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On 10/13/09 15:07 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 14:30 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 13:52 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 12:47 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/12/09 14:59 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...



Stereo destroys FM coverage. Those engineers were right.

And those that were purists and held to that belief....are all
out
of
business.



Not so much. I encounter one or two non-stereo stations
every
week
when
I'm on the road.


Please name them and their location.




I hear them when I'm on the road. I don't have time to catalog
them.

The last two I heard this past week were in southeastern
Missouri
and
southern Illinois.

I don't know Peter...it sounds more anecdotal than anything....



No different than your assertion, my man.


You made a generalization about how many stations are still in mono...I
asked you to back up that statement...and you couldn't.



Just as you made a generalization about how many stations weren't in
mono. Also without any support.

Do you dispute that there most stations are in stereo?


That was never in dispute.



I'm sure you don't drive the backroads with a pad and paper recording
calls, city of license, and whether the pilot is lit.

Then do a little research.

You'd be more likely to believe the results if you looked it up than
if I told you about them. But you're not likely to find whether or not the
pilot is lit in any of the databases. It's not something that's listed.



I might suggest this: The next time you travel, scan the dial. See if
you don't find a couple, yourself.

I don't know the last time I picked up a station that was in mono on FM
(unless it was a pirate.)

And then see if you can recall the name and location when someone
asks
you the following week.:)

If I DID hear one in mono...I'd certainly remember it.


I remember it, too. I just don't remember which station of the 9 or
so I heard in that region. Keep in mind you're talking about a drive that
was 700+ miles long, with stations 40 miles and more from where I was at
the moment. That's a band 700 miles long, and at least 80 miles wide.

Lots of stations in there to look up.

But if you'd like the route, it was from Collinsville, Oklahoma to
Chicago, mostly on 44 in Missouri, and 55 in Illinois.

All of which may or may not be of interest beyond the academic.

The point is that there are still FM stations in mono, and some of
them are doing quite well.


Please name me a few!


And we return to the beginning.

Enjoy the ride.

HD Radio - Trend to watch: Team-branded HD2s !!
 

"Bob Dobbs" wrote in message
news:4ad5e8ed.2721187@chupacabra...
SMS wrote:
the HD is standard on most new mobile
audio systems,

When I hear some saying HD is dead and no one is buying it,
why would it be so ubiquitous in new gear?


It's really not. Many new car sound systems come "HD Ready". This has
always been a lie. Just like "HDTV Ready" was. All it means is you have a
connector in the back to plug a converter or tuner into, which costs a bunch
of extra money, and I don't know a single person outside of a couple in this
group that have ever bought one.

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Bob Dobbs wrote:
SMS wrote:
the HD is standard on most new mobile
audio systems,

When I hear some saying HD is dead and no one is buying it,
why would it be so ubiquitous in new gear?


Isn't Ford an ibiquity partner? Car radios are a dying phenomenon.
Kids hate them, because the programming sucks.

HD Radio - Trend to watch: Team-branded HD2s !!
 

Brenda Ann wrote:
"D. Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 13:52 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 12:47 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/12/09 14:59 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...

Stereo destroys FM coverage. Those engineers were right.
And those that were purists and held to that belief....are all out
of
business.


Not so much. I encounter one or two non-stereo stations every
week
when
I'm on the road.

Please name them and their location.



I hear them when I'm on the road. I don't have time to catalog
them.

The last two I heard this past week were in southeastern Missouri
and
southern Illinois.
I don't know Peter...it sounds more anecdotal than anything....


No different than your assertion, my man.

You made a generalization about how many stations are still in mono...I
asked you to back up that statement...and you couldn't.


Just as you made a generalization about how many stations weren't in
mono. Also without any support.

I'm sure you don't drive the backroads with a pad and paper recording
calls, city of license, and whether the pilot is lit. Neither do I. On a
road trip, I may hear 15 radio stations a day. I don't record the calls.
And they may be 40 miles from where I'm rolling at the time. The only
reason I noticed the stations I noticed is because the pilot wasn't lit.
But I certainly didn't spend any effort to find out who, or where, they
were.

I might suggest this: The next time you travel, scan the dial. See if
you don't find a couple, yourself.

And then see if you can recall the name and location when someone asks
you the following week.:)


A large number of recent FM conversions (sports/talkers) are extinguishing
the stereo lamp. No need for stereo on these stations, and it does save a
small amount on energy bills and increases the SNR on the fringes.


How would it save energy? FM just turns carrier into sidebands; the
current never changes.

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Jo Jo Gunn wrote:

(radiolocator links deleted to save a little bandwidth)

You actually proved my point. The blue area (while we all know that's
only predicted) is just about exactly where I used to receive the
signals on my stock 1996 Chevy pickup FM radio in the pre-HD days. KVMR
was a little better because their transmitter is so high off the valley
floor.

Most radio stations do not make any money from DX listeners. Stations are
not interested in servicing areas outside of their assigned license.

KPIG used to have ads for Streetlight Records in San Jose, as well as
some of the Stevens Creek car dealers. KVMR was very interested in
their ability to cover Sacramento. So much so that they had a
translator there for a while. While your statement is probably correct
for the conglomerates, there certainly are exceptions.

People listening in the metro area of a signals are going to be deprived so
a few people on the outskirts are able to pick up an out of town signal?

Given the penetration of HD receivers, you could also say "a few people
in the metro area of a signal are going to be deprived" so that other
people in the metro can pick up a weaker signal. I check the HD-2
broadcasts of our local channels probably twice a week just to see if
they decided to do anything interesting. Sometimes I hear silence,
sometimes the same song over & over, sometimes the PAD doesn't match the
program, and sometimes the errors go unnoticed for days. That probably
means nobody is listening.

There's no way of knowing for sure, but I suspect that the number of
listeners that KKUP lost in the Bay Area far exceeds the number of
people listening to KALW in HD. Likewise, the number of listeners that
KVMR lost in Sacramento probably exceeds the number of people listening
to KQEI in HD. Also - why is it that the interference area extends so
far beyond where an HD radio will lock? Is the system really that bad?

Dave B.

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"dave" wrote in message
...
A large number of recent FM conversions (sports/talkers) are
extinguishing the stereo lamp. No need for stereo on these stations, and
it does save a small amount on energy bills and increases the SNR on the
fringes.


How would it save energy? FM just turns carrier into sidebands; the
current never changes.

All equipment draws power, that includes the stereo multiplex generator. If
they can switch that off, they save a few dollars a month on electricity.

HD Radio - Trend to watch: Team-branded HD2s !!
 

"Brenda Ann" writes:

"dave" wrote in message
...
A large number of recent FM conversions (sports/talkers) are
extinguishing the stereo lamp. No need for stereo on these stations, and
it does save a small amount on energy bills and increases the SNR on the
fringes.


How would it save energy? FM just turns carrier into sidebands; the
current never changes.

All equipment draws power, that includes the stereo multiplex generator. If
they can switch that off, they save a few dollars a month on electricity.

Well .. .now we know we're dealing with Chuckie ... When faced with a
trivial technical error, rather than say "Oops, that's right, I wasn't
thinking clearly" we get some cock-and-bull story ... I would be willing
to bet a steak dinner that the energy cost difference between MPX and
non-MPX would be less than the cost of said-same steak dinner.

HD Radio - Trend to watch: Team-branded HD2s !!
 

"Dave Barnett" wrote in message
...
Jo Jo Gunn wrote:

(radiolocator links deleted to save a little bandwidth)

You actually proved my point. The blue area (while we all know that's
only predicted) is just about exactly where I used to receive the signals
on my stock 1996 Chevy pickup FM radio in the pre-HD days. KVMR was a
little better because their transmitter is so high off the valley floor.

i think you made his point...that you are a fringe listener.

Most radio stations do not make any money from DX listeners. Stations
are not interested in servicing areas outside of their assigned license.

KPIG used to have ads for Streetlight Records in San Jose, as well as some
of the Stevens Creek car dealers. KVMR was very interested in their
ability to cover Sacramento. So much so that they had a translator there
for a while. While your statement is probably correct for the
conglomerates, there certainly are exceptions.

having one record store or a car dealer advertising is not an indicator that
much money was pulled from that area. it could have been part of a multi
station buy, rep firm, or a dealer looking to take advantage of a hole in
the market.

People listening in the metro area of a signals are going to be deprived
so a few people on the outskirts are able to pick up an out of town
signal?

Given the penetration of HD receivers, you could also say "a few people in
the metro area of a signal are going to be deprived" so that other people
in the metro can pick up a weaker signal. I check the HD-2 broadcasts of
our local channels probably twice a week just to see if they decided to do
anything interesting. Sometimes I hear silence, sometimes the same song
over & over, sometimes the PAD doesn't match the program, and sometimes
the errors go unnoticed for days. That probably means nobody is
listening.

like jo jo said....like FM in the early days. I remember hearing automation
fail on the early FM's...and i was always interested in how long it would be
before someone at the station noticed. multiple sources audio dead air
an element repeating over and over.

doesnt mean no one was listening.

;-)


There's no way of knowing for sure, but I suspect that the number of
listeners that KKUP lost in the Bay Area far exceeds the number of people
listening to KALW in HD. Likewise, the number of listeners that KVMR lost
in Sacramento probably exceeds the number of people listening to KQEI in
HD.

thats right...you'll never know...so you can only speculate. however, the
people with the money at risk, the investors and mangers who see the
research have a better understanding of where the listeners are and wherre
the money is. i trust their understanding of this is better than yours

Also - why is it that the interference area extends so far beyond where an
HD radio will lock? Is the system really that bad?

dx-ers have to put up with all sorts of stuff....it's the nature of the
game. stations dont care about dx-ers.....fcc doesn't care about
dxers....it's table scraps u take what you can get

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"D. Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 15:07 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 14:30 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 13:52 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 12:47 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/12/09 14:59 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in
message
...



Stereo destroys FM coverage. Those engineers were right.

And those that were purists and held to that belief....are all
out
of
business.



Not so much. I encounter one or two non-stereo stations
every
week
when
I'm on the road.


Please name them and their location.




I hear them when I'm on the road. I don't have time to
catalog
them.

The last two I heard this past week were in southeastern
Missouri
and
southern Illinois.

I don't know Peter...it sounds more anecdotal than anything....



No different than your assertion, my man.


You made a generalization about how many stations are still in
mono...I
asked you to back up that statement...and you couldn't.



Just as you made a generalization about how many stations weren't
in
mono. Also without any support.

Do you dispute that there most stations are in stereo?


That was never in dispute.



I'm sure you don't drive the backroads with a pad and paper
recording
calls, city of license, and whether the pilot is lit.

Then do a little research.

You'd be more likely to believe the results if you looked it up
than
if I told you about them. But you're not likely to find whether or not
the
pilot is lit in any of the databases. It's not something that's listed.



I might suggest this: The next time you travel, scan the dial. See
if
you don't find a couple, yourself.

I don't know the last time I picked up a station that was in mono on FM
(unless it was a pirate.)

And then see if you can recall the name and location when someone
asks
you the following week.:)

If I DID hear one in mono...I'd certainly remember it.


I remember it, too. I just don't remember which station of the 9
or
so I heard in that region. Keep in mind you're talking about a drive
that
was 700+ miles long, with stations 40 miles and more from where I was at
the moment. That's a band 700 miles long, and at least 80 miles wide.

Lots of stations in there to look up.

But if you'd like the route, it was from Collinsville, Oklahoma
to
Chicago, mostly on 44 in Missouri, and 55 in Illinois.

All of which may or may not be of interest beyond the academic.

The point is that there are still FM stations in mono, and some
of
them are doing quite well.


Please name me a few!


And we return to the beginning.

Enjoy the ride.


you keep making statements that u cant back up maus.

HD Radio - Trend to watch: Team-branded HD2s !!
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"D. Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 13:52 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 12:47 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/12/09 14:59 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...



Stereo destroys FM coverage. Those engineers were right.

And those that were purists and held to that belief....are all out
of
business.



Not so much. I encounter one or two non-stereo stations every
week
when
I'm on the road.


Please name them and their location.




I hear them when I'm on the road. I don't have time to catalog
them.

The last two I heard this past week were in southeastern Missouri
and
southern Illinois.

I don't know Peter...it sounds more anecdotal than anything....



No different than your assertion, my man.


You made a generalization about how many stations are still in mono...I
asked you to back up that statement...and you couldn't.



Just as you made a generalization about how many stations weren't in
mono. Also without any support.

I'm sure you don't drive the backroads with a pad and paper recording
calls, city of license, and whether the pilot is lit. Neither do I. On a
road trip, I may hear 15 radio stations a day. I don't record the calls.
And they may be 40 miles from where I'm rolling at the time. The only
reason I noticed the stations I noticed is because the pilot wasn't lit.
But I certainly didn't spend any effort to find out who, or where, they
were.

I might suggest this: The next time you travel, scan the dial. See if
you don't find a couple, yourself.

And then see if you can recall the name and location when someone asks
you the following week.:)


A large number of recent FM conversions (sports/talkers) are extinguishing
the stereo lamp. No need for stereo on these stations, and it does save a
small amount on energy bills and increases the SNR on the fringes.

once again, as jo jo asked....can you name one that has extinguished their
stereo pilot?

i think a lot of people use the stereo light for tuning so it might hurt
listenership even if its not needed.