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On 10/14/09 24:33 , Watchin & Waitin' wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 15:07 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 14:30 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 13:52 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 12:47 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/12/09 14:59 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in
message
...



Stereo destroys FM coverage. Those engineers were right.

And those that were purists and held to that belief....are all
out
of
business.



Not so much. I encounter one or two non-stereo stations
every
week
when
I'm on the road.


Please name them and their location.




I hear them when I'm on the road. I don't have time to
catalog
them.

The last two I heard this past week were in southeastern
Missouri
and
southern Illinois.

I don't know Peter...it sounds more anecdotal than anything....



No different than your assertion, my man.


You made a generalization about how many stations are still in
mono...I
asked you to back up that statement...and you couldn't.



Just as you made a generalization about how many stations weren't
in
mono. Also without any support.

Do you dispute that there most stations are in stereo?


That was never in dispute.



I'm sure you don't drive the backroads with a pad and paper
recording
calls, city of license, and whether the pilot is lit.

Then do a little research.

You'd be more likely to believe the results if you looked it up
than
if I told you about them. But you're not likely to find whether or not
the
pilot is lit in any of the databases. It's not something that's listed.



I might suggest this: The next time you travel, scan the dial. See
if
you don't find a couple, yourself.

I don't know the last time I picked up a station that was in mono on FM
(unless it was a pirate.)

And then see if you can recall the name and location when someone
asks
you the following week.:)

If I DID hear one in mono...I'd certainly remember it.


I remember it, too. I just don't remember which station of the 9
or
so I heard in that region. Keep in mind you're talking about a drive
that
was 700+ miles long, with stations 40 miles and more from where I was at
the moment. That's a band 700 miles long, and at least 80 miles wide.

Lots of stations in there to look up.

But if you'd like the route, it was from Collinsville, Oklahoma
to
Chicago, mostly on 44 in Missouri, and 55 in Illinois.

All of which may or may not be of interest beyond the academic.

The point is that there are still FM stations in mono, and some
of
them are doing quite well.


Please name me a few!


And we return to the beginning.

Enjoy the ride.


you keep making statements that u cant back up maus.



Pot-Kettle-Black.

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On 10/14/09 24:33 , Watchin & Waitin' wrote:
"Brenda wrote in message
...

"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 13:52 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 12:47 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 10/12/09 14:59 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...



Stereo destroys FM coverage. Those engineers were right.

And those that were purists and held to that belief....are all out
of
business.



Not so much. I encounter one or two non-stereo stations every
week
when
I'm on the road.


Please name them and their location.




I hear them when I'm on the road. I don't have time to catalog
them.

The last two I heard this past week were in southeastern Missouri
and
southern Illinois.

I don't know Peter...it sounds more anecdotal than anything....



No different than your assertion, my man.


You made a generalization about how many stations are still in mono...I
asked you to back up that statement...and you couldn't.



Just as you made a generalization about how many stations weren't in
mono. Also without any support.

I'm sure you don't drive the backroads with a pad and paper recording
calls, city of license, and whether the pilot is lit. Neither do I. On a
road trip, I may hear 15 radio stations a day. I don't record the calls.
And they may be 40 miles from where I'm rolling at the time. The only
reason I noticed the stations I noticed is because the pilot wasn't lit.
But I certainly didn't spend any effort to find out who, or where, they
were.

I might suggest this: The next time you travel, scan the dial. See if
you don't find a couple, yourself.

And then see if you can recall the name and location when someone asks
you the following week.:)


A large number of recent FM conversions (sports/talkers) are extinguishing
the stereo lamp. No need for stereo on these stations, and it does save a
small amount on energy bills and increases the SNR on the fringes.

once again, as jo jo asked....can you name one that has extinguished their
stereo pilot?

i think a lot of people use the stereo light for tuning so it might hurt
listenership even if its not needed.


That used to be true. FM Mono Mute was commonplace in home
receivers. Until better designs permitted lower noise stereo
listening. Keep in mind that many stations killed the pilot during
mono programming. Some NPR stations still do. WBEZ, Chicago still
does this. So does WFMT. Though mono programming is rare, today.
Today, selectable FM stereo itself is comparatively rare in low and
midlevel receiver design, with most FM capable receivers simply
hardwired to stereo, allowing the 'Blend' circuit to handle low
signal noise avoidance by progressively combining the two channels
as a function of signal strength, until eventually deep fringe
reception is in mono. So FM Mono Mute is no longer a useful
function, and like selectable stereo, is not included in many
receiver designs. In fact, many car radios no longer even include a
stereo pilot indicator. GM Car radios haven't included a stereo
pilot indicator for a number of years, now, or even a selectable
Mono function. The blend circuit, instead, reduced stereo separation
to control low signal noise, so there is no loss of reception during
mono broadcasting. I've got two Walkman portables that do not have a
stereo indicator, nor selectable mono reception, relying on a blend
circuit for FM noise control.

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On Oct 13, 7:17*am, Dave Barnett
wrote:
Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
No, the FCC has made a judgement on how far and how long a stations signal
would be protected.

That's the established standard. *The days of clear-channels being protected
nationwide are over.

No argument there. *I'm just saying that stations have listeners outside
their protected contours. *I volunteer at a local non-comm and we have
many subscribers who listen well outside our protected contour. *Not
only do they listen, but they donate money. *That surely says something..

I'd be interested in knowing where you are, and what station(s) you can no
longer listen too due to HD radio.

I live sometimes in the San Francisco Bay Area and sometimes in Pioneer,
CA (in the Sierras) In my case the interference happened on these
frequencies:

107.5 KPIG - used to be receivable throughout the South Bay until 107.7
in San Francisco turned on HD
95.9 KRSH - we used to listen to them at home before 95.7 turned on HD,
generally too weak to hear in a car.
91.5 KKUP - used to be receivable way up the peninsula and into Oakland
before 91.7 turned on HD
89.5 KVMR - used to be receivable throughout Sacramento until 89.3
turned on HD

KKUP and KVMR actually receive interference inside their protected
contours, and inside their city of license, due to terrain shielding and
power/HAAT discrepancy issues.

- *Another instance where the FCC is
- completely blind to the real world.

Reality Check on the Real World of Commercial Radio :
The FCC's Public Duty {Obligation} is to Manage the
Public Air-Waves to 'enable' Local Advertising {Business
-aka- Tax Revenue} in the Local Media Market Area :
Creating the Added Benefit of providing News, Information
and Entertainment to the Local Community.
-translation- Advertising Pays the Way to provide
the Public Benefit of Free Over-the-Air Radio.
-ps- The FCC Knows That as every US Congressperson
reminds them of Promoting Business in their Districts.


Interestingly enough, a few years ago I had a fence built and some
extensive landscaping done. *The guys doing the work were complaining
that they couldn't get KPIG anymore no matter where they were on a job.
* They were using a better-than-average boom box, but nothing special.
One of them was fiddling with the antenna and got a hint of the
station's audio, buried in digital carriers. *He said - "nope, it
doesn't work here either" and they switched to the local classic rock
station. *I knew why, but of course they had no idea. *That's only an
example of one. *Maybe the only one. *But I find it interesting.

I firmly believe that this will shake out one way or the other. *Either
with an expanded radio band, better digital accesss, ipv6 multicast, UDP
with forward error correction, etc. *There are a lot of ways looming on
the horizon for creative people to be heard. *Meanwhile, we do what we can.

Dave B.

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On Oct 13, 3:03*pm, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:
"D. Peter Maus" wrote in ...



On 10/13/09 13:52 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter *wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 12:47 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter * wrote in message
...
On 10/12/09 14:59 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter * *wrote in message
...

Stereo destroys FM coverage. *Those engineers were right.

And those that were purists and held to that belief....are all out
of
business.

* * *Not so much. I encounter one or two non-stereo stations every
week
when
I'm on the road.

Please name them and their location.

* * I hear them when I'm on the road. I don't have time to catalog
them.

* * The last two I heard this past week were in southeastern Missouri
and
southern Illinois.

I don't know Peter...it sounds more anecdotal than anything....

* *No different than your assertion, my man.

You made a generalization about how many stations are still in mono...I
asked you to back up that statement...and you couldn't.

* Just as you made a generalization about how many stations weren't in
mono. Also without any support.

* I'm sure you don't drive the backroads with a pad and paper recording
calls, city of license, and whether the pilot is lit. Neither do I. On a
road trip, I may hear 15 radio stations a day. I don't record the calls..
And they may be 40 miles from where I'm rolling at the time. The only
reason I noticed the stations I noticed is because the pilot wasn't lit..
But I certainly didn't spend any effort to find out who, or where, they
were.

* I might suggest this: The next time you travel, scan the dial. See if
you don't find a couple, yourself.

* And then see if you can recall the name and location when someone asks
you the following week.:)

- A large number of recent FM conversions (sports/talkers) are
extinguishing
- the stereo lamp. No need for stereo on these stations, and it does
save a
- small amount on energy bills and increases the SNR on the fringes.

1 - Know Your Product {Technology}

2 - Know Your Customers {Buyers}

Use #1 to Get More of #2
that's better business ~ RHF

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On Oct 13, 3:39*pm, dave wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote:
"D. Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 13:52 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter *wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 12:47 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter * wrote in message
...
On 10/12/09 14:59 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter * *wrote in message
...

Stereo destroys FM coverage. *Those engineers were right.
And those that were purists and held to that belief....are all out
of
business.

* * *Not so much. I encounter one or two non-stereo stations every
week
when
I'm on the road.

Please name them and their location.

* * I hear them when I'm on the road. I don't have time to catalog
them.

* * The last two I heard this past week were in southeastern Missouri
and
southern Illinois.
I don't know Peter...it sounds more anecdotal than anything....

* *No different than your assertion, my man.

You made a generalization about how many stations are still in mono....I
asked you to back up that statement...and you couldn't.

* Just as you made a generalization about how many stations weren't in
mono. Also without any support.

* I'm sure you don't drive the backroads with a pad and paper recording
calls, city of license, and whether the pilot is lit. Neither do I. On a
road trip, I may hear 15 radio stations a day. I don't record the calls.
And they may be 40 miles from where I'm rolling at the time. The only
reason I noticed the stations I noticed is because the pilot wasn't lit.

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~ RHF wrote:

Reality Check on the Real World of Commercial Radio :
The FCC's Public Duty {Obligation} is to Manage the
Public Air-Waves to 'enable' Local Advertising {Business
-aka- Tax Revenue} in the Local Media Market Area :
Creating the Added Benefit of providing News, Information
and Entertainment to the Local Community.
-translation- Advertising Pays the Way to provide
the Public Benefit of Free Over-the-Air Radio.
-ps- The FCC Knows That as every US Congressperson
reminds them of Promoting Business in their Districts.

You can't do real news without stepping on sponsors' feet sometimes. A
so-called All News station that relies on advertising is a fraud. They
just advance the corporate goals and **** everyone else.

Broadcast licenses are issued in the public interest, convenience and
necessity.

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~ RHF wrote:

Use #1 to Get More of #2
that's better business ~ RHF
.

There's an overabundance of #2 on the airwaves today.

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On Oct 13, 10:33*pm, "Watchin & Waitin'" wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message

...





"D. Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 13:52 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter *wrote in message
...
On 10/13/09 12:47 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter * wrote in message
...
On 10/12/09 14:59 , Jo Jo Gunn wrote:
"D. Peter * *wrote in message
...

Stereo destroys FM coverage. *Those engineers were right.

And those that were purists and held to that belief....are all out
of
business.

* * *Not so much. I encounter one or two non-stereo stations every
week
when
I'm on the road.

Please name them and their location.

* * I hear them when I'm on the road. I don't have time to catalog
them.

* * The last two I heard this past week were in southeastern Missouri
and
southern Illinois.

I don't know Peter...it sounds more anecdotal than anything....

* *No different than your assertion, my man.

You made a generalization about how many stations are still in mono....I
asked you to back up that statement...and you couldn't.

* Just as you made a generalization about how many stations weren't in
mono. Also without any support.

* I'm sure you don't drive the backroads with a pad and paper recording
calls, city of license, and whether the pilot is lit. Neither do I. On a
road trip, I may hear 15 radio stations a day. I don't record the calls.
And they may be 40 miles from where I'm rolling at the time. The only
reason I noticed the stations I noticed is because the pilot wasn't lit.

HD Radio - Trend to watch: Team-branded HD2s !!
 

On Oct 14, 6:44*am, dave wrote:
~ RHF wrote:

Reality Check on the Real World of Commercial Radio :
The FCC's Public Duty {Obligation} is to Manage the
Public Air-Waves to 'enable' Local Advertising {Business
-aka- Tax Revenue} in the Local Media Market Area :
Creating the Added Benefit of providing News, Information
and Entertainment to the Local Community.
-translation- Advertising Pays the Way to provide
the Public Benefit of Free Over-the-Air Radio.
-ps- The FCC Knows That as every US Congressperson
reminds them of Promoting Business in their Districts.

You can't do real news without stepping on sponsors' feet sometimes. *A
so-called All News station that relies on advertising is a fraud. *They
just advance the corporate goals and **** everyone else.

- Broadcast licenses are issued in the public interest,
- convenience and necessity.

Dave the FCC and your 'local' US Congressperson
define "The Public Interest" as a Strong Local
Economy aided by a Local Media Market with a
diversity of Advertisers resulting in Enhanced Tax
Revenues to all levels of Government.

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Jo Jo Gunn wrote:

Yes, and WLW isn't 500KW's anymore. Life goes on. ANd the clear-channels
don't have the entire frequency to themselves nationwide anymore.

Duh. I'm talking about something much stronger, more local, and more
reliable than skywave.

The answer is that with DX-ing, since the broadcasters don't care about it,
and the FCC doesn't care about it...it's table scraps.

What does DXing have to do with the design of an HD receiver? Please
re-read the post that you responded to.

I have another example too - the 98.9 and 99.1 pair here in the Bay
Area. Each one interferes with the other, and by your definition I live
in the "fringe" area of one, and barely within the coverage area of
another. Both run HD, neither one locks reliably, and neither one
provides static-free reception driving around. In the pre-HD days both
of them provided perfect reception. This is a bit unique, because these
two are simulcasted. They're killing themselves. But I strongly
suspect that the coverage map being used by the salespeople at KSOL/KSQL
doesn't exclude the zone of poor reception in between the 2
transmitters. They do quite well in the ratings, but I bet some
non-technical beancounter is wondering why their shares in Fremont and
Mountain View are so low.

I can appreciate the fact that people have poured lots of money into HD
radio and they're desperate to protect their investment, hence all of
the upstart attempts to convince the public to make the switch - like
"team branded HD2's". But I still can't see how it'll take off with
limited programming, compromised audio quality, and a myriad of
competing program delivery systems, all of which are much less costly
and far superior. It just doesn't make sense. The public today is
pretty well educated, and even my friends who are gadget freaks and
"first adopters" are not interested in HD Radio. Meanwhile, the noise
in the existing radio bands drives listeners like me - people who really
enjoy radio - to the web. I'm just hopeful this whole thing shakes out
soon.

Dave B.