In rec.radio.scanner mad amoeba wrote:
(all of it snipped)

Sorry, if this has been mentioned (I can't read all 60 replies) but ..

While the radio in question can recieve shortwave, it can't transmit
there (and even if you could modify it to .. it would still only be FM and
low powered)

Without "repeaters" a hand held ham radio is very, very limited in range.

There are other possibilites .. such as the Yaesu 817, but you'd need a
higher class of ham licence and (realistically) a bigger, better antenna
(and a lot of luck) for HF (High Frequency .. aka 'shortwave')
communications.

Richard in Boston, MA, USA

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:57:20 GMT, KB9WFK wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:21:51 -0500, "Markeau"
wrote:

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message

You need a license if you want to transmit legally.

Would the FCC prosecute someone for using a ham rig without a license
if there were no other way to communicate that someone was injured or
other "emergency" help was needed? Seems like a mobile ham rig would
be a nice backup in such cases.

As long as it is a true emergency then anyone can use any frequency
available to them. Just 'injured' may not be enough, but any life
threatening situation will justify it. That includes police freqs.

AFIK, that is correct.

However, as has been pointed out before, "the devil is in the
details".

Can you "prove" that you needed to use these frequencies? If you
stop to help a victim of a road accident, can you "prove" that it was
necessary to move him? [Yeah, he may have run into a tree, his car
is on fire, but can you safely drag him out? Depends on whether your
state has a "Good Samaritan Law" perhaps?]

Can person "A" legally kill person "B"? Depends on the
circumstances, actually.

"You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable
discussion."
'Alan Connor'

Ah well, whatever you think I suppose. How long have you posted on
misc.survivalism?

erniegalts

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 03:01:27 GMT, erniegalts
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 20:30:33 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:13:23 GMT, erniegalts
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 04:07:28 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 07:51:40 GMT, erniegalts
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 06:54:36 GMT, Hagbard Celine
wrote:

Bob Brock wrote:

General Class license still requires a Morse Code test. Morse has not
been "wiped." It has however, been lowered for the two higher class
licenses from 13 and 20 wpm to 5 wpm for both licenses. Morse is not
required for the Technician license which give full priviliges on
VHF/UHF.

So, once again ernie, you are wrong.

Not required here for some years now, at least for what you are
calling a "Technician license" which covers 2 metres and is useful for
communication in that band.

Are you going to call me wrong on this issue???

Please advise.

Which issue do you want me to call you wrong on ernie? The first
piece of inaccurate information that you posted of this metamorphisis
of it?

On your initial statement, yes you were wrong. In case you forgot
this was your initial statement...

"Not difficult to get an amateur license these days now that the code
requirement has been wiped. Anyone who knows a bit about radio should
be able to study the regs and pass an exam allowing VHF operation on 2
metres, and the "general class" [ or "full call" ] exam is not that
much harder."


Don't know the siatuation there, Brock, but the requirement has been
wiped here

So, you are telling the guy in the NE US to move to Oz to get his
license? BTW, that news article was only a month ago. Does the
government in Oz move that fast? I don't think so....

Dunno if they have or not, haven't bothered to check. The issue is
that you have accused me of being in error, and I have proved you
wrong.

No you haven't ernie. Morse Code is still required for amatuer HF in
the US where he lived.

You cannot logically blame me if you refuse to keep up with current
news on such issues, and this was more than a month ago.

Perhaps you don't belong to the ARRL, or perhaps they haven't
mentioned this issue?

Or perhaps since neither he nor I live in Oz, I simply don't care
ernie. You are so binary in your thinking.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:47:57 -0400, "Bill Crocker"
wrote:

Most all the hand-held amateur radio equipment, is almost useless without
the aid of a repeater station.

That is a rather broad statement. It depends greatly on where you
live (or are) in relation to where you want to talk to. I live in a
very ham dense area and can make dozens of contacts on simplex.

I don't know how many repeaters are backed
up by emergency power supplies. I would hope most of them, but if they're
not, don't plan on reaching anyone more than a couple miles away.

Glancing through the repeater directory, I'd guess about a third of
them.
How do you define, "a couple of miles"? My Icom T2H (a 7 Watt hand
held) can make it from my house to the repeater 18 miles away. If I
can hit that repeater then I can talk to anyone between it and me on
simplex, and that is with the rubber duck antenna. Using a home made
twin-lead J-Pole antenna I talked on the repeater from downtown
Chicago which is a 36 miles trip.
On 2 Meters, get your antenna high and you can really reach out.
Height is Might.


H.F. equipment, on the other hand, is usually at least 50~100 watts, and has
the ability to reach extremely long distances, without the need of a
repeater.

Wattage doesn't mean a whole lot with HF because it isn't the power
that enables the longer distances. My 2 Meter rigs at home are 50
Watts. Actually, most HF rigs are 5 to 10 Watts and an external amp
will be used to increase power. Depending on conditions, you can talk
all 50 states with 10 Watts on HF.


When you think about it, standard C.B. radio equipment should do well,
providing there is someone available on the other end.

IF you are in an area with CB users and IF they are helpful and not
just kids wanting to screw around. Also, CB, being limited to 4 Watts
is typicallty very short range. If you are in an area with a lot of
CB users that are 'adult' and use it as a tool then it may be the
proper answer. Same for FRS and GMRS. Where I am, CB is worthless
due to the people that use it. If you can't top someone elses signal
then you aren't going to talk.


Bill Crocker

KB9WFK



"You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable
discussion."
'Alan Connor'

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:08:19 -0400, Rex Tincher
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:12:21 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote:

snip
As far as I understand this is an handheld ham radio

So it requires a ham radio license. Scroll down the page at
http://www.arrl.org/hamradio.html
for info on getting a ham license.

which also functions as
a scanner and
can also receive on a shortwave band. So it will allow me to communicate
with people
far away even in urban setting, it is portable and it will also allow me to
monitor news as
well as police/firefighters etc. Am I right?

Yes. Except that 2 meter and 440 MHz radios, especially small ones,
have limited range of only a few miles. They depend on repeaters to
relay their messages long distances, and the repeaters run on electric
power.

How do you define "a few miles"? Like I said in another post, I can
go 18 miles on my 7 Watt 2 Meter HT. Put a decent antenna on it and I
can talk a lot further. Our club repeater has over a 50 mile range
and only puts out 25 Watts.
Depending on usage, our repeater can go 4 or 5 days with no outside
power.

KB9WFK


Yaesu VX-2R
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/0176.html
snip

"You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable
discussion."
'Alan Connor'

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 20:30:33 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:13:23 GMT, erniegalts
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 04:07:28 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 07:51:40 GMT, erniegalts
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 06:54:36 GMT, Hagbard Celine
wrote:

Bob Brock wrote:

General Class license still requires a Morse Code test. Morse has not
been "wiped." It has however, been lowered for the two higher class
licenses from 13 and 20 wpm to 5 wpm for both licenses. Morse is not
required for the Technician license which give full priviliges on
VHF/UHF.

So, once again ernie, you are wrong.

Not required here for some years now, at least for what you are
calling a "Technician license" which covers 2 metres and is useful for
communication in that band.

Are you going to call me wrong on this issue???

Please advise.

Which issue do you want me to call you wrong on ernie? The first
piece of inaccurate information that you posted of this metamorphisis
of it?

On your initial statement, yes you were wrong. In case you forgot
this was your initial statement...

"Not difficult to get an amateur license these days now that the code
requirement has been wiped. Anyone who knows a bit about radio should
be able to study the regs and pass an exam allowing VHF operation on 2
metres, and the "general class" [ or "full call" ] exam is not that
much harder."


Don't know the siatuation there, Brock, but the requirement has been
wiped here

So, you are telling the guy in the NE US to move to Oz to get his
license? BTW, that news article was only a month ago. Does the
government in Oz move that fast? I don't think so....


Me either, and I doubt they would take it upon themselves to go
against international treaty to do so.


"You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable
discussion."
'Alan Connor'

i glad to hear at least someone cares about their costumers. What other
providers besides verizon were working at least for a while.?

Trooperdude wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:07:07 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote:

I know that there are several providers and most of them were out. I
might
be wrong about Verizon but most of the cellular phone were out of action
which was my point. Because if that's why most people have cellulars so
that
no matter where they are or what happens they can contact their family
etc.
But now as far as im concerned cellulars are not reliable.

Perhaps not reliable for the "average" person.

Verizon kept a percentage of capacity in reserve for public safety,
and the new public safety phones have priority, so will knock "no
priority" calls off the tower if they place a call.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 14:13:45 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


"erniegalts" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:53:44 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote:

were i am none of the public phones worked and most of the cellular
phones
didnt worked either--ie verizon.

"Tim May" wrote in message
t...

Just to clairify in my mind, neither analog nor digital [CMDA, etc] ?

Rather limits the usefulness of mobiles if a mere power failure can
take them out.

However, is 2 metres any better?


Yes 2 meters is better as, if necessary, we can relay messages ham to ham to
the final destination if our repeaters are out. Plus of course we hams can
use other frequencies. If 2 meters isn't getting the job done for relatively
local communications, we can go to something that has a good ground wave
(such as 80 meters) and cover quite an extended local area very easily.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

True, but was thinking more along the lines of carrying a 2-metre
handheld, which a lot of hams here tend to carry around. Haven't seen
any 80 meter handhelds, although if had a mobile covering all amateur
bands would no doubt be very useful in an emergency, especially if had
one of the old ones which would transmit outside amateur bands.

To save time will quote one of my earlier posts to misc.survivalism.
--------------------------------------
From:
Subject: Survival test failed
Date: 2000/08/10
Message-ID:
X-Trace: ozemail.com.au 965832566 203.102.215.100 (Thu, 10 Aug 2000
00:49:26 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 00:49:26 EST
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism

7== Some of you may have seen a TV series called "Eye of the Storm".
One episode dealt with the destruction of Darwin, Northern Territory,
by Cyclone Tracy on Christmas Eve/ early Christmas morning 1974.
No services including power and phones. Darwin had a huge Radio
Australia shortwave transmitter, an RAAF air base, and a RAN navy
base...but guess who got the first message out to the rest of
Australia. A radio amateur, of course. :-)

The peak of the destruction was around 0330 to 0400, and from memory
it wasn't until 0600 or 0700 that the media in the rest of the country
announced the story. Not sure when the first message actually got
out. Remarkably enough, death toll was only around 70.

The city was pretty well flattened. At the time of the cyclone,
population was around 46,000 people and area was 233 square kilometres
[about 90 square miles]. Depending on just where draw the boundaries
of the city have the choice of two damage reports. One says that
3,000 houses survived out of 12,000, the other says that only 400
survived intact out of 8,200.

Unlike the US, Australia doesn't have a lot of cities or towns. The
nearest towns of any size would have been Alice Springs to the south
and Mt. Isa, Queensland to the southwest, both about 1,200 km [745
miles] away by road. So a massive airlift had to be organized.
30,000 people were airlifted out in first 8 days, women and children
out in first 6 days.

No choice, really. No power, no phones, no city water, not much
undamaged food. Darwin is tropical, being 12º27' south of the
equator, and, since seasons are reversed here, was midsummer. Posted
a bit on the evacuation in item #5 Newsgroups: misc.survivalism ///
Subject: severely wounded, administering morphine /// Date: Fri,
16 Jun 2000 09:36:39 +1000 ///
Message-ID: ]

One of the reasons damage was so great is that most homes were built
in what was then a very popular tropical style. Most of the house was
on columns or pilings about 8 feet off the ground. At ground level
was usually a brick bathroom and laundry, with an internal staircase
up to the house. Rest of the area under the house was used as a
carport. Main reason for this style of construction was for
protection against tropical termites, which would even eat through the
lead sheathing on telephone cables. Was also cooler than a building
on ground level.

Not too great for resisting a cyclone such as Tracy, though. City has
since been completely rebuilt, no sign of the cyclone damage.
------------------------------------------------

erniegalts

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 15:05:30 GMT, helmsman
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 14:38:55 GMT, Ron Hardin
wrote:

What's wrong with not communicating during a blackout? It's a perfect
time to do something else.

Depending on the emergency it may cost you your life :'(

Some good points on this list!

The best way to communicate is with a ham radio. Here is a list "THAT
SHOULD BE PRINTED NOW!!"
and put away so you have it of information that will help during the
next time something goe's wrong.
A short list of things and facts to have on hand if things start
looking grim - If you print this you will ALWAYS have it.
o A normally active adult needs to drink at least two quarts of water
daily. Intense physical activity can double that amount. Children,
nursing mothers and people in poor health will need more.
o A medium size dog requires about one gallon of water per day; a cat,
about one pint.
o City water is generally already treated. No additional treatment is
necessary unless the system is compromised.

Which it is likely to be, especially following a power failure, flood
or earthquake. All city water systems have lots of major and minor
leaks. Household meter readings will never total the reading on the
master meter with the possible exception of a brand new system.

Minor leaks cannot be located and repaired until water shows up on the
surface, and in sandy or gravelly subsoils often has to be a large
leak before it will show up.

Pipes often run through soil with chemical or bacteriological
contamination, and the only thing that keeps the system safe is that
it is normally constantly pressurized. However, if the pressure
fails, then people drawing water from lines on a slope or hill will
cause a vacuum to be drawn on the mains and service lines drawing
contamination into the pipes.

In any disaster, is safer to assume contamination whether warnings
have been issued or not. Boiling will kill most if not all pathogenic
[disease causing] viruses, bacteria, etc. but will not remove most
chemicals.

It is far safer to keep at least a three day supply of water, and many
keep at least 2 weeks worth.

Store water in clean,
deodorized, food-grade plastic containers with screw-on caps (soft
drink, milk bottles or drums, for example). Avoid using containers
that will decompose or break, such as paper milk cartons or glass
bottles. Replace stored tap water every six months.
o Do not use containers that retain strong odors from previously
stored foods, those that held toxic products or those without an
airtight seal.
o Store your water in a dark place away from paint and petroleum-based
products, acids or anything having objectionable odors (i.e.,
fertilizer or household cleaners). Laboratory tests confirm that
chlorine used to treat water and guard against bacterial growth lasts
longer in refrigerated water than water kept at room temperature.
o To use the water in your pipes, let air into the plumbing by turning
on the faucet at the highest point in your house and draining the
water from the faucet at the lowest point.
o To use the water in your water heater, be sure the electricity or
gas is off. Open the drain at the bottom of the tank. Start the water
flowing by turning off the cold water intake valve above the hot water
tank and turning on any hot water faucet. Do not turn on the gas or
electricity when the tank is empty.
o Disinfect rainwater or water from snow before drinking.
o Boiling is the best way to disinfect water. Bring the water to a
rolling boil for five minutes. Let cool before drinking. To improve
taste, pour water back and forth repeatedly between two containers to
aerate the water. Bleach directions below from Clorox.com.
o You can disinfect water using household bleach. Choose a brand that
does not contain soaps or other additives. The label should read 5.25%
percent of sodium hypochlorite. To treat one gallon of clear water,
use 16 drops of bleach or 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons. If the water is
cloudy, or if the bleach is over one year old, use twice as much
bleach. Stir the water vigorously and let it sit for 30 minutes. Pour
the water back and forth between two containers several times to
improve taste. Repeat if no bleach smell after 30 minutes.
o If you use an eyedropper or measuring spoon to add bleach, do not
use them for any other purpose.
o Adding powdered drinks like Kool-Aid and Tang will help disguise odd
tasting water from disinfecting by boiling or bleach. In an Emergency
use water in: Pipes, Water heater = turn off first!, toilet tank-not
bowl, ice cubes, rain water and snow.
1. Flashlights for everyone and enough batteries to last one week.
2. A battery-operated radio and enough batteries to ensure one week of
continuous play.
3. A regular telephone that is connected to telephone land lines by a
standard telephone wall jack. (Cordless telephones and telephones that
plug into an electrical outlet may not work if there is no
electricity.)
4. A three-day supply (minimum) of stored tap water and nonperishable
food.
5. A manual (nonelectric) can opener.
6. Paper plates, cups, napkins, plastic eating utensils, and paper
towels.
7. An alternative heating source, such as a generator and electrical
heaters or fireplace. Stock up on extra firewood.
8. An alternative means to cook food, such as a charcoal or propane
grill and enough charcoal and lighter fluid or propane to last a week.
9. A fire extinguisher.
10. Liquid chlorine bleach with 5.25 percent sodium hypochlorite and
no additives
11. An eyedropper or measuring spoons.
12. Extra garbage bags.
13. Sanitary wipes or no rinse antibacterial hand wash for cleaning
hands without water.
14. No rinse shampoo for washing hair without water.
15. A fully stocked first aid kit, including any specific prescription
requirements.

Depending on nature and duration of disaster people who are dependent
on prescription medication often immediately rush out and refill
scrips whether have used existing scrips or not. Most prescription
medications are fairly expensive and some go out of date. Therefore,
most pharmacists don't carry much extra stock, often relying on almost
daily deliveries from wholesalers.

Most stock systems are electronic these days, and if power is out
pharmacies can easily run out of items without even realizing it,
wholesalers have difficulty filling orders if their systems are down,
or ordering more from manufacturers.

If really need a medication, would advise keeping at least two week
supply at all times.

16. A shut off wrench (to turn off household gas and water).
17. Extra cash. 18. Extra Ammo - BE PREPARED, BECAUSE IF YOUR NOT ?

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:02:39 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:39:14 GMT, erniegalts
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:03:05 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote:

Not difficult to get an amateur license these days now that the code
requirement has been wiped. Anyone who knows a bit about radio should
be able to study the regs and pass an exam allowing VHF operation on 2
metres, and the "general class" [ or "full call" ] exam is not that
much harder.

General Class license still requires a Morse Code test. Morse has not
been "wiped." It has however, been lowered for the two higher class
licenses from 13 and 20 wpm to 5 wpm for both licenses. Morse is not
required for the Technician license which give full priviliges on
VHF/UHF.

So, once again ernie, you are wrong.

http://www.arrl.org/pio/hamlic.html

Sorry, Brock, it is you that are wrong, and for the second time in a
matter of weeks. First time was when you accused me of being unable
to calculate the resonant length of a 1/4 wave vertical.

A quick advanced search on the net would have shown you that have
mentioned this in several posts, see following excerpt from one of the
early ones.

=============================
From: "Wombat"
Subject: Handheld Ham Radio Antenna(e) Questions
Date: 1999/03/01
Message-ID:

[snip]

1== Not familiar with these particular transceivers, the formula for
any full-length quarter wave whip working against a ground plane is
[in metric measurements]
Length in meters = 75 divided by operating frequency

The 2 metre band extends from 144 to 148 MHz. So if were cutting an
antenna for center of this band at 146 MHz would be 75 / 146 =
0.513698630137. So a quarter-wave vertical would be roughly .513
metres long, or 513 mm. (millimeters) or 20.2244 inches.

75/ 440 = 170.455 mm or 6.71081inches.

2== I assume you will be getting an amateur license before operate
on these frequencies, as governments tend to take a dim view of
unlicensed operation, and amateurs will go to considerable lengths to
catch unlicensed operators.

3== The above formula gives the theoretical lengths for a resonant
1/4 wave working against a ground plane. Some hand transceivers use
the unit itself or the operators hand to act as a "ground plane" A
"rubber ducky" antenna is often just a resonant 1/4 wave wound into a
shorter coil, and does restrict range.
================================

Actually, have done a fair bit of experimentation with antennas.
Corner reflectors, trough reflectors, yagis, arrays, non-resonant long
wires, rhombics, etc.

You second mistake was the belief that code was still a requirement,
although the International Telecommunications Union end this almost a
month ago.

Were you involved in previous debates on need for current control on
LEDs, the differences between an a electrochemical cell and a battery
made up from same? Don't remember offhand, but you seem very anxious
to catch me in a mistake. Why is this, Brock?

erniegalts