-----------------------------
So ernie,where specifically was I wrong? Code has not been "wiped."
It's been reduced to 5 WPM for the two higher class licenses required
for operation on the HF band.

Oh for ****s sake, will you ****ing people just STFU?

Bob, I believe, if you read Ernie's original post, he said it was wiped,
and then talked about using a 2m HT. The license to operate on 2m,
Technician, had its morse code requirement 'wiped' a few years ago.

Jesus ****ing christ, the signal-to-noise ratio in here is getting
mighty ****ing low. You ****ers just aren't happy if you aren't gaining
imaginary debating points on Usenet.

In rec.radio.scanner KB9WFK wrote:
(snip)
: How do you define, "a couple of miles"? My Icom T2H (a 7 Watt hand
: held) can make it from my house to the repeater 18 miles away. If I
: can hit that repeater then I can talk to anyone between it and me on
: simplex, and that is with the rubber duck antenna. Using a home made
: twin-lead J-Pole antenna I talked on the repeater from downtown
: Chicago which is a 36 miles trip.
: On 2 Meters, get your antenna high and you can really reach out.
: Height is Might.
(snip)

Yes, but ... not everyone has a "high" antenna .. and many of those will
be closer to you than that "repeater 18 miles away" and yet, you *won't*
be able to talk with them. Because they won't hear you and/or you won't
hear them.

Richard in Boston, MA, USA

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 04:02:54 GMT, Hagbard Celine
wrote:



-----------------------------
So ernie,where specifically was I wrong? Code has not been "wiped."
It's been reduced to 5 WPM for the two higher class licenses required
for operation on the HF band.

Oh for ****s sake, will you ****ing people just STFU?

No.

Bob, I believe, if you read Ernie's original post, he said it was wiped,
and then talked about using a 2m HT. The license to operate on 2m,
Technician, had its morse code requirement 'wiped' a few years ago.

Closer to a decade I think.

Jesus ****ing christ, the signal-to-noise ratio in here is getting
mighty ****ing low. You ****ers just aren't happy if you aren't gaining
imaginary debating points on Usenet.

Too cheap to buy a newsreader capable of filtering/killfilling
messages? If so, STFU and quit whining.

Have a nice day ;-)

Really, as I regularly get anywhere from 4-15 miles range with my HT around
here on simplex. Even further with the mobile rig on simplex at 40-45
watts, as far as 20-30 miles on average. At home, (better antenna and the
height advantage) have gotten even further with 40-50 watts! Must be
something wrong with your equipment.



Yes. Except that 2 meter and 440 MHz radios, especially small ones,
have limited range of only a few miles. They depend on repeaters to
relay their messages long distances, and the repeaters run on electric
power.

Yaesu VX-2R
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/0176.html
snip

--
"I can't describe how I felt when I picked up that rifle, loaded
it into my little car and drove home. It seemed so incredibly
strange: Sarah Brady, of all people, packing heat."
- Sarah Brady, explaining how her son avoided the Brady criminal
background check by getting her to buy the sniper rifle for him.
Source: New York Daily News, Mar. 21, 2002, "Gun control advocate
may have violated gun laws"

Here 'ya go. This is why we can't afford to let the Broadband companies
squeeze us out.

http://www.ev1.net/english/news/news...t=technolo gy

MJC


"mad amoeba" wrote in message
. net...
I was affected by the recent blackout in North East. That got me thinking
of
how would
one communicate during such an event. Electricity including phones were
out.
Cellular phones didn't work either. So the only way of receiving
informaiton
was by radio.
My old Sony wm-gx670 did quite nicely. But what if I would need to
communicate with
my relatives or even cops to let them know of an emmergency. If
telephone/cellular/internet
are not available what are my other options? Let's say people I want to
communicate with
are more than several miles away in an urban area. That makes CB radio
useless--right? So
then as far as I understand using ham radio is my only option. With that
you
can either get in
touch with your relatives directly, provided they have ham radio as well,
or
you can call
some person in an area without blackout and tell them to call
police/ambulance etc if that's
what you need.

Not knowing much myself about scanners/shortwaves/hams myself I want to
ask
you guys
with more experience if the below piece of equipment is what I need.

As far as I understand this is an handheld ham radio which also functions
as
a scanner and
can also receive on a shortwave band. So it will allow me to communicate
with people
far away even in urban setting, it is portable and it will also allow me
to
monitor news as
well as police/firefighters etc. Am I right?

Yaesu VX-2R
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/0176.html

the price is kind of steep but for all-in-one product I would be willing
to
pay it.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:11:04 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:26:20 GMT, erniegalts
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:02:39 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:39:14 GMT, erniegalts
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:03:05 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote:

Not difficult to get an amateur license these days now that the code
requirement has been wiped. Anyone who knows a bit about radio should
be able to study the regs and pass an exam allowing VHF operation on 2
metres, and the "general class" [ or "full call" ] exam is not that
much harder.

General Class license still requires a Morse Code test. Morse has not
been "wiped." It has however, been lowered for the two higher class
licenses from 13 and 20 wpm to 5 wpm for both licenses. Morse is not
required for the Technician license which give full priviliges on
VHF/UHF.

So, once again ernie, you are wrong.

http://www.arrl.org/pio/hamlic.html

Which states:
The General License:

The General class license grants some operating privileges on all
Amateur Radio bands and all operating modes. This license opens the
door to world-wide communications. Earning the General class license
requires passing a 35 question examination. General class licensees
must also have passed the Technician written examination and the five
word-per-minute Morse code test.


Just had a look at it. You might check the date at the bottom.:-)

Page last modified: 09:55 AM, 27 Sep 2000 ET
Page author:
Copyright © 2000, American Radio Relay League, Inc. All Rights
Reserved.


The Amateur Extra License:

The Amateur Extra class license conveys all available U.S. Amateur
Radio operating privileges on all bands and all modes. Earning the
license is more difficult; it requires passing a thorough 50 question
examination. Extra class licensees must also have passed all previous
license class written examinations, including the five word-per-minute
Morse code test.

-----------------------------
So ernie,where specifically was I wrong? Code has not been "wiped."
It's been reduced to 5 WPM for the two higher class licenses required
for operation on the HF band.


Sorry, Brock, it is you that are wrong, and for the second time in a
matter of weeks. First time was when you accused me of being unable
to calculate the resonant length of a 1/4 wave vertical.

It was the part where you said that automobiles have quater wave
antennas that resonate at around 500 KHz. That my boy is a hell of an
antenna for a car.

Show us where I said that. I said that this would be the resonant
length for an antenna of that length.

Never mind, I'll look it up and reprint text in full, snipping some
excess material from full header. ###### My comments set off by hash
signs as usual ######

=====================================
From: erniegalts
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Radio technical question???
Message-ID:
Lines: 150
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:37:18 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:37:18 EST
----------------

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:14:19 -0700, Louis Boyd
wrote:

Steve Day wrote:
Ok guys and Gals, here is one for the more technically minded of you )

If I want to try and improve the reception on my car radio or home based SW
radio (to for example pick up weather broadcasts or news broadcasts in a
remote location), the normal route is to extend the length of the ariel ????
How ever when I have tried this with my Roberts 886 world band all I get is
more very loud interference.

So how do I extend the length of an ariel using a wire to improve reception
without picking up more interference?



Just extending the length of the antenna doesn't usually get it away
from the noise sources and make actually make the signal to noise ratio
worse.

1. Eliminate the noise sources if practical. Things like fluorescent
lights, dimmer circuts, some UPS's etc generate considerable noise in
the AM and SW bands. This may not be practical if the interference is
from other than your property, but I've had success in finding
capacitively sparking connectors on power poles and asking the power
company to fix them. I've never seen them find the problem themselves
as such sparking isn't considered a power fault. You can track it down
with a portable radio and see exactly where it's sparking at night. A
NV scope make the sparking easy to see. On a car radio check ignition
noise first. Noise can also come from corroded metal acting as a mixer
causing noise to be generated from nearby transmitters which are working
properly.

2. Move the antenna away from the noise sources. Whether that's
practical depends on the radio's input circuit and it's provision for an
external antenna, and of course where the noise source is located.

3. Get the antenna to a higher elevation. That's most effective at
higher frequencies, not so effective at AM and low band SW.

4. A larger and more directional antenna may help. A shielded loop
antenna can be oriented to null out a single interfering source on the
AM and low SW bands. At high SW frequecies a directional multielement
antenna (or other designs) may help but such antennas are large below
VHF frequecies.

All good advice. Can get inline boosters for car radios, but as Lou
points out won't help the signal to noise ratio.

On car radio, are you talking about AM, SW, or FM?

The best non-directional antenna is one that is resonant at the
desired frequency, and the metric formula for this is very simple.

The usual whip antenna on a car is a quarter wave vertical operating
against a ground plane. The formula for resonant frequency for a 1/4
wave antenna is 75 / frequency in MHz.

####### Now Brock, point out where this claims that the quarter wave
antenna on a car is anywhere near resonant frequency. If you are
going to criticise my posts at least try to read them carefully enough
to get the meaning and stop jumping to conclusions. Better yet, why
don't you simply killfile me??? ######

Using a resonant antenna is very important for transmission, but also
quite significant for reception.

So lets assume that you want to listen to an FM station at 100 MHz [or
megacycles] on a car radio. Resonant length in metres for 1/4 wave
vertical would be 75/100 = 0.75 metres = 75 centimeters which in
imperial measurement would be 29.53 inches.

##### Which is roughly correct #####

Easy to see that this no problem for a car antenna. However, suppose
we are talking about a SW radio for 27 MHz CB? 75/27= ~ 2.77 metres,
=~270 centimeters = 106.3 inches = ~ 8.9 feet.

If want anything near perfect resonance and omnidirectional coverage
for an 8.9 foot vertical need at least as much ground plane or radials
at the base of it to form a "counterpoise" [More or less of an
"electrical mirror image" of the antenna, or "the other half of it".]

###### This is also reasonably correct ######

However, highways aren't designed for vehicles almost 18 feet wide, so
will have to accept some compromise.

#####The reason isn't only the ground plane, of course. Most overhead
structures such as roof over pumps in service stations and many
highway overpasses, pedestrian bridges, etc. don't allow for height of
vehicle roof plus ~ 8.09 feet#####

Much worse at AM frequencies, of course. AM band runs from around
..53 to 1.6 Mhz, or 530 to 1600 Khz. So for an AM station at 1000 KHz
or 1 MHz, the resonant length would be 75/1 = 75 metres.

One foot = 0.3048 metres, so 75 * .3048 = 22.86 feet, the length of
your resonant vertical, so if you mounted it dead center in the metal
roof of your vehicle, the vehicle would have to be 45.72 feet wide.

[Yes, can get by using physically shorter resonant antennas by
winding this as a helical coil on a physically shorter form, but
efficiency falls off drastically for shorter lengths.

If assume that the feedline is correctly matched to an antenna of the
proper length, and had enough surrounding metal around for it as a
ground plane efficiency might approach 100%.

For 27 MHz, can wind that 8.9 feet if wire on a 6 foot long form, but
your ground plane still wont be adequate, so efficiency will probably
be 70 or 80% at best. Can even wind it on a 2 foot form, but then
efficiency will drop to around 10%.]

Yes, going into more detail here than is necessary, but there may
be some people still fooling around with 27 MHz CB in the group.

#####Which is why went into such detail. But again note that there
is no claim in the post that the 1/4 wave vertical receiving antenna
on a vehicle is anywhere near resonant at lower frequencies.#####


OK, for reception you don't need a fully efficient resonant antenna on
your vehicle, and no need to try to match to it. A long helical wound
fiberglass antenna may be the best you can do.

Now if talking a fixed station antenna, you have a lot more
flexibility. You can go for long wire antennas, quads, or even
rhombics, terminated or unterminated. [For details on such antennas,
see current ARRL antenna manual]

Nice to know all this stuff, but if the average SWL listener my
personal advice for broadcast band or shortwave is an active antenna
such as a Datong. Basically, a wideband 1/2 wave dipole with
switchable gain.

##### The tapered stainless whips on the datong dipole are nowhere
near resonant lengths for most frequencies either. From memory, about
5 1/2 feet long. ######

Used vertically, it is omnidirectional. Used horizontally, highly
directional, so useful for nulling out noise sources.

##### Can be mounted on larger vehicles for mobile reception #####

Searched the web for
Datong active antenna
Results 1 - 10 of about 189. Search took 0.17 seconds.

Hope this will help.

However, I don't claim to be an expert on antennas. Others on the
group would know more than I do.

Generalists are, by definition, generalists.

People like Gunner have claimed to be "generalists" but in some areas
obviously have some areas of specialization. For example, he would
know far more about metalwork than I would.

And if you wanted to know more about propaganda, lies, killing, and
general asshole behavior, would probably be difficult to improve on
this particular resident of California. :-)

Although I suspect that he is now known nationwide or even worldwide.

erniegalts


I would ask if you are this stupid, but I know that you aren't.
You're just a troll ernie and not a very good one.

When want you opinion, Brock, will ask it.

.....And you are still in error on both the resonant antenna and the
requirement for morse. :-)

erniegalts

"erniegalts" wrote in message
...
Much worse at AM frequencies, of course. AM band runs from around
.53 to 1.6 Mhz, or 530 to 1600 Khz. So for an AM station at 1000 KHz
or 1 MHz, the resonant length would be 75/1 = 75 metres.

One foot = 0.3048 metres, so 75 * .3048 = 22.86 feet, the length of
your resonant vertical, so if you mounted it dead center in the metal
roof of your vehicle, the vehicle would have to be 45.72 feet wide.

Oops...

You got your math backward here.. the correct computation would be 75
(length in meters) x 3.28 (feet per meter)= 246.06 feet for a 1/4 wave
radiator at 1 MHz (not adjusting for velocity factor).

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:18:26 GMT, Never anonymous Bud
wrote:

Separating himself from Baghdad Bob, Trs1 whined:

It is not illegal to communicate for emergency reasons.

That's NOT the FCC says.

Actually, it is what they say. I believe it is even a question on the
test for the Tech. Class license but I really don't feel like reading
the entire question pool right now.

Actually..here it is from an ARRL publication NOW YOU'RE TALKING used
to study for the exam. After a paragraph recognizing that some radios
can transmit out of band and warning of false or deceptive signals it
says:

"If you should require immediate emergency help, and you're using a
voice mode, call MAYDAY. Use whatever frequency offers the best
chance of getting a useful answer"

"In a life or property-threatening emergency, you may send a distress
call on any frequency, even outside the amateur bands, if you think
doing so will bring help faster."

"If you receive a distress signal, you are also allowed to transmit on
any frequency to provide assistance."

This is all under subelement T1E


KB9WFK




"You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable
discussion."
'Alan Connor'

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:57:25 GMT, KB9WFK wrote:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:18:26 GMT, Never anonymous Bud
wrote:

Separating himself from Baghdad Bob, Trs1 whined:

It is not illegal to communicate for emergency reasons.

That's NOT the FCC says.

Actually, it is what they say. I believe it is even a question on the
test for the Tech. Class license but I really don't feel like reading
the entire question pool right now.

Actually..here it is from an ARRL publication NOW YOU'RE TALKING used
to study for the exam. After a paragraph recognizing that some radios
can transmit out of band and warning of false or deceptive signals it
says:

"If you should require immediate emergency help, and you're using a
voice mode, call MAYDAY. Use whatever frequency offers the best
chance of getting a useful answer"

"In a life or property-threatening emergency, you may send a distress
call on any frequency, even outside the amateur bands, if you think
doing so will bring help faster."

"If you receive a distress signal, you are also allowed to transmit on
any frequency to provide assistance."

This is all under subelement T1E


KB9WFK

There are actually three classes of distress messages and AFIK all
have priority over any normal traffic. However, I have my doubts that
all amateurs would necessarily recognize them, let alone users of CB
or most other two way services.


================================================

To quote from one of my earlier posts:
From:
Subject: OT: CB Radio's
Date: 2000/06/03
Message-ID: #1/1
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:50:15 EST
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
------------------------------------------------
MAYDAY (Distress) = Indicates that a ship, aircraft or other vehicle
is threatened by grave and imminent danger and requests immediate
assistance.

PAN (Urgency) Indicates that the calling station has a very urgent
message to transmit concerning the safety of a ship, aircraft, or
other vehicle, or the safety of a person.

SECURTIE (Safety) Indicates that the station is about to transmit a
message concerning the safety of navigation or giving important
meteorological warnings.
----------------------------------------------




"You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable
discussion."
'Alan Connor'

"_Magna est veritas et praevalebit"_
(Truth is mighty and will prevail).
{erniegalts}
{Australia}
{misc.survivalism}

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:16:59 GMT, Never anonymous Bud
wrote:

Separating himself from Baghdad Bob, erniegalts
whined:

There are actually three classes of distress messages and AFIK all
have priority over any normal traffic. However, I have my doubts that
all amateurs would necessarily recognize them, let alone users of CB
or most other two way services.

It STILL boils down to the FCC NOT accepting an emergency as a reason
for transmitting on a frequency you are NOT licensed for.

Here in San Diego, a few years ago, a licensed Ham operator
with a modded (out-of-band xmit) radio was off-roading with
friends. One of them had a serious crash. Ham guy claimed
he couldn't hit a Ham repeater, so called in on a Sheriff's
Dept. freq (453.400).

The injured person was rescued, but the FCC filed charges
against the Ham guy for unlicensed operation.

The case was settled when Ham guy 'donated' his radio to the County.

FCC ruling was he was not licensed for the frequency he used,
and that they make NO exemption for an emergency.

If memory serves me right, the charges were eventually reduced or
dropped, but he never did get his equipment back. Whatever the
outcome, the FCC made it very clear that transmitting out of band was
a bad thing to do and they would make your life miserable for awhile.