In article , mad
amoeba wrote:

I was affected by the recent blackout in North East. That got me thinking of
how would
one communicate during such an event. Electricity including phones were
out.

This is not true. There were long lines to use payphones, and most home
and business phones worked.

Cellular phones didn't work either.

This is also mostly not true. Most cell systems were overloaded, but
the carrier signals were largely still operating, due to back up
batteries and generators.

--Tim May

were i am none of the public phones worked and most of the cellular phones
didnt worked either--ie verizon.

"Tim May" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:53:44 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote:

were i am none of the public phones worked and most of the cellular phones
didnt worked either--ie verizon.

"Tim May" wrote in message
t...

Just to clairify in my mind, neither analog nor digital [CMDA, etc] ?

Rather limits the usefulness of mobiles if a mere power failure can
take them out.

However, is 2 metres any better?

erniegalts




"_Magna est veritas et praevalebit"_
(Truth is mighty and will prevail).
{erniegalts}
{Australia}
{misc.survivalism}

Tim May ) writes:
In article , mad
amoeba wrote:

I was affected by the recent blackout in North East. That got me thinking of
how would
one communicate during such an event. Electricity including phones were
out.

This is not true. There were long lines to use payphones, and most home
and business phones worked.

I wasn't in the blackout area, but one thing I heard on the radio here
was that people did suffer from lack of phones, because they had only
cordless phones, which of course need power from the AC line. They
couldn't use those phones, and likely some/many thought the phone
lines were down. Only people who had real phones, that get their
limited power needs from the phone line, would know that the phones
were in fact running. I know cordless phones are pretty widespread
at this point, but I have no idea how many households have nothing but
a cordless phone.

Even if phone systems weren't working, one of the things to remember
is that other things come into play in an urban area. If the phone doesn't
work, then you have your neighbors to talk to. If the phones don't work,
then emergency systems will come into effect, so there will be means of
getting welfare traffic out. For that matter, emergency systems will come
into play to handle local emergency calls.

I think it's a bit of a myth to suggest that amateur radio is a means
for the individual to keep in communication during an emergency.
Amateur radios place in an emergency has always been in terms of
organized help.

So hams work with the Red Cross to supply non-emergency communication to
get around faults and blockades. It's not the place for "help me" messages,
it's the welfare messages "I am fine, don't worry" or maybe even "I won't
be coming this weekend, the airports are closed" things that might be
important but not of high priority.

And if the emergency warrants it, hams can supply local communcation as
an auxiliary to emergency services. So in some cases, hams could
be a way of providing some sort of replacement for phone lines, with
them placed in important points where it's known people can get to
if they need to communicate.

It's also quite organized, and those hams working in such public
service work prepare for emergencies. Ham radio is not a utility,
so unless the emergency framework is in place, someone getting a license
"in case of an emergency" may not find it all that useful, because as
mentioned the familiar people you want to talk to likely aren't licensed,
and in an emergency one might find the bands crowded with the organized
communication, and for instance, someone doing phone patches may not
feel like dealing with some guy off the street.

In a rural area, I suspect the benefits of amateur radio to the individual
may increase significantly, but then that's the case when there's no
emergency.

And if someone is interested in emergency work, then it probably is
worthwhile getting a ham license, because that will mean one more person
who can help out when an emergency comes up.

Michael

Wired telephones worked well for contact of distant family during the
blackout as long as they have hardwired phones on the other end. Too many
cordless units lack base units with battery backup. I ran my house on a 5kw
generator until the power came back. The first 30 minutes I ran the radios
and computers on a 2000 VA UPS

N2UBP

again it wasnt true in my case. Me and my relative all have at least one
hardwired phone and i could not use the phone to contact them from the
4:10PM on Thursday till about 7PM on Friday.

"Steve Stone" wrote in message
...
Wired telephones worked well for contact of distant family during the
blackout as long as they have hardwired phones on the other end. Too many
cordless units lack base units with battery backup. I ran my house on a
5kw
generator until the power came back. The first 30 minutes I ran the radios
and computers on a 2000 VA UPS

N2UBP

i have both cordless phone and an old type phone in my house where the
handset is connected to the base station. Neiher one was working. If I had
to contact either cops or amublance i would have no way of doing that except
of standing on the street and waiting for the cop car to pass by. That's why
i asked the question of how one would keep a line of communications if the
regular ones were out.

"Michael Black" wrote in message
...
Tim May ) writes:
In article , mad
amoeba wrote:

I was affected by the recent blackout in North East. That got me
thinking of
how would
one communicate during such an event. Electricity including phones
were
out.

This is not true. There were long lines to use payphones, and most home
and business phones worked.

I wasn't in the blackout area, but one thing I heard on the radio here
was that people did suffer from lack of phones, because they had only
cordless phones, which of course need power from the AC line. They
couldn't use those phones, and likely some/many thought the phone
lines were down. Only people who had real phones, that get their
limited power needs from the phone line, would know that the phones
were in fact running. I know cordless phones are pretty widespread
at this point, but I have no idea how many households have nothing but
a cordless phone.

Even if phone systems weren't working, one of the things to remember
is that other things come into play in an urban area. If the phone
doesn't
work, then you have your neighbors to talk to. If the phones don't work,
then emergency systems will come into effect, so there will be means of
getting welfare traffic out. For that matter, emergency systems will come
into play to handle local emergency calls.

I think it's a bit of a myth to suggest that amateur radio is a means
for the individual to keep in communication during an emergency.
Amateur radios place in an emergency has always been in terms of
organized help.

So hams work with the Red Cross to supply non-emergency communication to
get around faults and blockades. It's not the place for "help me"
messages,
it's the welfare messages "I am fine, don't worry" or maybe even "I won't
be coming this weekend, the airports are closed" things that might be
important but not of high priority.

And if the emergency warrants it, hams can supply local communcation as
an auxiliary to emergency services. So in some cases, hams could
be a way of providing some sort of replacement for phone lines, with
them placed in important points where it's known people can get to
if they need to communicate.

It's also quite organized, and those hams working in such public
service work prepare for emergencies. Ham radio is not a utility,
so unless the emergency framework is in place, someone getting a license
"in case of an emergency" may not find it all that useful, because as
mentioned the familiar people you want to talk to likely aren't licensed,
and in an emergency one might find the bands crowded with the organized
communication, and for instance, someone doing phone patches may not
feel like dealing with some guy off the street.

In a rural area, I suspect the benefits of amateur radio to the individual
may increase significantly, but then that's the case when there's no
emergency.

And if someone is interested in emergency work, then it probably is
worthwhile getting a ham license, because that will mean one more person
who can help out when an emergency comes up.

Michael

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:03:05 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote:

i have both cordless phone and an old type phone in my house where the
handset is connected to the base station. Neiher one was working. If I had
to contact either cops or amublance i would have no way of doing that except
of standing on the street and waiting for the cop car to pass by. That's why
i asked the question of how one would keep a line of communications if the
regular ones were out.

Doesn't surprise me all that much that digital or analog mobiles
wouldn't be working, but would think that landlines should have been.

I would expect my landline phone to work for at least 12 hours on a
power failure, and if it didn't would be asking a lot of questions if
it wasn't.

If cannot reliably use a telephone for police, fire, or ambulance
coverage what the hell good is it?

Better to have a good CB or amateur radio transceiver. Other than
emergency use and dialup connection for internet many people could
easily get along without a phone.

Not difficult to get an amateur license these days now that the code
requirement has been wiped. Anyone who knows a bit about radio should
be able to study the regs and pass an exam allowing VHF operation on 2
metres, and the "general class" [ or "full call" ] exam is not that
much harder.

Passing thought: Don't assume that everyone with an amateur license
is going to advertise the fact. If reveal call letters, then name
and address is trackable.

Very dangerous to reveal true name and address on misc.survivalism,
as there are people on misc.survivalism who will not only accuse you
of criminal activities but even make death threats. This warning
especially applies to anyone outside of the USA whatever their
citizenship.

Take it from me. Been there, done that. May be able to offer more
info by email of don't think it is an entrapment excercise.

Maybe better for anyone outside the US to post questions on the
misc.survivalism group and see how they are answered.

If anyone would like to check my past posting history on the
misc.survivalism newsgroup it is easy enough to do by checking through
advanced group search in "Google".

My earlier posts were from another pseudonym, "

I stand on my previous record of useful posts no matter how some on
misc.survivalism are now falsely accusing me.

If any reader who is contemplating posting on this group has any
doubts they might like to ask my accusers for any proof of their
libellous statements.

Am also willing to answer genuine email enquiries.





"Michael Black" wrote in message
...
Tim May ) writes:
In article , mad
amoeba wrote:

I was affected by the recent blackout in North East. That got me
thinking of
how would
one communicate during such an event. Electricity including phones
were
out.

This is not true. There were long lines to use payphones, and most home
and business phones worked.

I wasn't in the blackout area, but one thing I heard on the radio here
was that people did suffer from lack of phones, because they had only
cordless phones, which of course need power from the AC line. They
couldn't use those phones, and likely some/many thought the phone
lines were down. Only people who had real phones, that get their
limited power needs from the phone line, would know that the phones
were in fact running. I know cordless phones are pretty widespread
at this point, but I have no idea how many households have nothing but
a cordless phone.

Even if phone systems weren't working, one of the things to remember
is that other things come into play in an urban area. If the phone
doesn't
work, then you have your neighbors to talk to. If the phones don't work,
then emergency systems will come into effect, so there will be means of
getting welfare traffic out. For that matter, emergency systems will come
into play to handle local emergency calls.

I think it's a bit of a myth to suggest that amateur radio is a means
for the individual to keep in communication during an emergency.
Amateur radios place in an emergency has always been in terms of
organized help.

So hams work with the Red Cross to supply non-emergency communication to
get around faults and blockades. It's not the place for "help me"
messages,
it's the welfare messages "I am fine, don't worry" or maybe even "I won't
be coming this weekend, the airports are closed" things that might be
important but not of high priority.

And if the emergency warrants it, hams can supply local communcation as
an auxiliary to emergency services. So in some cases, hams could
be a way of providing some sort of replacement for phone lines, with
them placed in important points where it's known people can get to
if they need to communicate.

It's also quite organized, and those hams working in such public
service work prepare for emergencies. Ham radio is not a utility,
so unless the emergency framework is in place, someone getting a license
"in case of an emergency" may not find it all that useful, because as
mentioned the familiar people you want to talk to likely aren't licensed,
and in an emergency one might find the bands crowded with the organized
communication, and for instance, someone doing phone patches may not
feel like dealing with some guy off the street.

In a rural area, I suspect the benefits of amateur radio to the individual
may increase significantly, but then that's the case when there's no
emergency.

And if someone is interested in emergency work, then it probably is
worthwhile getting a ham license, because that will mean one more person
who can help out when an emergency comes up.

Michael

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:39:14 GMT, erniegalts
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:03:05 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote:

Not difficult to get an amateur license these days now that the code
requirement has been wiped. Anyone who knows a bit about radio should
be able to study the regs and pass an exam allowing VHF operation on 2
metres, and the "general class" [ or "full call" ] exam is not that
much harder.

General Class license still requires a Morse Code test. Morse has not
been "wiped." It has however, been lowered for the two higher class
licenses from 13 and 20 wpm to 5 wpm for both licenses. Morse is not
required for the Technician license which give full priviliges on
VHF/UHF.

So, once again ernie, you are wrong.

http://www.arrl.org/pio/hamlic.html

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:03:05 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote:

i have both cordless phone and an old type phone in my house where the
handset is connected to the base station. Neiher one was working. If I had
to contact either cops or amublance i would have no way of doing that except
of standing on the street and waiting for the cop car to pass by. That's why
i asked the question of how one would keep a line of communications if the
regular ones were out.
snip

well,... I guess i can add this question. is your wired phone
attached to Cable? i understand that in alot of metro areas, the
cable companies are now offering phone service across their lines. I
don't know anything about the equipment but this could be a issue if
the power goes out.

My cordless phone has a place for a 2nd batter to be charged for the
handset. in the event of a power outage, I can still use my cordless
for upto 3-4 hours. and I have my cable connection on a UPS,.. plenty
of time for me to use my laptop (which i can make iNet calls on if
needed) to notify anyone of need..

being a Ham - I look for equipment i can run off of 12v. I have a 12v
drill that i can power my PDA from, charge my cell phone, and work
with if needed. Push comes to shove,.. got the battery in the truck
too.