Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 05:17:49 GMT, Dave Heil wrote
in . net:


Frank Gilliland wrote:

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 04:43:18 GMT, Dave Heil wrote
in t:

snip

I'd imagine



No need to say any more -- that pretty much sums it up.

It surely does. It pretty much sums up all of your imagining, guessing
and assuming about what Steve has and hasn't done.



Dudly gets himself in hot water and it's Dave to the rescue!

There isn't any "Dudly" and I didn't attempt any rescue. I made
comments. Steve provided an explanation for all of your sinister
imaginings.


I can't yet figure your motivation



I don't know why -- I've clearly stated my "motivation" several times
in plain English.

I know of no statement of motivation issued by you.


but you've admitted being a screw up
in the military. It looks as if you're out to smear the service of
others for whatever reason. Most of us who served managed to get
through a hitch without an Article 15, much less a court martial.



One more time, Dave: I wasn't exactly the 'model Marine', but I did my
service and I did it well (despite Dudly's imagined version of the
facts as recorded in my SRB).

Two courts martial show me that "I wasn't exactly the model Marine" may
not be an appropriate phrase.

I am no less proud of my service than
any other Marine.

There are oodles of folks who are proud of records which others would
find to be less than stellar.

And like any other Marine, I find it reprehensible
when someone like Dudly makes false claims about his "career", fudging
the truth in order to get a little more praise.

So far, we have you guessing and making accusations. There is no "Dudly".

So you never got caught doing anything wrong. Hooray for you.
Something to be proud of, I suppose.

Is that how your value system works? You think that I never got caught
doing something wrong? The fact is, I never did anything which could
nail me with Article 15 punishment, much less get me court martialed.

However, I have a slightly
different value system. I don't rest my laurels on never having done
anything wrong (which I don't think anyone can honesty claim).

I didn't write that I've never done anything wrong. I wrote that I'd
not done anything which could result in Article 15 punishment or a court
martial.

Instead, I list my accomplishments by the challenges I have faced and
overcome, whether they were caused by my own actions or by
circumstances beyond my control. And believe me, I have done both.

We're different. I try not to find myself in situations where I have to
overcome something caused by me.

Dudly said it himself: It's easy to get through the military without
so much as an Article 15 -- just follow orders. Now that's fine for a
reservist, where the orders given aren't much of a challenge. It's
easy to blindly follow orders. But that isn't always the case on
active duty.

I was never a reservist and I didn't blindly follow orders. There isn't
any "Dudly". Can you find it in yourself to use the man's name?

Maybe you forgot Abu Graib, or that incident where the
soldiers refused to make an unnecessary supply run without sufficient
armor..... or even the Iran-Contra scandal. When the orders are wrong
or illegal, as happens from time to time, it's -not- easy to do the
-right- thing and challenge authority. I consider that to be one of my
accomplishments.

So both of your courts martial are cases in which you were only trying
to do the right thing?

I also consider it an accomplishment to have fulfilled my military
obligation after two courts-martial and the constant denigration from
others that resulted from them, a tactic that Dudly is trying to use.

There isn't any "Dudly". That is your attempt at denigrating someone
who wasn't court martialed. His name is Steve.

What Dudly doesn't realize is that he can say nothing that I haven't
heard before and overcome. I proved them wrong and I'm proud of that
fact.

Both of your courts martial were overturned?

So when Dudly (and now yourself) try to use the same demeaning
tactics I can only laugh.

You blew in here touting the wonders of CB radio in an amateur radio
newsgroup, started a game of "I'll bet he never...." in regards to Steve
and you don't expect to be demeaned? I guess you'll have to get used to it.

Dave, I have no beef with you. I didn't feel it necessary to give you
-any- sort of explanation but I did anyway. If it wasn't enough, or if
you can't understand it, tough ****. But do you really feel the need
to defend Dudly -- a retired Marine Gunny, a CAP Major, a TN State
Guardsman, and a veteran of seven hostile actions -- against me, a
****bird PFC?

You should regroup, rethink your motives and gather some facts if you
think Steve, not "Dudly" has manufactured anything about his record. If
you can provide proof and feel the need to do so, post it. Otherwise
your rants have no meaning, especially here.

If you do then you are only hurting Dudly's case, not
helping it.

Well, there's one man's view.

If you are going to stick up for Dudly, fine. As far as
I'm concerned, you two love-birds can row your boat out into the wash
together and do whatever it is that makes you two happy.

I was Air Force. I don't row. My dad was Navy though--a Normandy
Invasion vet. He always told me that the reason there were two sailors
on each landing craft was that one piloted the craft and the other was
to chase the Marines down the ramp and onto the beach.

My experience with Marines has been with those on MSG duty. When the
Gunny would come to the Comm center for message traffic, I'd provide it
and even read it to him if necessary.

Dave K8MN

Frankie of Silliland wrote:
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 05:17:49 GMT, Dave Heil wrote
in . net:
Frankie of Silliland wrote:
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 04:43:18 GMT, Dave Heil wrote
in t:

snip

I'd imagine

No need to say any more -- that pretty much sums it up.

It surely does. It pretty much sums up all of your imagining, guessing
and assuming about what Steve has and hasn't done.

Dudly gets himself in hot water and it's Dave to the rescue!

So...Guess that "nobody here likes you" thing was WRONG, eh,
Frankie?

And as for the temperature of the water, I'd say your feet are a
few degrees closer to boiling than mine.....

I can't yet figure your motivation

I don't know why -- I've clearly stated my "motivation" several times
in plain English.

No, you've not.

but you've admitted being a screw up
in the military. It looks as if you're out to smear the service of
others for whatever reason. Most of us who served managed to get
through a hitch without an Article 15, much less a court martial.

One more time, Dave: I wasn't exactly the 'model Marine', but I did my
service and I did it well (despite Dudly's imagined version of the
facts as recorded in my SRB).

No, you did NOT "do it well", save perhaps in YOUR imagination.

Marines with TWO courts martials in one tour are NOT "good"
Marines.

I am no less proud of my service than any other Marine.

You should be...you were incompetent as a Marine...Competency as a
Marine does not limit itself to how skilled or knowledgeable you may
have been in your MOS.

And HAD you been a "good Marine", you'd know.

And like any other Marine, I find it reprehensible
when someone like Dudly makes false claims about his "career", fudging
the truth in order to get a little more praise.

What fudging?

So you never got caught doing anything wrong. Hooray for you.
Something to be proud of, I suppose. However, I have a slightly
different value system. I don't rest my laurels on never having done
anything wrong (which I don't think anyone can honesty claim).
Instead, I list my accomplishments by the challenges I have faced and
overcome, whether they were caused by my own actions or by
circumstances beyond my control. And believe me, I have done both.

What you MEAN is that you were completely incapable of operating
within the "value system" of what it was to be a Marine, but now you
try some boohoo about how more challenging it was for you.

Dudly said it himself: It's easy to get through the military without
so much as an Article 15 -- just follow orders.

I questioned orders on numerous occasions. But that's part of that
"value system"...Knowing how to work within the system.

You were stupid.

Twice.

Now that's fine for a
reservist, where the orders given aren't much of a challenge.

And again an out-and-out misrepresentation of the character of
service of the Reserve Forces of the United States...

What part of what the Reserves are doing today is any less
challenging than what the active duty guys are doing?

Indeed...they have it harder...Taken from homes and 'real jobs' to
fight in the desert.

It's easy to blindly follow orders.

And it's even easier to make up silly stories like yours.

But that isn't always the case on
active duty. Maybe you forgot Abu Graib, or that incident where the
soldiers refused to make an unnecessary supply run without sufficient
armor..... or even the Iran-Contra scandal. When the orders are wrong
or illegal, as happens from time to time, it's -not- easy to do the
-right- thing and challenge authority. I consider that to be one of my
accomplishments.

I also consider it an accomplishment to have fulfilled my military
obligation after two courts-martial and the constant denigration from
others that resulted from them, a tactic that Dudly is trying to use.
What Dudly doesn't realize is that he can say nothing that I haven't
heard before and overcome. I proved them wrong and I'm proud of that
fact. So when Dudly (and now yourself) try to use the same demeaning
tactics I can only laugh.

All you've done is make a laughing stock out of your "arguments"
here, Frankie...

You were incompetent as a Marine. You are where incompetent
Marines SHOULD be...in civilian life with two courts martials to live
with.

Dave, I have no beef with you. I didn't feel it necessary to give you
-any- sort of explanation but I did anyway. If it wasn't enough, or if
you can't understand it, tough ####.

Frankie trying to soft-soap Dave since just last night he was
telling "everyone" that "no one" here was "on my side".

That having now been proven false, Frankie tries his own version of
"spin".

But do you really feel the need
to defend Dudly -- a retired Marine Gunny, a CAP Major, a TN State
Guardsman, and a veteran of seven hostile actions -- against me, a
####bird PFC?

A liar's a liar, Frankie...You're a very determined one, but a liar
none the less.

If you do then you are only hurting Dudly's case, not helping it.

Ahhhhhhh...Just like President Nixon's "Silent Majority" trick,
Frankie...?!?!

If you are going to stick up for Dudly, fine. As far as
I'm concerned, you two love-birds can row your boat out into the wash
together and do whatever it is that makes you two happy.

So here we have it, folks...

Frankie "comes over" from the CB NG for no other purpose than to
take up for Markie and Company against a former Marine since he knows
just enough of "the lingo" to sound impressive. It's OK for "them" to
go 5-to-1 on me.

He is, however, a twice disgraced loser who didn't have the
dignity or strength of character to get through ONE tour of duty
without being court martialed TWICE.

He is "all about" teaming up with Lennie, Markie, etc, but let
someone say something in MY support and they are "defending" me, as if
words of support for me were verbal herpes.

I wonder what it is about Dave saying something that makes Frankie
worry about the possible odds now being 5:2 instead of 5:1...?!?!

More substantiation of my claim that he's a coward.

Steve, K4YZ

From: Frank Gilliland on Wed 2 Nov 2005 08:19

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 05:17:49 GMT, Dave Heil wrote
Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 04:43:18 GMT, Dave Heil wrote

snip

I'd imagine

No need to say any more -- that pretty much sums it up.

It surely does. It pretty much sums up all of your imagining, guessing
and assuming about what Steve has and hasn't done.

Dudly gets himself in hot water and it's Dave to the rescue!

It's the on-going Pro-Code-Test-Advocate Morsemen alliance
working hard with the PCTA Double Standard. :-)

Davie KNOWS things. He worked in the Department of State!
He served IN a country at WAR! [busy doing MARS at Tan
Son Nhut]

I can't yet figure your motivation

I don't know why -- I've clearly stated my "motivation" several times
in plain English.

Irrelevant, Frank. Davie DEMANDS MOTIVATION (when he runs out
of valid/coherent replies).

Davie DEMANDED that I "should" have gotten an amateur radio
license BEFORE EVER getting into professional radio. Implied
that it was the proper thing to do...no doubt showing
MOTIVATION to HIM. Tsk, the U.S. Army didn't know that...

but you've admitted being a screw up
in the military. It looks as if you're out to smear the service of
others for whatever reason. Most of us who served managed to get
through a hitch without an Article 15, much less a court martial.

One more time, Dave: I wasn't exactly the 'model Marine', but I did my
service and I did it well (despite Dudly's imagined version of the
facts as recorded in my SRB). I am no less proud of my service than
any other Marine. And like any other Marine, I find it reprehensible
when someone like Dudly makes false claims about his "career", fudging
the truth in order to get a little more praise.

Frank, I've NO problems with your pride and espirit d'corps
about the USMC. It shows. It also shows you have no qualms
about stating what you did without embellishments,
embroidery, or exaggeration. You are telling it like it is.
Davie and Dudly sin by omission, leaving out the details of
their exploits.

Davie was HIGHLY CRITICAL of MY service in the Army, of NOT
being "at war" or even IN a country at war. When I voluntarily
enlisted on 13 Mar 52, there was a very hot war going on in
Korea. The Army didn't send me there directly, stationed me
in Tokyo beginning in early February, 1953, a sort-of cease
fire then in Korea. The formal Truce period began in July,
1953. [that "Truce" period has NOT ended...technically, a
state of war still exists with North Korea 52 years later]

Why is Davie so critical? Tsk, a long time ago in here I
mentioned being assigned to work at the (then) 3rd largest
Army radio station in ACAN (the worldwide Army Command and
Administrative Network...later called "StarCom" and then
Defense Communications System). HF radio. HF was the old
mainstay of long-distance message traffic in the military.
Three dozen transmitters on HF with power outputs of 1 KW
to 40 KW, operating 24/7. [Dave said "you never worked
24/7" but we did...all over the Pacific] Thing was that
this 3rd largest station was far bigger than ANY State
Department foreign station of any time in State's existance
and even helped carry State message traffic on some of the
circuits. Davie said "you don't know anything about what
State Department does!" but I did...as did everyone who
was INTO the ACAN and DID carry some of their message load]

Davie got on a toot, adjusted his truss, and couldn't stop
condemning me in here ever since. Doesn't matter what the
subject is, Davie is so damn critical of being "opposed" in
anything he says that he does the "revenge" bit all the time
now. He is a MORSEMAN and, according to him, NO radio
amateur shows "motivation" unless they love, honor, and
obey morsemanship.

So you never got caught doing anything wrong. Hooray for you.
Something to be proud of, I suppose. However, I have a slightly
different value system. I don't rest my laurels on never having done
anything wrong (which I don't think anyone can honesty claim).
Instead, I list my accomplishments by the challenges I have faced and
overcome, whether they were caused by my own actions or by
circumstances beyond my control. And believe me, I have done both.

That's the way it is in the military. One seldom gets a
"choice" on what to do. Follow orders, etc.

Davie worked for the Department of State. "Following orders,"
then Secretary of State Colin Powell (under President Bush
the 2nd] told the world that "Saddam Hussein has Weapons of
Mass Destruction" thereby "justifying a war" in Iraq. [Powell
had been Chief of Staff of the military under President Bush
the 1st] Over 2000 service personnel killed since, absolutely
NO "weapons of mass destruction" have been found in Iraq. Has
the Department of State taken back Powell's public statement?
No. Has Davie ever taken back a single personal insult thrown
at others (many have been thrown)? No.

"Lessons learned?" Maybe.

Dudly said it himself: It's easy to get through the military without
so much as an Article 15 -- just follow orders. Now that's fine for a
reservist, where the orders given aren't much of a challenge. It's
easy to blindly follow orders. But that isn't always the case on
active duty. Maybe you forgot Abu Graib, or that incident where the
soldiers refused to make an unnecessary supply run without sufficient
armor..... or even the Iran-Contra scandal. When the orders are wrong
or illegal, as happens from time to time, it's -not- easy to do the
-right- thing and challenge authority. I consider that to be one of my
accomplishments.

Good on you, Frank.

Davie won't let up on you, though. You see, he was IN a country
at war (busy killing commies with his MARS code key?) and knows
ALL about following orders. [the Vietnam War ended 30 years ago]
We all have to follow DAVIE's "orders." Especially the one on
MOTIVATION.

The best Dudly the Imposter has come up with is "he was in
'seven hostile actions'!" Dud has NEVER said the WHEN or
WHERE of those infamous "seven hostile actions." We must all
honor and praise Dud for his valor and heroism or forever be
recipients of emotional exaggerated personal insults.

I also consider it an accomplishment to have fulfilled my military
obligation after two courts-martial and the constant denigration from
others that resulted from them, a tactic that Dudly is trying to use.
What Dudly doesn't realize is that he can say nothing that I haven't
heard before and overcome. I proved them wrong and I'm proud of that
fact. So when Dudly (and now yourself) try to use the same demeaning
tactics I can only laugh.

Dudly doesn't understand that because his mindset works in
some strange personal fantasy via his computer. He lives by
exaggerated emotional phrases (most praising himself) and trying
to do a snow job (badly) on others about his "accomplishments."

Davie is probably just looking for a word fight with his
perceived "enemies." He is of a control-freak kind and does
NOT like ANYONE telling him "no" or what to do. He MUST "win"
these word fights and be "in the right."

Dave, I have no beef with you. I didn't feel it necessary to give you
-any- sort of explanation but I did anyway. If it wasn't enough, or if
you can't understand it, tough ****. But do you really feel the need
to defend Dudly -- a retired Marine Gunny, a CAP Major, a TN State
Guardsman, and a veteran of seven hostile actions -- against me, a
****bird PFC? If you do then you are only hurting Dudly's case, not
helping it. If you are going to stick up for Dudly, fine. As far as
I'm concerned, you two love-birds can row your boat out into the wash
together and do whatever it is that makes you two happy.

I suggest they both go see the premiere of the new film "Jarhead"
(as a couple). They can both get some emotional espirit d'corps.
Dudly can use the film's fiction for better embroidery of his
"hostile actions." Davie can get the emotional thrill of doing
battle "in-country" that ended over three decades ago. That
will get them all fired up to throw more hissy fits against other
veterans of the U.S. military who don't agree with their personal
opinions.