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-   -   why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone (https://www.radiobanter.com/shortwave/116546-re-why-not-why-not-why-not-leave-am-radio-alone.html)

[email protected] March 18th 07 04:57 PM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
I want to find out who the new Sweet Potato Queen is.
www.sweetpotatoqueens.com (Catchin' up) probally some woman who came in
that big a.. bus.
cuhulin


ve3... March 18th 07 05:20 PM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
-The CBC has decided to add FM transmitters to serve six prairie
cities to improve signals and audience. However, the big 50k AM
transmitters will continue simulcasting to provide service to the many
small-town and rural communities . Only AM has the reach to cover the
large areas involved. If radio in Canada was based on the Eduardo
maximum-profit model, the big AM's would shut down becuse the fringe
listeners would not meet minimum demographics and therefore would be
commercially worthless.
But the CBC's mandate is to provide service to all Canadians, not
just the most profitable. As long as US broadcasting is maximum-
profit, minimum cost (content) these squabbles will go on. The fight
for share of a shrinking pie is not pretty. The question is: how well
have the radio stations used public airwaves to provide service to
listeners? How many plays, concerts, classical music, debates,
lectures, 50's and 60's tunes, have you heard on AM? I have heard all
these on the CBC in the last week. By ruthlessly programming to the
choice demographic and eliminating any other program material US
broacasting has achieved Newton Minow's "vast wasteland" and you have
to search for an interesting program.
By the way, when the CBC switched to FM in Toronto and Ottawa, it
increased its audience, which had been dropping.



[email protected] March 18th 07 05:32 PM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
There are a lot of big wide open areas in parts of Canada,some areas
where few people live.hd ibquity just won't cut it for those kinds of
areas/places.AM Radio does.
cuhulin


Telamon March 18th 07 10:27 PM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

I know what the problem is... you are stubborn and do not understand
that few listeners are even interested in non-local stations, and
when combined with signals that are not reliable day and nigh and
which can be subject to interference, they don't listen to them.


Along with not being interested in where your assumptions are incorrect
you don't seem to be as interested in reality as you are your own
special view of it.


I am making no assumptions, so such assumptions can not be incorrect.

The facts are very simple.


You are making assumptions of signal strength levels being good enough
so noise is not an issue.

1. The FCC provides data by which the field strength of any station can be
caluculated in any location. This data and commercial software are so
accurate, the FCC is now considering the actual readings of field strength
on radials of each directional station or for non-DA proofs.
2. Arbitron provides down to the ZIP Code level information on every station
listened to for at least 5 minutes in a week in each ZIP code.
3. Looking at signal strength vs. listening shows that metro area stations
without a consistent, 10 mv/m or better day and night signal do not get any
significant listening. Stations in the high end of the 5 mv/m to 10 mv/m
will get occasional mentions, but not enough to "make the book" and be
statistically significant.

There are far more than 3 stations that are local to me.


"Local" is not a technical term in this context. This discussion is about
how "large" a signal has to be to register any listening, and in AM, that
level in metro areas is 10 mv/m or above


Then take a look at the numbers I provided and you can see that they all
represent strong signals. Must be a problem with your contour maps.

One station that is "local" to me in LA is KBLA... 50 kw at 1580. But I live
to the east of its site, and can barely hear it daytime and not at all at
night... yet the towers are less than 10 miles from me.


What has that have to do with the signal strength of stations in my area?

There are over a dozen. You know this but will not acknowledge it.
These local stations put in strong signals so noise is not an
issue. There is no problem picking them up. You don't have to "try"
for them.


If they don't have 10 mv/m in your ZIP, nobody listens, per Arbitron.


Well then Arbitron is wrong then or you are misinterpreting them.

In most markets, you can pretty accurately trace the 10 mv/m contour of a
station via plotting diaries


Well then it does not correlate to reception.

Stations all over the US realize this, and generally do their audience
promotion inside the contour under the theory that elsewhere there is no
return on the investment.

Your statement that nobody has more than 3 strong signal stations is a
complete fabrication.


I did not say that. I said there are only 3 signals over 10 mv/m at your
location.

I did say that few markets have more than one or two viable AM stations that
cover day and night the metro. Some have none, like ashington, DC and
Ventura, others like LA and SF have a few more.

The fact that you will not acknowledge it when
called on your bad assumptions shows that you will continue to post
articles with fabricated information to the news group.



Sorted by distance from my location.

Call Freq Dist. in miles City Format dBm

KVEN 1450 AM 3.4 Ventura, CA Oldies -29
KKZZ 1590 AM 6.2 Ventura, CA Talk -32
KOXR 910 AM 9.3 Oxnard, CA Spanish -40
KUNX 1400 AM 11.6 Santa Paula, CA Spanish -65
KVTA 1520 AM 12.3 Port Hueneme, CA Talk -39
KZSB 1290 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA News -55
KIST 1340 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA Talk -55
KBKO 1490 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA Simulcast of KTMS 990 -55
KZER 1250 AM 31.5 Santa Barbara, CA Spanish -56
KIRN 670 AM 32.8 Simi Valley, CA Ethnic -66
KSPN 710 AM 50.9 Los Angeles, CA Sports -60
KNX 1070 AM 61.5 Los Angeles, CA News -54
KRLA 870 AM 61.7 Glendale, CA News/Talk -65
KFI 640 AM 78.4 Los Angeles, CA Talk -68
KOGO 600 AM 168 San Diego, CA Talk -69

Sorted by daytime signal strength.

Call Freq Dist. in miles City Format dBm

KVEN 1450 AM 3.4 Ventura, CA Oldies -29
KKZZ 1590 AM 6.2 Ventura, CA Talk -32
KVTA 1520 AM 12.3 Port Hueneme, CA Talk -39
KOXR 910 AM 9.3 Oxnard, CA Spanish -40
KNX 1070 AM 61.5 Los Angeles, CA News -54
KZSB 1290 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA News -55
KIST 1340 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA Talk -55
KBKO 1490 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA Simulcast of KTMS 990 -55
KZER 1250 AM 31.5 Santa Barbara, CA Spanish -56
KSPN 710 AM 50.9 Los Angeles, CA Sports -60
KUNX 1400 AM 11.6 Santa Paula, CA Spanish -65
KRLA 870 AM 61.7 Glendale, CA News/Talk -65
KIRN 670 AM 32.8 Simi Valley, CA Ethnic -66
KFI 640 AM 78.4 Los Angeles, CA Talk -68
KOGO 600 AM 168 San Diego, CA Talk -69


You can't really think anyone would use S-meter readings in place of
calculated contours or field strength readings with a calibrated, type
approved FIM, can you?


Why not? The meter I used on my receiver is calibrated. What do you
think a field strength meter is anyway?

The point of the numbers above is the signal levels are strong on all
these stations so noise is not an issue.

Of all these stations, only 3 get significant ratings in your ZIP code..


Must be a different reason other than signal strength, which is very
good according to empirical evidence, which means that your data is
faulty or assumptions made from that data are incorrect.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon March 18th 07 10:32 PM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,

It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones,
there
is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour.


Pardon me for butting into this love-fest, but let's try to
establish an understanding of what really are the objections here. And
why this exchange can get as heated as it does.

Start with the presentation of Dismissal. David, 'essentially none'
is not the same as 'none.' Just as statistical zero is not zero.

And what's been bandied about here, is the relative merits of simply
dismissing those numbers which don't fit a profile of behaviour mated to
a sales curve.

No one on either side of this discussion has suggested that 1) there
is zero listening outside the contours, nor that 2) what listening does
exist outside the contours is in mainstream numbers.


Snip

David is making that assumption based on signal strength.


I am not making assumptions, as I said before. I am stating fact: stations
on AM in metro areas do not get listening of a statistically significant
nature outside the 10 mv/m contour. Listeners will not put up with weaker
signals, and most listeners don't care to listen to stations outside their
community.

People will
not tune into weak signals and there are no more than 3 in a large
market so AM is pretty much Dead.


I DID NOT SAY THAT. I said that, in your ZIP Code, there are only 3 stations
capable (depending on programming) of generating significaant ratings (which
means listening) because they have a decent enough signal to be listened to.

AM is dying, and that is because nearly nobody under 45 listens because the
sound sucks and there are so few listenable stations. In a few years, when
all AM listening is over 55 in age, there will be no revenue in the rated
metros, and the viable format will move to FM and that will be it except for
stations that are kept on the air with infomercials, brokered programming
and religious teaching formats.

I try to tell him that I live in the
northern part of one of the largest markets with many more choices and
he tells me according to some misconstrued data it is no so.


Ventura is not even a top 100 market. It is hardly "largest" in any sense.


Its in the LA market area. People commute from Ventura to work every
work day. I buy stuff in the LA and many people in Ventura do the same.

You may go out of your way to find weaker AMs. 99.9999% of the population
does not.


I didn't go out of my way, just tune the radio to the frequency,
stations I listed are strong with no noise on a portable radio inside
the house.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon March 18th 07 10:37 PM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,

It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban
zones, there is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m
contour.


Pardon me for butting into this love-fest, but let's try to
establish an understanding of what really are the objections here.
And why this exchange can get as heated as it does.

Start with the presentation of Dismissal. David, 'essentially
none' is not the same as 'none.' Just as statistical zero is not
zero.

And what's been bandied about here, is the relative merits of
simply dismissing those numbers which don't fit a profile of
behaviour mated to a sales curve.

No one on either side of this discussion has suggested that 1)
there is zero listening outside the contours, nor that 2) what
listening does exist outside the contours is in mainstream
numbers.


Snip

David is making that assumption based on signal strength.


I am not making assumptions, as I said before. I am stating fact:
stations on AM in metro areas do not get listening of a statistically
significant nature outside the 10 mv/m contour. Listeners will not
put up with weaker signals, and most listeners don't care to listen
to stations outside their community.

People will not tune into weak signals and there are no more than 3
in a large market so AM is pretty much Dead.


I DID NOT SAY THAT. I said that, in your ZIP Code, there are only 3
stations capable (depending on programming) of generating
significaant ratings (which means listening) because they have a
decent enough signal to be listened to.


You are one funny guy. I don't see how your re-statement is different
from my summary of your previous post.

AM is dying, and that is because nearly nobody under 45 listens
because the sound sucks and there are so few listenable stations.


Which is BS.

In a few years, when all AM listening is over 55 in age, there will
be no revenue in the rated metros, and the viable format will move to
FM and that will be it except for stations that are kept on the air
with infomercials, brokered programming and religious teaching
formats.


I don't have a crystal ball like you have.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon March 18th 07 10:39 PM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"AM-HDisDead" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 16, 11:41?am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"dxAce" wrote in message

...



The real problem is that you, Edweenie, don't realize that you
are posting in what is ostensibly a *hobby* news group, where
folks actually *do* listen to things that fall outside of the
parameters of your little fantasy world.

The point is that the radio industry, both in the US and
worldwide, is changing. In the case of AM, it is trying to save
itself... a task that may not even be possible. DXers generally,
in the past, have followed with interest, the industry that
produces the signals that are listened too. HD is one of the
changes that the industry has determined will help in the future,
and it is definitely here.

Next week, the FCC has the IBOC/HD issue on its agenda. They are
expected to remove the "experimental" STA for HD and authorize the
system, and most trade magazines and such believe night HD will
also be authorized on the theory of greatest good for the greatest
number of people.

So it is obviously a hobby concern. And your R8B does not have HD!


What a joke - no one is listening in HD. This will just accelerate
the death of AM.


Even the most skeptical projects over 10 million HD radios by 2010...
2 1/2 years from now. with decreasing prices, others see 15 to 2o
million by that time.

Satellite has 14 million, and is almost in no-growth... so this is a
nice opportunity for free terrestrial radio.


I gotta get me one of those crystal balls like the one you use.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

David Eduardo March 19th 07 01:50 AM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

"ve3..." wrote in message
ups.com...
-The CBC has decided to add FM transmitters to serve six prairie
cities to improve signals and audience. However, the big 50k AM
transmitters will continue simulcasting to provide service to the many
small-town and rural communities . Only AM has the reach to cover the
large areas involved. If radio in Canada was based on the Eduardo
maximum-profit model, the big AM's would shut down becuse the fringe
listeners would not meet minimum demographics and therefore would be
commercially worthless.


The CBC has closed over half of its AMs, ranging form Nova Scotia to B.C.
Among the major ones are the 50 kw stations in Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal,
where the CBC is only on FM today.

In general, in Canada there are about half the AMs there wedre in 1980.
Canada has a stated policy of only keeping AMs in the larger metros to serve
a function of providing niche or minority services not sustainable or
available on FM.



[email protected] March 19th 07 02:15 AM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
www.devilfinder.com Crystal Balls

What are those thingys called? Sort of like a fancy outdoors stand with
big silver and or gold balls sitting on top of them.I used to see them
around here years ago.Gazing balls,or something like that.They are
intended for yard decorations.
cuhulin


[email protected] March 19th 07 02:23 AM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
Los Angeles (the City of Angels) is a great big City.Look around in your
phone book,you will probally find a store that sells Crystal Balls.
cuhulin



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