"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

I said that the ambient noise from the car itself as well as road noise
are
such that most stereo information is lost or imperceptible in vehicles
and,
thus, not appreciated. In addition, the processing on nearly all stations
reduces the dynamic range, so the stereo effect of different levels from
left and right is eliminated... and that applies to any listening
location.

It's easy to perceive depending on the material. Say a different
instrument comes from left and right at the same volume. Easy to tell
even with road noise.

Part of the perception of dimension comes from dynamic range. Radio so
limits range that the information is lost and the ability to interpret
spatial relationsips is diminished.


I said that there were stations that got the stereo light to shine
without
actually being in stereo. The objective was deceiptful, as what they
wanted
was to make people think that the station was stereo when it wasn't. Most
people never figured that out as they couldn't tell the difference.

How am I supposed to know about most people. You saying most people are
stupid then?

No, most people don't realize there is no stereo separation because the lit
stereo light convinces them it is stereo when it is not.

I don't believe the 60% mono figure. You are not making any sense
at all today.

I really don't care what you believe as you have no data to the
contrary while the radio industry has countless valid surveys.

People don't lie in the surveys? Mistakes are not made? Silly people
like you are not around to misinterpret the data?


My staff does about a hundred thousand interviews a year, all of which I can
monitor. We see no indication of lies, since lying about a station or about
music they like has no gain. QC will avoid mistakes, and a percentage of
reconfirm callbacks can achieve that. As to the interpretation, we've done
better in the ratings than any other major player over the last years, so we
must be doing our research, interpretation and implementation quite well.

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

[snip]


No, most people don't realize there is no stereo separation because the
lit
stereo light convinces them it is stereo when it is not.

[snip]

Let's not forget about modern FM car radios. My car's radio blends from
stereo to mono quite seamlessly as signals become less than ideal. If I pay
attention, I'll notice that the reception is in weak stereo or full mono
much of the time. That's preferable because there's practially no distorted
audio, abrupt switches from stereo to mono and picket fencing that come with
full time stereo car radios. All the while, the stereo light never blinks
off.

Frank Dresser

In article ,
"Frank Dresser" wrote:

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

[snip]


No, most people don't realize there is no stereo separation because the
lit
stereo light convinces them it is stereo when it is not.

[snip]

Let's not forget about modern FM car radios. My car's radio blends from
stereo to mono quite seamlessly as signals become less than ideal. If I pay
attention, I'll notice that the reception is in weak stereo or full mono
much of the time. That's preferable because there's practially no distorted
audio, abrupt switches from stereo to mono and picket fencing that come with
full time stereo car radios. All the while, the stereo light never blinks
off.

The stereo indicator only lights when a 19KHz pilot carrier is present.
The program material could be monophonic or stereo.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Frank Dresser" wrote:

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

[snip]


No, most people don't realize there is no stereo separation because
the
lit
stereo light convinces them it is stereo when it is not.

[snip]

Let's not forget about modern FM car radios. My car's radio blends from
stereo to mono quite seamlessly as signals become less than ideal. If I
pay
attention, I'll notice that the reception is in weak stereo or full mono
much of the time. That's preferable because there's practially no
distorted
audio, abrupt switches from stereo to mono and picket fencing that come
with
full time stereo car radios. All the while, the stereo light never
blinks
off.

The stereo indicator only lights when a 19KHz pilot carrier is present.
The program material could be monophonic or stereo.


Yes, but the stereo demodulator blends to mono as the signal weakens. Mono
demodulation needs far less signal to get a good signal to noise radio. And
this isn't the stereo to mono auto switching the older demodulators used,
it's a gradual blend without an abrupt shift. The system works quite well
and I'm sure much of the time it's working as a mono demodulator on weak
signal stereo programming. There isn't even a stereo-mono switch on the
radio. It doesn't need one.

Frank Dresser

In article ,
"Frank Dresser" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Frank Dresser" wrote:

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

[snip]


No, most people don't realize there is no stereo separation because
the
lit
stereo light convinces them it is stereo when it is not.

[snip]

Let's not forget about modern FM car radios. My car's radio blends from
stereo to mono quite seamlessly as signals become less than ideal. If I
pay
attention, I'll notice that the reception is in weak stereo or full mono
much of the time. That's preferable because there's practially no
distorted
audio, abrupt switches from stereo to mono and picket fencing that come
with
full time stereo car radios. All the while, the stereo light never
blinks
off.

The stereo indicator only lights when a 19KHz pilot carrier is present.
The program material could be monophonic or stereo.


Yes, but the stereo demodulator blends to mono as the signal weakens. Mono
demodulation needs far less signal to get a good signal to noise radio. And
this isn't the stereo to mono auto switching the older demodulators used,
it's a gradual blend without an abrupt shift. The system works quite well
and I'm sure much of the time it's working as a mono demodulator on weak
signal stereo programming. There isn't even a stereo-mono switch on the
radio. It doesn't need one.

I haven't kept up with developments. How is this blending accomplished?
Maybe you could point me toward someone's FM demodulator chip.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

I haven't kept up with developments. How is this blending accomplished?
Maybe you could point me toward someone's FM demodulator chip.


I believe the troublesome L-R signal is AGC controlled. Strong signal
reception gets full L-R which gets reduced with decreasing signal strength,
while the L+R signal remains at full strength with all signal levels.

Anyway, here's one chip:

http://eshop.engineering.uiowa.edu/N...9/DS007973.pdf


Frank Dresser

In article ,
"Frank Dresser" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

I haven't kept up with developments. How is this blending accomplished?
Maybe you could point me toward someone's FM demodulator chip.


I believe the troublesome L-R signal is AGC controlled. Strong signal
reception gets full L-R which gets reduced with decreasing signal strength,
while the L+R signal remains at full strength with all signal levels.

Anyway, here's one chip:

http://eshop.engineering.uiowa.edu/N...9/DS007973.pdf

I see page 7 has a curve showing 0 to just over 50 dB of separation.

The chip was released back in 1987, interesting.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

I said that the ambient noise from the car itself as well as road noise
are
such that most stereo information is lost or imperceptible in vehicles
and,
thus, not appreciated. In addition, the processing on nearly all stations
reduces the dynamic range, so the stereo effect of different levels from
left and right is eliminated... and that applies to any listening
location.

It's easy to perceive depending on the material. Say a different
instrument comes from left and right at the same volume. Easy to tell
even with road noise.

Part of the perception of dimension comes from dynamic range. Radio so
limits range that the information is lost and the ability to interpret
spatial relationsips is diminished.

That's right Eduardo, dynamic range only plays a part in stereo.

I said that there were stations that got the stereo light to shine
without actually being in stereo. The objective was deceiptful, as
what they wanted was to make people think that the station was
stereo when it wasn't. Most people never figured that out as they
couldn't tell the difference.

How am I supposed to know about most people. You saying most people
are stupid then?

No, most people don't realize there is no stereo separation because
the lit stereo light convinces them it is stereo when it is not.

I can't speak for most people and neither can you. I am quite capable of
telling the difference.

I don't believe the 60% mono figure. You are not making any
sense at all today.

I really don't care what you believe as you have no data to the
contrary while the radio industry has countless valid surveys.

People don't lie in the surveys? Mistakes are not made? Silly
people like you are not around to misinterpret the data?


My staff does about a hundred thousand interviews a year, all of
which I can monitor. We see no indication of lies, since lying about
a station or about music they like has no gain. QC will avoid
mistakes, and a percentage of reconfirm callbacks can achieve that.
As to the interpretation, we've done better in the ratings than any
other major player over the last years, so we must be doing our
research, interpretation and implementation quite well.

You do not understand the scientific process and bias the results of
your interviews in a number of ways so the results fit your preconceived
notions. Do continue to fool yourself.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California