are staying there. They do NOT want, en masse or not, to be the greatest 1930s radiotelegrapher possible in 2005. In 2000 the IARU defied the ARRL and pushed for no-code. By mid-2003 the ITU-T *finally* got S25 rewritten and the mandatory code test for a below-30-MHz license was removed, deleted, made defunct. Trouble is, all them olde-tyme conservative hams had been so thoroughly brainwashed by code testing that they opposed U.S. code test deletion like it was a battle for life itself. For some that may have been true...morsemanship was THE thing in their radio world and that world would END on code test elimination! Olde-tyme mentalities are VERY stubborn. Trouble is, them morse lovers are outnumbered 3:1. They just don't realize it yet... yee haw |
From: Carl R. Stevenson on Aug 4, 1:55 pm
Steve, The comment period isn't OPEN yet (the release of the NPRM by the FCC doesn't "start the clock," it's the publication in the Federal Register, which has not yet happened. Heyo Carl! Welcome again. Sunnuvagun you are RIGHT! I checked the FR at the GPO site and there is nothing there yet from 15 July (the NPRM release date) through 4 August! Amazing...two weeks gone on this NPRM and it hasn't started yet! Even worse, at least a dozen ham-interest websites have made it a cause celebre, front-page headline thing (which it is)...and lots of folks are now urging Comments to be sent in! Everyone from Nancy Kott at FISTS on out... :-) Thus, technically speaking, while the docket is open in the ECFS, comments filed now are "premature," so I would suggest you consider refraining from "dis-ing" people over something where they are behaving in a completely appropriate manner. Stebie don' need no steenking rules! :-) See 25 Jan 99 on 98-143, 10 days AFTER the supposed window close on the Restructuring NPRM. Stebie was in there dissing me. :-) He hasn't stopped since. I fully intend to file my comments on the NPRM within the appropriate, prescribed time window. I expect others who understand the comment/reply comment process, as prescribed by the Administrative Procedures Act will likewise file their comments in the appropriate, prescribed time window. No problem here. I can resend my Comment in the click of a few mouse buttons. It will still apply. Morse code is only 161 years old...it's had its time in the sun. Thanks for the advisory. Will have to check the Federal Register daily now to see if 05-235 has had its window open. No breeze. Or, as Shakespeare almost wrote it, "Lo, what ball through yonder window breaks?" :-) dit bye |
N2EY:
Has our society been so dumbed down you must even ask a question like that? I would have question fitting using a commercial radio for those whose only use is to buy the damn thing and chat... of course the question of rf hazards would always be important and should be included. I would have tech questions fitting those who wished to build their own equip, so I knew they were properly prepared... For those constructing their own antennas, proper tower, mast, etc questions to make sure they were prepared to do so safely... Of course, you would need a group of minds to arrange the question properly and sanely... You should be able to extrapolate from the above and see how it would apply to and given situation--hardware--software--rules--regs--etc John On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 14:36:15 -0700, N2EY wrote: John Smith wrote: N2EY: Yes, your list there shows how quite insane FCC licensing has been, however, the arrl has to bear a lot of this blame also, they used political pressures for their personal gains. The longest journey begins but with the first step, there are many necessary steps now to bring amateur radio back in line with sanity... John So what is your solution? Would you eliminate the technical parts of the tests because hams aren't required to build or fix their rigs? Would you eliminate all mode-specific and band-specific questions because hams aren't required to use any specific band or mode? Would you eliminate all technology-specific questions because hams aren't required to use any specific technology? *Besides* eliminating the code test, what would *you* change about the license tests? On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 13:50:13 -0700, N2EY wrote: wrote: Perhaps someone can clear up one issue for me.....why do we take a morse code test to gain access to phone portions of the bands? It has never made sense to me that you had to pass a code test to operate HF phone..... For the same reasons that you take tests which include questions on homebrewing to use manufactured radio sets. For the same reasons that you take tests which include questions on voice modes to use Morse Code and data modes. For the same reasons that you take tests which include questions on the limits of VHF/UHF ham bands to operate on the HF/MF ham bands. For the same reasons that you take tests which include questions on RF exposure and electrical safety to use low power battery-operated rigs. For the same reasons that you take tests which include questions on transistors and ICs to use vacuum tube rigs. Etc. Suppose someone wanted to operate a low-power Morse Code amateur radio transceiver on 7020 kHz. Just a simple 50 watt transceiver and dipole antenna, with key and speaker. To operate legally, such a person would need an Extra class license, which requires passing tests that include all sorts of stuff that is unnecessary for the legal and correct operation of the above station. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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