On Nov 16, 12:03 am, Bart Bailey wrote:
In

posted on Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:59:46 -0800 (PST), Steve wrote: Begin





On Nov 14, 10:02 pm, Joe Analssandrini
wrote:

I do not want to get into a discussion about the merits of the AR7030
'Plus' vs. the Icom 756Pro-III, especially as I have never seen one of
the Icoms, but I would ask that people here cease repeating the old
canards about operating the AR7030 'Plus' as they have long-since been
discredited. First, even if one wishes to use the radio with its
controls alone, it is just not that hard to do! If one can operate a
VCR, a DVD player, one of the new HD televisions, or even a cell-
phone, he/she will find operating the AR7030 a "piece of cake." We
have ALL learned to use "menu-driven" products in the last ten years!

When people complain that the menu system is 'complicated', I don't
think they mean that it is complicated in the sense of 'difficult to
understand'. Rather, they mean--or at any rate, I would mean--that it
is complicated in the sense of requiring a larger number of movements
or 'button pushes' and/or 'dial twists' per setting change. If you're
DXing weak signals you will likely be continually adjusting some
setting or other. It's not like a VCR or HD television, where you get
it set up and then just let it go. Adding just a single modest step to
the process of adjusting filter width or notch might not seem like a
big deal, but you have to imagine it multiplied many thousands of
times.

But isn't knob twirling and button pushing
an accepted part of the allure of SW DXing?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, it's accepted. It's accepted because it's inevitable, but I don't
think anyone wants to there to be any more knob twiddling and button
pushing than is necessary to get the job done.

Steve wrote:


Yes, it's accepted. It's accepted because it's inevitable, but I don't
think anyone wants to there to be any more knob twiddling and button
pushing than is necessary to get the job done.

You haven't seen the subset of people who enjoy regenerative sets, I
take it?


Or, for that matter, you don't know anyone who drives a manual because
they enjoy it?

On Nov 16, 12:54 pm, Bart Bailey wrote:
In

posted on Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:54:03 -0800 (PST), Steve wrote: Begin

On Nov 16, 12:03 am, Bart Bailey wrote:
In

But isn't knob twirling and button pushing
an accepted part of the allure of SW DXing?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, it's accepted. It's accepted because it's inevitable, but I don't
think anyone wants to there to be any more knob twiddling and button
pushing than is necessary to get the job done.

My point was that playing with the knobs and features is an integral
component of the joy of 'digging 'em out', otherwise someone would just
tune to a local broadcast for set it and forget it entertainment.

Point understood and taken. My point was that this doesn't warrant
controls that are more complex than necessary, which is what many find
to be the case with the 7030+. Otherwise I'm sure someone could sit
down and devise a set of controls so complex as to require hundreds of
motions and button pushes just to change the filter width.

On Nov 16, 9:54 am, Bart Bailey wrote:
In

posted on Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:54:03 -0800 (PST), Steve wrote: Begin

On Nov 16, 12:03 am, Bart Bailey wrote:
In

But isn't knob twirling and button pushing
an accepted part of the allure of SW DXing?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, it's accepted. It's accepted because it's inevitable, but I don't
think anyone wants to there to be any more knob twiddling and button
pushing than is necessary to get the job done.

My point was that playing with the knobs and features is an integral
component of the joy of 'digging 'em out', otherwise someone would just
tune to a local broadcast for set it and forget it entertainment.

Here is the short explanation. Old farts can't handle the ar7030
menus. if you understand computers, the menus are not an issue. What
the menus do buy you is a compact radio, since you don't need all the
space for buttons and knobs. Again, I'll repeat, I never use the
remote. The menus are quite easy to use.

On Nov 16, 3:31 pm, wrote:
Here is the short explanation. Old farts can't handle the ar7030
menus. if you understand computers, the menus are not an issue. What
the menus do buy you is a compact radio, since you don't need all the
space for buttons and knobs. Again, I'll repeat, I never use the
remote. The menus are quite easy to use.

I have no doubt that the menus are easy to use--that's not the issue.
My concern is that they're tedious to use. Having to go through a menu
to get to a function just can't compare to having a dedicated control
for that function.

In article
,
wrote:

On Nov 16, 3:31 pm, wrote:
Here is the short explanation. Old farts can't handle the ar7030
menus. if you understand computers, the menus are not an issue. What
the menus do buy you is a compact radio, since you don't need all the
space for buttons and knobs. Again, I'll repeat, I never use the
remote. The menus are quite easy to use.

I have no doubt that the menus are easy to use--that's not the issue.
My concern is that they're tedious to use. Having to go through a menu
to get to a function just can't compare to having a dedicated control
for that function.

Use the remote control then.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

wrote:
On Nov 16, 3:31 pm, wrote:
Here is the short explanation. Old farts can't handle the ar7030
menus. if you understand computers, the menus are not an issue. What
the menus do buy you is a compact radio, since you don't need all the
space for buttons and knobs. Again, I'll repeat, I never use the
remote. The menus are quite easy to use.

I have no doubt that the menus are easy to use--that's not the issue.
My concern is that they're tedious to use. Having to go through a menu
to get to a function just can't compare to having a dedicated control
for that function.


The menues are adaptive....that is, the functions you use most often
are nearer the top. There isn't any tedious hunting. And you can set
preferences for nearly every frequency you use.

My recommendation is to use one for a while. Not just around the
block. For a weekend.

After a while, the menu trees become not only second nature, but
transparent. And most functions you prefer to use are near the top.

The menu trees are really not an issue on this radio.

On Nov 17, 5:35 pm, D Peter Maus wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 16, 3:31 pm, wrote:
Here is the short explanation. Old farts can't handle the ar7030
menus. if you understand computers, the menus are not an issue. What
the menus do buy you is a compact radio, since you don't need all the
space for buttons and knobs. Again, I'll repeat, I never use the
remote. The menus are quite easy to use.

I have no doubt that the menus are easy to use--that's not the issue.
My concern is that they're tedious to use. Having to go through a menu
to get to a function just can't compare to having a dedicated control
for that function.

The menues are adaptive....that is, the functions you use most often
are nearer the top. There isn't any tedious hunting. And you can set
preferences for nearly every frequency you use.

My recommendation is to use one for a while. Not just around the
block. For a weekend.

After a while, the menu trees become not only second nature, but
transparent. And most functions you prefer to use are near the top.

The menu trees are really not an issue on this radio.

I agree with you here. It does become second nature. There's nothing
cognitively challenging or demanding about the menu structure *at
all*. However, from the point of view of ergonomics it literally boils
down to a matter of efficiency and economy of hand movements, as is so
often the case in this area. But this is still a minor nit to pick
with what is unquestionably an outstanding receiver.

Steve

In article
,
wrote:

On Nov 16, 9:54 am, Bart Bailey wrote:
In


posted on Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:54:03 -0800 (PST), Steve wrote: Begin

On Nov 16, 12:03 am, Bart Bailey wrote:
In

But isn't knob twirling and button pushing
an accepted part of the allure of SW DXing?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, it's accepted. It's accepted because it's inevitable, but I don't
think anyone wants to there to be any more knob twiddling and button
pushing than is necessary to get the job done.

My point was that playing with the knobs and features is an integral
component of the joy of 'digging 'em out', otherwise someone would just
tune to a local broadcast for set it and forget it entertainment.

Here is the short explanation. Old farts can't handle the ar7030
menus. if you understand computers, the menus are not an issue. What
the menus do buy you is a compact radio, since you don't need all the
space for buttons and knobs. Again, I'll repeat, I never use the
remote. The menus are quite easy to use.

Look I've been through this. I have purchased 10's of millions of
dollars in test equipment that operate in different ways and the
preference that all users of that equipment have shown to me is a knob
or button for every function. People do not want to go through menus to
get to some operating function. These people are engineers and
technicians.

And I'll repeat that if you don't use the remote you are just plain
dumb. Sure the menus are just fine but you can push a button on the
remote that take several button pushes on the front panel so why go that
route.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

On Nov 16, 7:43 pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article
,



wrote:
On Nov 16, 9:54 am, Bart Bailey wrote:
In


posted on Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:54:03 -0800 (PST), Steve wrote: Begin

On Nov 16, 12:03 am, Bart Bailey wrote:
In

But isn't knob twirling and button pushing
an accepted part of the allure of SW DXing?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, it's accepted. It's accepted because it's inevitable, but I don't
think anyone wants to there to be any more knob twiddling and button
pushing than is necessary to get the job done.

My point was that playing with the knobs and features is an integral
component of the joy of 'digging 'em out', otherwise someone would just
tune to a local broadcast for set it and forget it entertainment.

Here is the short explanation. Old farts can't handle the ar7030
menus. if you understand computers, the menus are not an issue. What
the menus do buy you is a compact radio, since you don't need all the
space for buttons and knobs. Again, I'll repeat, I never use the
remote. The menus are quite easy to use.

Look I've been through this. I have purchased 10's of millions of
dollars in test equipment that operate in different ways and the
preference that all users of that equipment have shown to me is a knob
or button for every function. People do not want to go through menus to
get to some operating function. These people are engineers and
technicians.

And I'll repeat that if you don't use the remote you are just plain
dumb. Sure the menus are just fine but you can push a button on the
remote that take several button pushes on the front panel so why go that
route.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Eh, I've bought my share of test eq too. I like the menus if they are
done well. Hp started to use soft buttons in the 80s and hasn't gone
back.