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-   -   why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone (https://www.radiobanter.com/shortwave/116546-re-why-not-why-not-why-not-leave-am-radio-alone.html)

David Eduardo March 14th 07 03:12 PM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 14, 2:43?am, "David Eduardo" wrote:

I'm waiting for this lie to be retracted.


WHO-AM News Talk Information 9.7 7.2 9.9 10.6
WLW-AM News Talk Information 8.9 9.9 11.2 9.8
WSB-AM News Talk Information 9.3 8.7 9.2 8.2
WGN-AM News Talk Information 5.3 5.5 5.8 5.4
WBBM-AM All News 4.2 4.1 4.4 4.6
WLS-AM News Talk Information 4.1 3.7 3.7 3.8
WTAM-AM News Talk Information 7.3 8.0 6.5 7.3
WJR-AM News Talk Information 4.8 4.9 5.3 5.3
KMOX-AM News Talk Information 8.4 7.7 8.2 8.4
KSL-AM News Talk Information 5.9 6.7 8.6 7.7

Here are just a few, in the major-markets - many of these are ranked
#1, and all are in the top-five. Now, go eat your **** sandwich, IBOC
shill !

Being #1 in 12+ (everyone from pre-teen to death) is meaningless. That's why
these numbers are given away for free.

Advertisers don't even look at 12+ numbers.

What is important for radio sales is the number of listeners in the ages
advertisers care about, generally (about 85% of buys) in 25-54 and somewhat
in 18-34 (plus all the subsets).

You will find that all the stations you listed do nowhere nearly as well in
25-54, and do horribly in 18-34 and 18-44. WGN, for example, is not even in
the top 15 stations in Chicago in 25-54 and the others fare similarly in the
"sales demos."

As said before, this is why stations like WTOP moved from AM to FM totally,
and ones like KSL are simulcasting with FM to pick up younger listeners.



David Eduardo March 14th 07 03:13 PM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

"David" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:08:04 GMT, "David Eduardo"
wrote:



Nice try, you liar. I don't work for, nor have ever worked for, that
company.

Before you claim people eat excrement, you might try checking the facts a
little better.

You work for Walter? For the Liebermans?


It's "Liberman" by the way.



[email protected] March 14th 07 04:03 PM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
On Mar 14, 1:12�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...
On Mar 14, 2:43?am, "David Eduardo" wrote:

I'm waiting for this lie to be retracted.


WHO-AM *News Talk Information 9.7 7.2 9.9 10.6
WLW-AM *News Talk Information 8.9 9.9 11.2 9.8
WSB-AM *News Talk Information 9.3 8.7 9.2 8.2
WGN-AM *News Talk Information 5.3 5.5 5.8 5.4
WBBM-AM *All News 4.2 4.1 4.4 4.6
WLS-AM *News Talk Information 4.1 3.7 3.7 3.8
WTAM-AM *News Talk Information 7.3 8.0 6.5 7.3
WJR-AM *News Talk Information 4.8 4.9 5.3 5.3
KMOX-AM *News Talk Information 8.4 7.7 8.2 8.4
KSL-AM *News Talk Information 5.9 6.7 8.6 7.7

Here are just a few, in the major-markets - many of these are ranked
#1, and all are in the top-five. Now, go eat your **** sandwich, IBOC
shill !

Being #1 in 12+ (everyone from pre-teen to death) is meaningless. That's why
these numbers are given away for free.

Advertisers don't even look at 12+ numbers.

What is important for radio sales is the number of listeners in the ages
advertisers care about, generally (about 85% of buys) in 25-54 and somewhat
in 18-34 (plus all the subsets).

You will find that all the stations you listed do nowhere nearly as well in
25-54, and do horribly in 18-34 and 18-44. WGN, for example, is not even in
the top 15 stations in Chicago in 25-54 and the others fare similarly in the
"sales demos."

As said before, this is why stations like WTOP moved from AM to FM totally,
and ones like KSL are simulcasting with FM to pick up younger listeners.


As I said before - AM radio is not dying, and I'll let you know, when
all AMs go dark.


[email protected] March 14th 07 04:04 PM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
On Mar 14, 1:12�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...
On Mar 14, 2:43?am, "David Eduardo" wrote:

I'm waiting for this lie to be retracted.


WHO-AM *News Talk Information 9.7 7.2 9.9 10.6
WLW-AM *News Talk Information 8.9 9.9 11.2 9.8
WSB-AM *News Talk Information 9.3 8.7 9.2 8.2
WGN-AM *News Talk Information 5.3 5.5 5.8 5.4
WBBM-AM *All News 4.2 4.1 4.4 4.6
WLS-AM *News Talk Information 4.1 3.7 3.7 3.8
WTAM-AM *News Talk Information 7.3 8.0 6.5 7.3
WJR-AM *News Talk Information 4.8 4.9 5.3 5.3
KMOX-AM *News Talk Information 8.4 7.7 8.2 8.4
KSL-AM *News Talk Information 5.9 6.7 8.6 7.7

Here are just a few, in the major-markets - many of these are ranked
#1, and all are in the top-five. Now, go eat your **** sandwich, IBOC
shill !

Being #1 in 12+ (everyone from pre-teen to death) is meaningless. That's why
these numbers are given away for free.

Advertisers don't even look at 12+ numbers.

What is important for radio sales is the number of listeners in the ages
advertisers care about, generally (about 85% of buys) in 25-54 and somewhat
in 18-34 (plus all the subsets).

You will find that all the stations you listed do nowhere nearly as well in
25-54, and do horribly in 18-34 and 18-44. WGN, for example, is not even in
the top 15 stations in Chicago in 25-54 and the others fare similarly in the
"sales demos."

As said before, this is why stations like WTOP moved from AM to FM totally,
and ones like KSL are simulcasting with FM to pick up younger listeners.


BTW - there is no consumer interest for HD Radio.


Telamon March 15th 07 01:40 AM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Yeah, now he is telling me what I can hear based on some imaginary
contour maps.

... based on FCC data which allowed the licensing and signal
protection of each station.


Your information or how you are interpreting it is faulty.


The information is composed of two parts.

1. Arbitron diary returns for in-home listening by ZIP code.
2. Signal strength by ZIP Code from professional engineering software, based
on FCC licence values, ground condutivity, tc.


Must be a piece of crap software you use.

I have many stations, on the order of sixteen, that have very
strong signals.


But only 3 put a 10 mv/m signal over your ZIP. Analysis of AM staitons by
listening location shows that below that level in populated metro areas,
there is, for all practical purposes, no listening.

Noise is not an issue at all. What does it take to get that through
your skull? Take a drive up to Ventura and see for yourself.


Why should I.


Because your data is wrong and you base your conclusions of false facts.

I am capable of looking at the field strengths of each station
in your ZIP and knowing that no AM station with less than a 10 mv/m gets
significant in-home listening in that ZIP, I conclude that the general rule
about listening to weaker signals holds true, yet again.


Bad data, incorrectly interpreting that data leads to wrong conclusions.

The stations broadcast from Santa Barbara, Santa Paula, Ventura, Oxnard,
Port Hueneme, Simi Valley, LA, and at the very least KOGO in San Diego.


Some in your ZIP have about 2 mv/m. As stated before, you may hear them if
you try, but "normal" radio listeners do not listen to them as they are not
stong enough to be usefully listenable.


No trying need since they are strong signals. No problem getting them on
the home radio, portable, or car radio.

There is like 10 stations 30 miles or less away from me for Gods sake.
Get a new line of crap to peddle. This one really stinks.


But, in your ZIP, there are only 3 above 10 mv/m. And those are, buy no
strange coincidence, the only ones that get any significant diary mentions
in your ZIP.


Something is wrong with your data or calculations.

You got a real problem. Your view of reality is askew. I don't know
where you are going wrong but you should find out.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

David Eduardo March 15th 07 03:18 AM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

Your information or how you are interpreting it is faulty.


The information is composed of two parts.

1. Arbitron diary returns for in-home listening by ZIP code.
2. Signal strength by ZIP Code from professional engineering software,
based
on FCC licence values, ground condutivity, tc.


Must be a piece of crap software you use.


It's the most used software for both vieweing existing operations and for
creating applications for new stations. It gives very precise contours per
the FCC rules, although I used the option to do signal averaging for a ZIP
Code since the data I am referencing to, Arbitron listening, can be broken
into ZIP Codes also.


Noise is not an issue at all. What does it take to get that through
your skull? Take a drive up to Ventura and see for yourself.


Why should I.


Because your data is wrong and you base your conclusions of false facts.


The data comes from the FCC... including the licensed operation (antenna
efficiency, directional pattern, transmitter location) and the "official"
FCC ground condutivity data to determine attenuation over a determined path

I am capable of looking at the field strengths of each station
in your ZIP and knowing that no AM station with less than a 10 mv/m gets
significant in-home listening in that ZIP, I conclude that the general
rule
about listening to weaker signals holds true, yet again.


Bad data, incorrectly interpreting that data leads to wrong conclusions.


The fact is, whether it is in Ventura or Lares, Puerto Rico, listening to
AMs below certain strong signal strengths is nearly non-existent and
statistically close to zero.

The stations broadcast from Santa Barbara, Santa Paula, Ventura,
Oxnard,
Port Hueneme, Simi Valley, LA, and at the very least KOGO in San Diego.


Some in your ZIP have about 2 mv/m. As stated before, you may hear them
if
you try, but "normal" radio listeners do not listen to them as they are
not
stong enough to be usefully listenable.


No trying need since they are strong signals. No problem getting them on
the home radio, portable, or car radio.


Yet listeners do not listen to them when the signal is below 10 mv/m in your
ZIP code.

There is like 10 stations 30 miles or less away from me for Gods sake.
Get a new line of crap to peddle. This one really stinks.


But, in your ZIP, there are only 3 above 10 mv/m. And those are, buy no
strange coincidence, the only ones that get any significant diary
mentions
in your ZIP.


Something is wrong with your data or calculations.


My listening data comes from the 4-book average for listening in your ZIP
code, correlated with actual signal strength there.

You got a real problem. Your view of reality is askew. I don't know
where you are going wrong but you should find out.


The simple fact is that in densely populated areas in the US, there is
seldom any AM listening outside the 10 mv/m contour.



David Eduardo March 15th 07 03:46 AM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...
"Telamon" wrote in message
...

You got a real problem. Your view of reality is askew. I don't know
where you are going wrong but you should find out.

--


He really just doesn't care, and chooses instead to live in his little
world of unreality. Maybe this is why radio is dying? The people in the
industry don't want to listen to what real people have to say.


That's pretty funny. I am in the "intermission" of a research project to
find out what a sample of over 100 listeners to one of our LA stations
thinks, likes, dislikes and wants.

And, while the average listening per person in the US is around 19 hours a
week, our listeners use about 24 hours of radio a week. And the time spent
with our stations is as much as 50% higher than the time spent listening to
general market stations.

Anyone who has a brain knows that ratings are not real.


And this would explain why the ad industry uses them to place about $21
billion dollars in radio advertising a year.

Given the amount of money that can be spent on sales research (Arbitron,
Tapscan, Scarborough, etc) the samples are sufficient to quite accurately
detedrmine the number of listeners per station, per time period, etc.

The test of any research is whether it can be replicated (the same results
with a different sample of the same characteristics) and MRC supervised
tests have shown Arbitron data has a high degree of replicability.

People are creatures of habit.. they tend to leave the TV on the same
channel most of the time, ditto the radio.. for most, radio is just
background noise, something to keep the silence from making them
crazy(ier).


Of couse, this is not true. The average person listens to about 5 to 6
different stations a week, and knows which ones satisfy different needs or
moods.

Not all of us out here listen to your top 2 stations in a market. Have
Arbitron send me or any of my friends (even the ones that are in major
metros) a diary.. and you'll see that there is a significant portion of
the public with very much different listening habits than your hand-picked
and sorted ratings group.


Actually, diaries are placed using a technique based on random digit
dialers, with strict geographic controls within each market's metro.
Participants are recruited based on quotas for age, sex, ethnicity, etc.
based on Claritas quantifications of each market using root Census data and
annual updates. In today's world, this is as close as you can get to a true
random probability sample where there is no recruitment bias.

There is nothing "hand picked" about the sample. Stations can not ask to
have diaries sent to anyone. It's all random.

And the diary method is going away, as the People Meter rolls out over the
next few years. It's already in Philly and Houston, and does full electronic
measurement of a perfectly balanced sample.



David March 15th 07 04:22 AM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 20:46:13 -0700, "David Eduardo"
wrote:



And, while the average listening per person in the US is around 19 hours a
week, our listeners use about 24 hours of radio a week. And the time spent
with our stations is as much as 50% higher than the time spent listening to
general market stations.

Anyone who has a brain knows that ratings are not real.


And this would explain why the ad industry uses them to place about $21
billion dollars in radio advertising a year.

Given the amount of money that can be spent on sales research (Arbitron,
Tapscan, Scarborough, etc) the samples are sufficient to quite accurately
detedrmine the number of listeners per station, per time period, etc.

The test of any research is whether it can be replicated (the same results
with a different sample of the same characteristics) and MRC supervised
tests have shown Arbitron data has a high degree of replicability.

People are creatures of habit.. they tend to leave the TV on the same
channel most of the time, ditto the radio.. for most, radio is just
background noise, something to keep the silence from making them
crazy(ier).


Of couse, this is not true. The average person listens to about 5 to 6
different stations a week, and knows which ones satisfy different needs or
moods.

Not all of us out here listen to your top 2 stations in a market. Have
Arbitron send me or any of my friends (even the ones that are in major
metros) a diary.. and you'll see that there is a significant portion of
the public with very much different listening habits than your hand-picked
and sorted ratings group.


Actually, diaries are placed using a technique based on random digit
dialers, with strict geographic controls within each market's metro.
Participants are recruited based on quotas for age, sex, ethnicity, etc.
based on Claritas quantifications of each market using root Census data and
annual updates. In today's world, this is as close as you can get to a true
random probability sample where there is no recruitment bias.

There is nothing "hand picked" about the sample. Stations can not ask to
have diaries sent to anyone. It's all random.

And the diary method is going away, as the People Meter rolls out over the
next few years. It's already in Philly and Houston, and does full electronic
measurement of a perfectly balanced sample.



David Eduardo March 15th 07 04:55 AM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

"David" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 20:46:13 -0700, "David Eduardo"
wrote:




This is the best response you have ever posted.



And, while the average listening per person in the US is around 19 hours a
week, our listeners use about 24 hours of radio a week. And the time spent
with our stations is as much as 50% higher than the time spent listening
to
general market stations.

Anyone who has a brain knows that ratings are not real.


And this would explain why the ad industry uses them to place about $21
billion dollars in radio advertising a year.

Given the amount of money that can be spent on sales research (Arbitron,
Tapscan, Scarborough, etc) the samples are sufficient to quite accurately
detedrmine the number of listeners per station, per time period, etc.

The test of any research is whether it can be replicated (the same results
with a different sample of the same characteristics) and MRC supervised
tests have shown Arbitron data has a high degree of replicability.

People are creatures of habit.. they tend to leave the TV on the same
channel most of the time, ditto the radio.. for most, radio is just
background noise, something to keep the silence from making them
crazy(ier).


Of couse, this is not true. The average person listens to about 5 to 6
different stations a week, and knows which ones satisfy different needs or
moods.

Not all of us out here listen to your top 2 stations in a market. Have
Arbitron send me or any of my friends (even the ones that are in major
metros) a diary.. and you'll see that there is a significant portion of
the public with very much different listening habits than your
hand-picked
and sorted ratings group.


Actually, diaries are placed using a technique based on random digit
dialers, with strict geographic controls within each market's metro.
Participants are recruited based on quotas for age, sex, ethnicity, etc.
based on Claritas quantifications of each market using root Census data
and
annual updates. In today's world, this is as close as you can get to a
true
random probability sample where there is no recruitment bias.

There is nothing "hand picked" about the sample. Stations can not ask to
have diaries sent to anyone. It's all random.

And the diary method is going away, as the People Meter rolls out over the
next few years. It's already in Philly and Houston, and does full
electronic
measurement of a perfectly balanced sample.





David Eduardo March 16th 07 05:48 AM

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

, ground condutivity, tc.

Must be a piece of crap software you use.


It's the most used software for both vieweing existing operations and
for creating applications for new stations. It gives very precise
contours per the FCC rules, although I used the option to do signal
averaging for a ZIP Code since the data I am referencing to, Arbitron
listening, can be broken into ZIP Codes also.


So how are you misusing it then?


I am not misusing it. It's pretty easy to use even for a layman, and totally
simple for someone with an engineering background.

Yet listeners do not listen to them when the signal is below 10 mv/m
in your ZIP code.


Sounds like a false assumption.


It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones, there
is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour.
..

My listening data comes from the 4-book average for listening in your
ZIP code, correlated with actual signal strength there.


So what is wrong with your data then?


Nothing. In urban zones, there is no listening to speak of outside the 10
mv/m contour... in very noisy places like NY and LA, there is very little
outside the 15 mv/m curves.

The simple fact is that in densely populated areas in the US, there
is seldom any AM listening outside the 10 mv/m contour.


Somehow you have misinterpreted the data.


There is nothing to misinterpret. In your ZIP, no station with below a 10
mv/m get listening.

Somehow you are going wrong here. What do you think the problem might be?


I know what the problem is... you are stubborn and do not understand that
few listeners are even interested in non-local stations, and when combined
with signals that are not reliable day and nigh and which can be subject to
interference, they don't listen to them.




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