why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

"HFguy" wrote in message
news:zxOKh.349$742.209@trndny07...
I know what the problem is... you are stubborn and do not understand that
few listeners are even interested in non-local stations, and when
combined
with signals that are not reliable day and nigh and which can be subject
to
interference, they don't listen to them.

The real problem is that you, Edweenie, don't realize that you are
posting in
what is ostensibly a *hobby* news group, where folks actually *do* listen
to
things that fall outside of the parameters of your little fantasy world.

It's not a fantasy world. It's just that we (here) don't fit into the
demographics of the vast majority of AM listeners. If we had it our way,
there would be no interference problems to prohibit us from listening to
distant AM stations. But the consequence of that would be fewer AM
stations in the future to listen too. You can't have the first without the
second, given the state that AM radio is in now. Unfortunately for us, the
numbers will win in the end and we really can't do anything about it. As
he said, radio is all about the money.

And maybe we should all be wondering how we DX the HD signals. We are
starting to hear that they do skip, and when alone on a channel, rather easy
to ID.

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

Continuing with the info-mercial, David Frackelton Gleason, who poses as
'Eduardo', and whose employer, Univision, has an interest in HD/IBOC, wrote:

"HFguy" wrote in message
news:zRNKh.347$742.57@trndny07...
David Eduardo wrote:

This is not market research of some unknown brand. It is the analysis by
ZIP Code and signal strength of what gets listening and what does not.
Smaller signals get no significant diary mentions.

How often do shortwave entries show up in the diaries?

I have been reviewing diaries since 1970 (you have to go to Arbitron in
suburban Maryland to see them) and have never seen an SW entry.

They must have thrown mine way! I've completed two diaries, and both had entries
for SW radio.

Guess that makes the whole process pretty much worthless!

Figures...

The info-mercial goes on, and on, and on.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

Continuing with the info-mercial, David Frackelton Gleason, who poses as
'Eduardo', and whose employer, Univision, has an interest in HD/IBOC, wrote:

"HFguy" wrote in message
news:zxOKh.349$742.209@trndny07...
I know what the problem is... you are stubborn and do not understand that
few listeners are even interested in non-local stations, and when
combined
with signals that are not reliable day and nigh and which can be subject
to
interference, they don't listen to them.

The real problem is that you, Edweenie, don't realize that you are
posting in
what is ostensibly a *hobby* news group, where folks actually *do* listen
to
things that fall outside of the parameters of your little fantasy world.

It's not a fantasy world. It's just that we (here) don't fit into the
demographics of the vast majority of AM listeners. If we had it our way,
there would be no interference problems to prohibit us from listening to
distant AM stations. But the consequence of that would be fewer AM
stations in the future to listen too. You can't have the first without the
second, given the state that AM radio is in now. Unfortunately for us, the
numbers will win in the end and we really can't do anything about it. As
he said, radio is all about the money.

And maybe we should all be wondering how we DX the HD signals. We are
starting to hear that they do skip, and when alone on a channel, rather easy
to ID.

Well, at least that makes it easy to ID the QRM.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

?

I have been reviewing diaries since 1970 (you have to go to Arbitron in
suburban Maryland to see them) and have never seen an SW entry.

They must have thrown mine way! I've completed two diaries, and both had
entries
for SW radio.

No diary that is filled out (name and address and a tick on each page that
says it was filled out) is thrown away. Even if no local station gets
mentioned. Or no station at all.

All I am saying is that I never personally saw an SW entry, although I would
imagine one pops up on occasion. Since each station that gets a mention of 5
minutes or more in a diary is also in the computer database called Maximi$er
that Arbitron gives to subscribers, I can say I have never seen a SW station
appearing in a local market report, either.

If they occur, they are very few and not regular in any market.


Guess that makes the whole process pretty much worthless!

No, it makes it realistic.

Figures...

The info-mercial goes on, and on, and on.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in
message

.com...
In article , "David
Eduardo" wrote:
, ground condutivity, tc.

Must be a piece of crap software you use.

It's the most used software for both vieweing existing operations
and for creating applications for new stations. It gives very
precise contours per the FCC rules, although I used the option to
do signal averaging for a ZIP Code since the data I am referencing
to, Arbitron listening, can be broken into ZIP Codes also.

So how are you misusing it then?

I am not misusing it. It's pretty easy to use even for a layman, and
totally simple for someone with an engineering background.

Yet listeners do not listen to them when the signal is below 10
mv/m in your ZIP code.

Sounds like a false assumption.

It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones,
there is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour. .

My listening data comes from the 4-book average for listening in
your ZIP code, correlated with actual signal strength there.

So what is wrong with your data then?

Nothing. In urban zones, there is no listening to speak of outside
the 10 mv/m contour... in very noisy places like NY and LA, there is
very little outside the 15 mv/m curves.

The simple fact is that in densely populated areas in the US,
there is seldom any AM listening outside the 10 mv/m contour.

Somehow you have misinterpreted the data.

There is nothing to misinterpret. In your ZIP, no station with below
a 10 mv/m get listening.

Somehow you are going wrong here. What do you think the problem
might be?

I know what the problem is... you are stubborn and do not understand
that few listeners are even interested in non-local stations, and
when combined with signals that are not reliable day and nigh and
which can be subject to interference, they don't listen to them.

Along with not being interested in where your assumptions are incorrect
you don't seem to be as interested in reality as you are your own
special view of it.

There are far more than 3 stations that are local to me. There are over
a dozen. You know this but will not acknowledge it. These local
stations put in strong signals so noise is not an issue. There is no
problem picking them up. You don't have to "try" for them.

Your statement that nobody has more than 3 strong signal stations is a
complete fabrication. The fact that you will not acknowledge it when
called on your bad assumptions shows that you will continue to post
articles with fabricated information to the news group.


Sorted by distance from my location.

Call Freq Dist. in miles City Format dBm

KVEN *1450 AM 3.4 *Ventura, CA *Oldies -29
KKZZ *1590 AM 6.2 *Ventura, CA Talk -32
KOXR *910 AM 9.3 *Oxnard, CA *Spanish -40
KUNX 1400 AM 11.6 *Santa Paula, CA *Spanish -65
KVTA 1520 AM 12.3 *Port Hueneme, CA *Talk -39
KZSB *1290 AM 24.4 *Santa Barbara, CA *News -55
KIST * 1340 AM 24.4 *Santa Barbara, CA *Talk -55
KBKO *1490 AM 24.4 *Santa Barbara, CA Simulcast of KTMS 990 -55
KZER *1250 AM 31.5 *Santa Barbara, CA *Spanish -56
KIRN *670 AM 32.8 *Simi Valley, CA *Ethnic -66
KSPN *710 AM 50.9 *Los Angeles, CA *Sports -60
KNX *1070 AM 61.5 *Los Angeles, CA *News -54
KRLA 870 AM 61.7 *Glendale, CA *News/Talk -65
KFI *640 AM 78.4 *Los Angeles, CA *Talk -68
KOGO 600 AM 168 San Diego, CA Talk -69

Sorted by daytime signal strength.

Call Freq Dist. in miles City Format dBm

KVEN *1450 AM 3.4 *Ventura, CA Oldies -29
KKZZ *1590 AM 6.2 *Ventura, CA Talk -32
KVTA *1520 AM 12.3 * Port Hueneme, CA Talk -39
KOXR *910 AM 9.3 Oxnard, CA *Spanish -40
KNX *1070 AM 61.5 *Los Angeles, CA News -54
KZSB *1290 AM 24.4 *Santa Barbara, CA News -55
KIST *1340 AM 24.4 *Santa Barbara, CA Talk -55
KBKO *1490 AM 24.4 *Santa Barbara, CA Simulcast of KTMS 990 -55
KZER *1250 AM 31.5 *Santa Barbara, CA *Spanish -56
KSPN *710 AM 50.9 *Los Angeles, CA *Sports -60
KUNX *1400 AM 11.6 *Santa Paula, CA *Spanish -65
KRLA *870 AM 61.7 *Glendale, CA *News/Talk -65
KIRN *670 AM 32.8 *Simi Valley, CA *Ethnic -66
KFI *640 AM 78.4 *Los Angeles, CA *Talk -68
KOGO 600 AM 168 San Diego, CA Talk -69

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:

David Eduardo wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message
..
.
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:
, ground condutivity, tc.
Must be a piece of crap software you use.
It's the most used software for both vieweing existing operations and
for creating applications for new stations. It gives very precise
contours per the FCC rules, although I used the option to do signal
averaging for a ZIP Code since the data I am referencing to, Arbitron
listening, can be broken into ZIP Codes also.
So how are you misusing it then?

I am not misusing it. It's pretty easy to use even for a layman, and
totally
simple for someone with an engineering background.
Yet listeners do not listen to them when the signal is below 10 mv/m
in your ZIP code.
Sounds like a false assumption.

It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones, there
is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour.


Pardon me for butting into this love-fest, but let's try to
establish an understanding of what really are the objections here. And
why this exchange can get as heated as it does.

Start with the presentation of Dismissal. David, 'essentially none'
is not the same as 'none.' Just as statistical zero is not zero.

And what's been bandied about here, is the relative merits of simply
dismissing those numbers which don't fit a profile of behaviour mated to
a sales curve.

No one on either side of this discussion has suggested that 1) there
is zero listening outside the contours, nor that 2) what listening does
exist outside the contours is in mainstream numbers.

Snip

David is making that assumption based on signal strength. People will
not tune into weak signals and there are no more than 3 in a large
market so AM is pretty much Dead. I try to tell him that I live in the
northern part of one of the largest markets with many more choices and
he tells me according to some misconstrued data it is no so.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"RHF" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 16, 7:37 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message

...



He'd have to swing a LONG way the opposite direction to even get me to
pay
attention at this point. I have been a long-time viewer of Univision
and
Galavision television (until I moved here, where I have no access to
them
(and technically, they are one and the same at this point, IIRC)), but
thanks to the intractible stubbornness of David Edurardo, their
representative (at least of their radio group, but a corporate
representative nonetheless), I will not bother to watch their
television
outlets any longer. I never have listened to any of their radio
outlets,
preferring instead to listen to small local Spanish outlets when I was
in
that particular listening mood.

Since we do not have any radio stations in Oregon, that statement is
absurd



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

DE - You reply points out your Two Big Problem :

# 1 - The Certainty of Your Knowledge {Elitism}

# 2 - The Dismissive Attitude that you have for
Anyone who is Not Ratable and Salable.

Commercial radio sells sets of ears. If there are no ears, there are no
sales. If there are no sales, there is no commercial radio in the US. The
model has been about reaching listeners and selling their attention to
advertisers since the early 20's.

That's because you are deaf. Other people do not have your problem.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

?

I have been reviewing diaries since 1970 (you have to go to Arbitron in
suburban Maryland to see them) and have never seen an SW entry.

They must have thrown mine way! I've completed two diaries, and both had
entries
for SW radio.

No diary that is filled out (name and address and a tick on each page that
says it was filled out) is thrown away. Even if no local station gets
mentioned. Or no station at all.

All I am saying is that I never personally saw an SW entry, although I would
imagine one pops up on occasion. Since each station that gets a mention of 5
minutes or more in a diary is also in the computer database called Maximi$er
that Arbitron gives to subscribers, I can say I have never seen a SW station
appearing in a local market report, either.

If they occur, they are very few and not regular in any market.


Guess that makes the whole process pretty much worthless!

No, it makes it realistic.

Snip

So then that would make it realistically worthless then.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

Telamon wrote:

In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:

David Eduardo wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message
..
.
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:
, ground condutivity, tc.
Must be a piece of crap software you use.
It's the most used software for both vieweing existing operations and
for creating applications for new stations. It gives very precise
contours per the FCC rules, although I used the option to do signal
averaging for a ZIP Code since the data I am referencing to, Arbitron
listening, can be broken into ZIP Codes also.
So how are you misusing it then?

I am not misusing it. It's pretty easy to use even for a layman, and
totally
simple for someone with an engineering background.
Yet listeners do not listen to them when the signal is below 10 mv/m
in your ZIP code.
Sounds like a false assumption.

It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones, there
is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour.


Pardon me for butting into this love-fest, but let's try to
establish an understanding of what really are the objections here. And
why this exchange can get as heated as it does.

Start with the presentation of Dismissal. David, 'essentially none'
is not the same as 'none.' Just as statistical zero is not zero.

And what's been bandied about here, is the relative merits of simply
dismissing those numbers which don't fit a profile of behaviour mated to
a sales curve.

No one on either side of this discussion has suggested that 1) there
is zero listening outside the contours, nor that 2) what listening does
exist outside the contours is in mainstream numbers.

Snip

David is making that assumption based on signal strength. People will
not tune into weak signals and there are no more than 3 in a large
market so AM is pretty much Dead. I try to tell him that I live in the
northern part of one of the largest markets with many more choices and
he tells me according to some misconstrued data it is no so.

All the poor boy has are his numbers! I think he's been shunned by the others at the
tequila cooler.

why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
 

In article ,
dxAce wrote:

Telamon wrote:

In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:

David Eduardo wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message

om..
.
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:
, ground condutivity, tc.
Must be a piece of crap software you use.
It's the most used software for both vieweing existing operations and
for creating applications for new stations. It gives very precise
contours per the FCC rules, although I used the option to do signal
averaging for a ZIP Code since the data I am referencing to, Arbitron
listening, can be broken into ZIP Codes also.
So how are you misusing it then?

I am not misusing it. It's pretty easy to use even for a
layman, and totally simple for someone with an engineering
background.
Yet listeners do not listen to them when the signal is below
10 mv/m in your ZIP code.
Sounds like a false assumption.

It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban
zones, there is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m
contour.


Pardon me for butting into this love-fest, but let's try to
establish an understanding of what really are the objections here. And
why this exchange can get as heated as it does.

Start with the presentation of Dismissal. David, 'essentially none'
is not the same as 'none.' Just as statistical zero is not zero.

And what's been bandied about here, is the relative merits of simply
dismissing those numbers which don't fit a profile of behaviour mated to
a sales curve.

No one on either side of this discussion has suggested that 1) there
is zero listening outside the contours, nor that 2) what listening does
exist outside the contours is in mainstream numbers.

Snip

David is making that assumption based on signal strength. People will
not tune into weak signals and there are no more than 3 in a large
market so AM is pretty much Dead. I try to tell him that I live in the
northern part of one of the largest markets with many more choices and
he tells me according to some misconstrued data it is no so.

All the poor boy has are his numbers!

I just posted some new numbers for him to mull over.

I think he's been shunned by the others at the tequila cooler.

A switch to vodka might help.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California