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An English Teacher
From: an old friend on Nov 28, 2:42 pm
wrote: wrote: From: on Nov 26, 4:11 pm wrote: From: on Fri, Nov 25 2005 4:26 pm wrote: Having seen some of the handwritten "comments" sent in on the 2,272 filings in WT Docket 98-143 and ALL of the 3,795 filings in WT Docket 05-235, some are a hilarious barrel of laffs! :-) [ chuckle, chuckle ] So you really don't know what you're talking about when you talk about FCC "chuckling" over some comments. he can make the same assumetion you can Mark, there's something curious about morsemen. They are very SERIOUS about their hobby and INTENSE on certain skills. Their sense of humor is limited only to THEM "laughing" at those who disagree on telegraphy testing. BTW, there's 3,796 filings now, one was added on the 28th. :-) By the way, Docket 98-143 had 303 ADDITIONAL filings after the twice-revised final end date of 15 Jan 05, the latest being made on 5 August 2005! :-) Why does that matter? becuase it isn't suposed to hapen at least if it does they are all supose to have been mailed before the deadline The specific date periods on comments applies to the Commission's activities on decision-making for a final Memorandum Report and Order. That date period is determined by statements made in the publishing of a docket/proceedure in the Federal Register. Standard practice at the FCC. In the case of publishing NPRM 05-143, the Commission was 6 calendar weeks LATE. NPRM 05-143 was opened to the public on 19 July 2005. Publishing in the Federal Register didn't happen until 31 August 2005. The date period for comments was not specifically stated in NPRM 05-143, was specifically stated in the Federal Register on 31 August 2005. The normal delay on public release to publishing is anywhere from zero days to a week. A few have taken longer, but it would be a VERY long search to find a docket/proceeding that was delayed SIX WEEKS. In those SIX WEEKS DELAY the public filed 52% of all comments filed. The "public" may not be fully aware of the official comment period beginning date. The Commission is fairly speedy on getting proceedings published in the Federal Register. The "public" does not consist of just attorneys and beaurocrats handling law, so they would generally be unaware of that delay. Such a long time was unexpected. why does it seem you don't care about the rul of of law when it suits you Jimmy Noserve only cares about the preservation of morse code, everything from "operating skill" to the license test. He can't bear to give up any of that. Oh, right...the ARRL TOLD YOU! Or you channeled St. Hiram on the subject and you got the number in a vision? FCC received over 6000 comments on the "incentive licensing" proposals, Len. Without the internet. That's a fact. indeed shwoing what a disaster the idea was how the ARRL tired to kill the ars Mark, Jimmy has NOT proven his "fact." The only way to determine that "fact" is to visit the FCC Reading Room in DC and view all the filings. Those old dockets and proceedings aren't on-line. As to "disaster," that is subjective opinion. In the long run, "incentive licensing" only served to harden the class distinction among licensees. It got too cumbersome for the future to the Commission, so they streamlined it via FCC 99-412. The League lobbied for, and got "incentive licensing." Old-timers of the League loved radiotelegraphy, following the "tradition" established by its first president, St. Hiram. Old-timers wanted to prove Their radiotelegraphy skill was the "highest" attribute of amateurism. They got it, complete with rank- status-privilege. Especially the privileges. They were better than anyone...in their minds. The beginning of the solid-state era had begun. The beginning had begun? Third graders write better than that, Len. bad jimmie Stevie job is to play speling cop Sister Nun of the Above got into the act, spanking ruler at the ready. She didn't hit anything, though. Sister apparently has never used the word "jibe," thought I was "jiving her." :-) You weren't a ham then and you're not one now. Morse Code is one form of excellence in radio, btw - then and now. only in your opinion and that of others Up to mid-2000, the highest-rate telegraphy skill was NECESSARY to achieve the "highest" class license. IMO it has been one of the banes of the ARS for decades True enough. But, look out, I can see Sister approaching with her ruler! She is going to criticize use of the word "bane!" :-) In other words, you had nothing to do with FCC then, either. "Nothing?!?" Mais non! Nothing. You didn't work for FCC, didn't have anything to do with FCC rules for the Amateur Radio Service. a flat out lie Jim he has had something to do with making the FCC rules as has Myself Bil Sohl yourself and a couple of thousand others Jimmy is getting desperate on "having to do with" stuff. :-) The FCC has had commentary periods for nearly all the major issues affecting U.S. radio amateurs since its creation in 1934. [exceptions are federal orders to cease transmission on Presidential orders and the "housekeeping" changes to Parts of Title 47 which regarded legal clarification of some regulations corrections] The Constitution of the United States gives all its citizens the Right to address their government...on anything. The comment period of dockets and proceedings at the FCC is one way to do that on specific radio regulatory issues. Jimmy seems very territorial. He regards federal amateur radio regulations as "private turf" which can ONLY be discussed by licensed radio operators to their government. That is wrong. The FCC must listen to ALL...including English teachers who haven't the foggiest notion of what "radio" is, let alone amateur radio (she had to research the subject through WikiPedia). :-) Both Bill Sohl and Carl Stevenson have appeared in-person before the FCC in regards to the code-test/no-code-test issue. That's about as close as ANY in here have been to the regulation-decision-makers without actually working there (as Phil Kane did). The Staff and Commissioners at the FCC decide what is to be changed and how to change radio regulations...DEPENDING on input from the "public." [a "researching" of Parts 0 and 1 of Title 47 C.F.R. will explain that, also the Communicaitons Act of 1934, a Law passed by Congress] Had already renewed that First Phone once...through the Long Beach, CA, FCC Field Office (which was/is in the San Pedro harbor area). I'd applied for, and gotten two CB licenses (no test, never was a test for them). Did FCC ever turn anybody down for a cb permit? Are you still on cb, Len? why should he not be on CB Citizens Band Radio Service had "permits?" :-) Strange, my forms said they were LICENSES. No tests at all required. Were any "turned down?" I don't really know. I've heard of those but never met anyone who was "turned down." I opt NOT to bother with CB radio since it is not to my needs in communicating anything by radio. The little two-way radio terminal called a "cell phone" serves both me and my wife very adequately in mobile communications needs. My old Johnson Viking Messenger CB radio still works, is still operating within FCC regulations. It is a relatively easy task to connect it up to an antenna (mag-mount) in the car, plug it into the car's 12 VDC system, and operate. If the vibrator high-voltage supply will continue working, it is as reliable as any old tube radio. [vibrator supplies were NEVER considered reliable, but they were terribly cheap in consumer grade tube equipments] Living within a mile of I-5 passing through has shown that a few channels for CB are way too few for the hundreds of thousands of CB users...years ago. Cbers seem by and large politeir than hams with folks they disagree with they can be a bit vulgar for my taste on the air, but there are 40 channels to choose from Irrelevant to Jimmy's remarks. All Jimmy wants to do is show contempt for CB. Since he was living in 1958 when that service (on the 27 MHz band) was created, he feels contemptuous of all who have not taken a federal test to "qualify" for radio transmission below 30 MHz. :-) [I think he was born an amateur...:-) ] CB communications are "Too vulgar?" I've heard much, much greater vulgarity in the military service (which Jimmy was never a part of nor will he ever be). I've heard greater vulgarity on shop floors from union members. I've heard greater vulgarity in the black sections of Los Angeles. I need to brush up on my Spanish to find out if the language there in the barrios is "too vulgar." :-) Like I said - you had nothing to do with amateur radio policy back then, nor with FCC's regulation of amateur radio... more lies Jim Jimmy, who never worked IN the FCC (and will never do so), thinks that just having an amateur license means he had "something to do with amateur radio regulations." :-) Jimmy is just being "vulgar." :-) Based on my "first job in radio" I already knew that morse code was a dead end in radio in 1964, 41 years ago. Well, you were wrong, Len. Because Morse Code is still alive and well in radio today. Tsk, tsk, Jimmy's working receiver can't pick up anything but the "low end" of the HF amateur bands...and he thinks that radiotelegraphy is still a big mode in radio? Incredible! Why bother pursuing a dying technique back then? Morse Code wasn't "dying" back then and it isn't "dying" now - in amateur radio, anyway. not what I hear You have to give Jimmy some slack, Mark. Since his receiver can't pick up anything outside the "low end" of HF ham bands, he thinks HF is still "alive with the sounds of morse code" (as if Julie Andrews were singing it on top of a hill). How many techniques did you pursue back then which are long gone - dead - now? Does anybody use 100 wpm teletypewriters anymore? Do broadcast stations have FCC licensed engineers on duty while they're on the air anymore? Etc. Actually, those electromechanical teletypewriters with 100 WPM throughput are still in use in a few places...but they are waaayyyyyy down in numbers. Teletype Corporation went defunct some years ago...they couldn't produce a product inexpensive enough to handle written communications needs. Even TDDs have dropped electromechanical teletypewriters in favor of smaller, easier to use solid-state terminals. The requirements for licensed COMMERCIAL radio operators at radio broadcasting stations is down but I haven't checked to see if broadcasting regulations changed to allow ALL. An amateur radio license was NEVER a "qualification" to operate anything but an amateur radio on amateur frequencies. Vacuum tube design and use in designs is almost kaput. The solid-state devices made most of them obsolete. Tubes remain only as very high-power transmitter final amplifiers, as wideband (one octave plus) amplifiers in microwaves, as magnetrons in microwave ovens, as assorted klystrons in microwave radios. CRTs are going bye-bye, replaced by solid- state displays in TV sets (to press a ****y point, "liquid- state" in LCD screens). A very few optical detection devices use multi-stage photomultipliers. NODs (Night Observation Devices) still depend on a special photodetector and photon multiplier tube set. Oh, and high-power radars still use pulsed maggies for those transmitters. Tubes are now used only as REPLACEMENTS...except by those who can't hack engineering of solid-state circuits...or long for days of yore, when they were born (or before). Your value system is very clear, Len - if something in radio took some of your time or effort but didn't pay back in dollars, you avoided it. if your statement is accurate (not comenting on that yea or nea) so what you value nothing without involing Morse Code Poor Jimmy is verging on a breakdown. He is picking up on the old socialist or communist sloganeering against evil, filthy capitalists who have obtained money the old fashioned way... they EARNED it! Jimmy sounds like he doesn't have much money. Tsk, tsk. I entered electronics and radio in the vacuum tube era and learned how to design circuits using tubes. Had to put aside everything but the basics of those circuits in order to work with transistors, then ICs. Took lots of learning AND relearning to do all that and I did it on my own time. It was worth it in the knowledge acquired, the experience gained in making successful designs, eminently satisfactory to me. Lots and lots of new things were learned out of sheer interest in learning more about NEW areas, things that were NOT of personal monetary gain. Jimmy can't shift out of his League-conditioned thinking about morsemanship being the ultimate skill in radio. He doesn't understand how it is to BEGIN in HF communications WITHOUT any morse code mode needs. He must really resent others who've entered the bigger world of radio communications without being required in any way to be morsemen. you can use money to feed yourself can't do that with morse One can waste a LOT of time looking for radiotelegraphy jobs! Those are quite scarce! If Jimmy wasn't so old, he could join the Army and be an "army of one" analyzing foreign morse code radio intercepts (but I'll bet he would hate the Ft. Huachuca M.I. school in the summertime). I doubt there is one job opening in the entire USA that requires any manual telegraphy (morse code) skills for wired communications now. If he joined SAG or SEG he might get a part in some western movie or TV show as an actor playing the part of a telegrapher. Well, Jimmy could go to sea if he got a Radiotelegraph (Commercial) license. Problem is, he'd have to use SSB voice, one of the TORs (Teletypewriter Over Radio), and VHF FM voice for most ship masters. Jimmy wouldn't like that. He couldn't pop into the galley and cook big turkeys at his whim. Confusion say: Man with one-track mind often get train of thought derailed. bit bit |
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An English Teacher
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An English Teacher
On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:26:39 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote: wrote: From: an old friend on Nov 28, 2:42 pm wrote: wrote: From: on Nov 26, 4:11 pm wrote: From: on Fri, Nov 25 2005 4:26 pm wrote: Mark, there's something curious about morsemen. I'm sure that you find any number of things curious, Leonard, like why would anyone devote the time and energy to learning a skill which can earn them no money and which you believe is quite useless? at the risk of being wrong lety me guess Len does not find that curious They are very SERIOUS about their hobby and INTENSE on certain skills. Perhaps you meant that they put serious effort into learning the material required for obtaining an HF amateur radio license and were INTENT on passing the exams. nope I am sure he did not mena it so you are trying by infeence Their sense of humor is limited only to THEM "laughing" at those who disagree on telegraphy testing. Since you are on the outside of amateur radio and you disagree on morse code testing, I can understand how you came to that conclusion. Radio amateurs who favor retention of the morse test can and do laugh at many other things. You write only from your experience. gee the insiders come to that conclusion too the insider and the outsider both agree The beginning of the solid-state era had begun. The beginning had begun? Third graders write better than that, Len. bad jimmie Stevie job is to play speling cop Sister Nun of the Above got into the act, spanking ruler at the ready. She didn't hit anything, though. I'm sure I heard a dull thud as you were struck amidships. now you are hearing thing Dave K8MN everyone should be advised that The following person has been advocating the abuse of elders he may also be making flase reports of abusing other in order to attak and cow his foes he also shows signs of being dangerously unstable STEVEN J ROBESON 151 12TH AVE NW WINCHESTER TN 37398 931-967-6282 _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 140,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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An English Teacher
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:26:17 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote: wrote: From: an old friend on Nov 28, 2:42 pm wrote: wrote: From: on Nov 26, 4:11 pm wrote: From: on Fri, Nov 25 2005 4:26 pm wrote: I opt NOT to bother with CB radio since it is not to my needs in communicating anything by radio. The little two-way radio terminal called a "cell phone" serves both me and my wife very adequately in mobile communications needs. You're quite right, sir. A cell phone meets your needs. You needn't bother with CB or amateur radio. indeed he NEED and you need not My old Johnson...still works... That's nice. Jimmy, who never worked IN the FCC (and will never do so), thinks that just having an amateur license means he had "something to do with amateur radio regulations." :-) Will you ever work IN the FCC, Len? is something lacking in your reading skil dave it seems that way Morse Code wasn't "dying" back then and it isn't "dying" now - in amateur radio, anyway. not what I hear You have to give Jimmy some slack, Mark. Since his receiver can't pick up anything outside the "low end" of HF ham bands, he thinks HF is still "alive with the sounds of morse code" (as if Julie Andrews were singing it on top of a hill). Does your venerable Icom receiver still hit the bottom end of the HF ham bands, Leonard? You must think morse code is dead, poor morse is dead (as if Gordon McRae were singing it out by the corral). no he doesn't think is dead just dying I do too just not fast enough you Jim and steve certain makes a decent case for the notion that CW uUSE casues brain damage in some people Dave K8MN everyone should be advised that The following person has been advocating the abuse of elders he may also be making flase reports of abusing other in order to attak and cow his foes he also shows signs of being dangerously unstable STEVEN J ROBESON 151 12TH AVE NW WINCHESTER TN 37398 931-967-6282 _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 140,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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An English Teacher
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:26:17 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote: wrote: From: an old friend on Nov 28, 2:42 pm wrote: wrote: From: on Nov 26, 4:11 pm wrote: From: on Fri, Nov 25 2005 4:26 pm wrote: I opt NOT to bother with CB radio since it is not to my needs in communicating anything by radio. The little two-way radio terminal called a "cell phone" serves both me and my wife very adequately in mobile communications needs. You're quite right, sir. A cell phone meets your needs. You needn't bother with CB or amateur radio. indeed he NEED and you need not My old Johnson...still works... That's nice. Jimmy, who never worked IN the FCC (and will never do so), thinks that just having an amateur license means he had "something to do with amateur radio regulations." :-) Will you ever work IN the FCC, Len? is something lacking in your reading skil dave it seems that way Morse Code wasn't "dying" back then and it isn't "dying" now - in amateur radio, anyway. not what I hear You have to give Jimmy some slack, Mark. Since his receiver can't pick up anything outside the "low end" of HF ham bands, he thinks HF is still "alive with the sounds of morse code" (as if Julie Andrews were singing it on top of a hill). Does your venerable Icom receiver still hit the bottom end of the HF ham bands, Leonard? You must think morse code is dead, poor morse is dead (as if Gordon McRae were singing it out by the corral). no he doesn't think is dead just dying I do too just not fast enough you Jim and steve certain makes a decent case for the notion that CW uUSE casues brain damage in some people Dave K8MN everyone should be advised that The following person has been advocating the abuse of elders he may also be making flase reports of abusing other in order to attak and cow his foes he also shows signs of being dangerously unstable STEVEN J ROBESON 151 12TH AVE NW WINCHESTER TN 37398 931-967-6282 _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 140,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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An English Teacher
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An English Teacher
wrote After the incentive licnesing rules went into effect in the 1967-1969 period, the number of US hams began to grow much faster than it had during the 1960s. The growth of the 1970s continued into the 1980s. Are you suggesting that making it tougher to get full privileges was the cause that accelerated the growth of the ARS? That has to qualify as the most outrageous notion to hit RRAP (outside the dump huck posts from Mark) in the current century. Clearly other "market forces" were in play for the ARS to enjoy the popularity it did in the post-Sputnik years. Science was "cool" and the hot ticket for education and career planning. Scientifiic-seeming hobbies like electronics, radio, and astronomy were beneficiaries of this attitude. If anything, dis-incentive licensing was a damper (not an accelerant) on the growth of the ARS during that period. If incentive licensing was so awful, why was there so much growth in the ARS in the two decades after it was put in place? Can you imagine how much more growth we'd have had without its repressive effects on our hobby! 73, de Hans, K0HB |
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An English Teacher
KØHB wrote: wrote After the incentive licnesing rules went into effect in the 1967-1969 period, the number of US hams began to grow much faster than it had during the 1960s. The growth of the 1970s continued into the 1980s. Are you suggesting that making it tougher to get full privileges was the cause that accelerated the growth of the ARS? No, Hans. Correlation is not causation. That has to qualify as the most outrageous notion to hit RRAP (outside the dump huck posts from Mark) in the current century. Why? Do you say it's impossible with no evidence? Look at the facts: When US hams were allowed back on the air in late 1945, there were about 60,000 US amateurs. By the time of the 1951 restructuring, the total had reached about 90,000 - even though back then the "entry-level" license was equivalent to what would later be the General. Of course a good bit of that growth was pent-up demand from the WW2 shutdown, returning servicemen who'd learned radio in the military, etc. From the 1951 restructuring to 1964, the number of US hams went from about 90,000 to about 250,000 - and then the growth stopped dead, even though incentive licensing would not take effect until several years later (1968). Clearly other "market forces" were in play for the ARS to enjoy the popularity it did in the post-Sputnik years. Sputnik went up in 1957 IIRC. Science was "cool" and the hot ticket for education and career planning. Scientifiic-seeming hobbies like electronics, radio, and astronomy were beneficiaries of this attitude. Sort of. When Sputnik was launched, there was widespread consternation because the US was perceived to be lagging the USSR in the "space race". It did not help that the Soviets kept being the first to do things in space time and again for several years in the late 1950s and early 1960s. First animal in space - first human in space, first human to orbit, first woman in space, first pictures of the far side of the Moon - the list goes on and on. The USA was playing catch-up for several years. Most of all, the post WW2 growth ended *before* incentive licensing. And the incentive licensing changes did not make any big changes to the Novice or Technician, and did not remove any power, modes or bands from the General or Advanced. If anything, dis-incentive licensing was a damper (not an accelerant) on the growth ofthe ARS during that period. Really? Then *why* did the growth start up again after it was in place, after almost half a decade of stagnation and even some decline? Why did the number of US hams grow so fast in the 1970s and 1980s? If you want to talk about "market forces", consider these: - The 1960s were a very turbulent time, particularly for young people. Many were more interested in political/social causes than in "establishment" activities like amateur radio. - The "space race" and the technological advances it brought made amateur radio look a little old-fashioned in some ways. Remember Christmas Eve 1968, when the crew of Apollo 8 showed us the Earth from lunar orbit via live TV? How could any terrestrial "DX" compete with that? - CB radio, established in 1958, became popular in the mid-1960s as more and more people found out about it. No test at all, inexpensive, easy-to-use equipment, very little effort or skill needed to install or use cb. - Up until the 1960s, many newcomers were introduced to amateur radio by hearing hams using AM voice on the HF ham bands, particularly 75 meters. There was a natural progression from SWL to ham radio. But by the early 1960s, the HF ham bands were more full of SSB voice than AM. Many SWLs didn't know how to tune in SSB. Many if not most lowcost SWL-type receivers didn't have BFOs, or the slow tuning rate and stability needed to tune in SSB easily. - Up until 1964 or so, a considerable part of the USA was "Conditional country" - meaning that a trip to an FCC exam point was not needed for a lot of potential hams. But around 1964, FCC changed the distance requirement from 75 to 175 miles, and increased the number of exam locations so that very little of CONUS was "Conditional country" anymore. This meant a lot of hams who wanted Generals or above had to travel considerable distances to an FCC exam session, rather than going a few miles to a local ham acting as a volunteer examiner. If incentive licensing was so awful, why was there so much growth in the ARS in the two decades after it was put in place? Can you imagine how much more growth we'd have had without its repressive effects on our hobby! What repressive effects? The Novice and Technician did not really change under IL, except that the Novice license term was extended to two years in 1967. The upgrade to General was the same. Advanced just required another written test. And the tests weren't all that hard, really, even back then. I got the Advanced at age 14, in the summer between 8th and 9th grades. Extra two years later, and it only took that long because of the experience requirement. How "hard" could it have been if even a self-taught-in-radio kid with no hams in the family could do that? I remember how much wailing and gnashing of teeth there was back then. I was amazed that experienced hams were so intimidated by having to take another test or two. And this was in the Philadelphia metro area, where getting to an FCC exam session meant a quick subway ride, not a long cross-country journey. But since about the mid 1980s, we've been told that the requirements are "too high" and they keep being lowered. Yet the growth resulting isn't sustained. Maybe the very people we want to attract are those who want a challenge. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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