wrote:
Say there Krypsis, you live in Australia? Do you know Mr.Rogers? He is a

Can't say as I do. Name doesn't ring a bell with me. I was into rodding
more than restoring. I left the others to be fussy about nit picking
restorations. Only jeep restorer I know was a fellow in a small
Tasmanian town. He had a very nice one but, like so many of the people I
knew from the old days, he passed away years back. Same chap had an MG
as well. I recall how he was hunting a matching front wing as his had
two different headlight cowlings from different models, one horizontal,
the other with a droop. Used to irritate him no end. This was before the
days of eBay and easy communications. He'd be rapt now at the ease of
finding bits anywhere in the world through the internet.

perfectionist at restoring World War Two Jeeps and such vehicles.
www.jeepdraw.com
cuhulin

When I was into rodding, I was the younger one in my circle of friends.
Sadly, most of the old crew are gone now. Robert, who died last Sunday,
being one of the last. He was an unconventional character and his
restorations were unconventional to say the least. The nit pickers would
have a field day. Saw a couple of the remaining old timers at his
funeral, the years have weighed heavily on them. Suppose they might have
been saying the same thing about me! ;-)

One of them still gets about on his old Harley, nice machine!

Krypsis

Krypsis wrote:
Bill Baka wrote:
snip

Sounds like overkill to me. Why push more iron than necessary?
Anyway, fuel injection and electronic/computer controlled ignition is
the only way manufacturers could meet the emission standards. The
carburettor is dead.

My old iron is mostly for freeway use and floats at 100 MPH. I had a

My "young iron" is also for freeway use and I don't need to do 100mph,
not to mention that such speeds are illegal here. On the other hand, my
car is quite capable of maintaining the 100 - 110 freeway maximums here
so I am nonplussed.

It will cruise over 130 but I am not into explaining that to a judge.
It just happens to do it with ease and not 7,000 RPM out of an
overstressed 4 banger.

1988 Mustang GT 5.0 that got bouncy over 100. I could care less about
emissions standards since there are so few vintage cars left.

It's not too difficult to bring older vintage cars up to reasonable
emission standards but then the analists will question their "authenticity.
"
snip


Sounds to me like you're so in love with old oversized American iron
that you can't see beyond it. Have a look at the rest of the world
where fuel is hellishly expensive so performance, efficiency AND
fuel economy go hand in hand. Let me guess, you love valve radios and
don't have a single tranny version in the house, right?

Grow a brain before you try to insult my logic. High RPM is the
biggest waste of fuel, 4 cylinders or 8, 10, 12. Learn some basic math
and see

Engine efficiency depends a lot on volumetric efficiency and the maximum
volumetric efficiency can occur at either high or low rpm depending on
engine design. My own car has the best efficiency around the 4,000 RPM
mark. Above 5,000 and below 3,000, it drops off dramatically. No point
sticking it in a tall geared overdrive and chugging around at 2,500 RPM
as I won't get the best economy.

You still don't get it. I was talking about where is the most efficient
point to make a car move at 65 MPH continuous. More RPM's don't make
efficiency for fuel consumption, and that, dear boy, is *exponential*
in the loss department.

why you down-shift for engine braking coming down a hill.

If you use engine braking, you may as well do it in a fuel-cut
situation. In fact it's already programmed into most modern vehicles.
Nearly all modern fuel injected cars turn off virtually all fuel when
you're not requesting torque via the accelerator pedal. Injection will
be cut when the accelerator is released and engine RPM is above
approximately 1500.

Watch the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xfxSkDHJKo

I don't need to watch a video on cars.
The fuel cut is mainly so the muffler does not explode when ignition
begins again. I ran a Texaco service center back when there were
Texaco's. Engine breaking only works due to the losses in the pistons.
Big trucks have an exhaust brake to boot.

snip


Yes, up until about 40 years ago. Not done much since.

It is very painfully obvious.

I *never* said the imported crap had a chance against a properly set
up V8. It is gearing and the manufacturers have either been too
stupid or

Power to weight ratio is a critical factor.

You have been reading too much Hot Rod.

Not picked up a hot rod mag in decades.

Well then, pick up some engineering magazines and start reading because
the hot rod magazines only showed the power curve down to maybe 2,000
RPM. These days I am more interested in what they can do at low RPM, and
the accompanying mileage.

Power/weight is only for quarter
miles and stop light drags, neither of which is a limiting factor.

Please explain to me then why there is a push to use lightweight
materials in cars if the weight isn't a factor. Seems you have been
letting your basic physics slip a tad! The laws of physics say that if
you have twice the mass, it will take twice the energy/effort to
accelerate said mass to a given speed. That applies whether you are drag
racing or simply getting up to speed on a freeway.

Don't even think of trying to make me sound stupid. I was talking
freeway miles, not around town. It would be a small matter to install a
stop and go traffic battery/motor-brake with out taking over the whole
car. I have been in Silicon Valley traffic jams and drive 20 feet then
stop for five minutes, repeat until done, can ruin any running gas
engine's fuel efficiency.

It takes so much to push a
ton a mile and you can't get an improvement on that without applying
efficiencies and minimising losses/wastage.

I can, so why can't you realize it????? My 160 MPH Mustang got 33 MPG
in fifth (overdrive in a Tremec). It would also spin me around if I
was rolling in first and stepped on the gas too hard.

That is around 7 litres per hundred kilometres, definitely in the medium
sized 4 cylinder engine, fuel injected, electronic ignition and
definitely not old world carb and mechanical breakers. I can get that
sort of mileage all the time in city cycle, better in highway cycle. I
am more than a little skeptical that you can achieve that sort of
mileage in any form of real world driving, especially in a piece of old
world American iron. Just so you know, we did have, in my younger days,
a heavy representation of American cars on our roads so I am not
unfamiliar with them - and their fuel consumption.

Engineering for Dummies 101.
Most of the energy is wasted on making the pistons go up and down.
A V-8 can be geared to get over 30 MPG as long as the driver is aware
that any lead-footing will cost him at the pump.

Don't you find it a little strange that American brands are absent in
F1 racing? They do use V8 engines albeit limited to a maximum engine
capacity of 2.4 litres (146 Cu Inch). Now those fellows really have
to work on engine efficiency. Fuel efficiency never used to be
factored into the equation but I think that has changed in recent years.

Those are not streetable engines and you know it. 12,000 RPM is great
for racing but sucks on the street.

Nobody said they were but they certainly do pump out the neddies, don't
they. Notice how the torque figures are extremely

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_engines

Have a look at the above link and tell me those engines aren't
efficient. Look at the BHP/Torque figures as well.

They are not efficient for the street and they would not be usable
below about 6,000 RPM. Ever hear of 'Peaky'? They are tuned for one
thing only.

They are incredibly efficient in terms of power output per given litre
of engine capacity. They are not designed with fuel efficiency in mind
though the developments in racing do tend to filter down to the average
motorists cars in time.

the American public does not want to have to shift and think while
talking on the cell.

Agreed .. but not for the same reason(s)

Bill Baka

Piston speed is THE defining factor in all of the above. Higher RPM
equals more power strokes in a given time frame. Long stroke
engines have a piston speed that is far too high when wound up
around 7k RPM. Remember, that piston is reciprocating, not just
going in the one direction. Usually this results in catastrophic
engine failure when piston speed exceeds sensible limits. Cut down
the stroke and you keep the piston speed reasonable at the expense
of torque. Appropriate gearing and more gear ratios compensates for
the lack of torque.

I am leaning to 6 speeds like in the performance cars. A Tremec 6 speed

Performance cars typically have narrow power bands. You NEED the
extra ratios so you can keep the engine in the power band.

with a 3.35 first and 0.70 and 0.50 are perfect overdrives for the
road.
RPM is what sucks up mileage.

Efficiency is what saves fuel. That applies to engine design,
aerodynamics, vehicle mass, the whole gamut.
Used to run stock cars once. Couldn't do much about the aerodynamics
but did we ever shave the weight off them!

You just don't understand, do you? Revs don't get it!!!!!!

You are just too old world. Think computers and fuel injection, I do.

Go back to high school or Freshman college math and have your instructor
teach you something. Physics is not old world but you appear to be
unteachable.

My
current daily drive is a five speed and its fifth gear is NOT an
overdrive. It's high revving 1800 cc 4 banger that pumps out 100KW
and it's as stock as the day it came out of the factory. The sports
models get 50% better power and still remain street drivable.

Having read that I don't know if I can have an intelligent car talk.

You can but you need an intelligent approach to it first.

Radios yes, cars no. I can't educate you on this group.

You "shouldn't" be trying to car educate me on this group.

No,
You seem too educated(?), err, opinionated for reason.

Opinionated eh?

These days I select my cars on suitability to task rather than ego
pandering. Same as I do when selecting a radio. I look at what I want
to do, work out a spec list, look for suitable candidates, then
compare to see which fulfills my needs best. Garage space is an issue
for me these days.

For the kind of driving we do nowadays, a four cylinder is more than
adequate. Anything larger is overkill. That said, I have a couple of
larger beasts in the garage. They haven't seen service for quite a
while now. Just keep them for old times sake and dust 'em off now and
then. I am more interested in radios now.

Should I need a larger car for any reason, I will rent one, or
perhaps borrow one from my children as they are still in the ego
stroking stage!

WTF???? I drive mine to show it off on the rare occasion I want to, and

Mine are simply too valuable to risk on the road. I've had them for over
40 years, put a lot of time and effort into them and don't want to throw
it all away with all the clowns that consider themselves drivers that
currently infest our roads. Besides, they attract a bit too much
unwanted attention these days as well. Very few people know they exist
and I intend to keep them that way.

A friend recently had his rather special Ford GTHO stolen from his
garage. Owned it from new but some other swine is enjoying it now. Told
him to keep it low key but he didn't listen.

if something really heavy needs hauling, a 440 will damn sure do it.

If I need some heavy hauling, a friend has a truck!

My 2 runarounds are newer front wheel drive clones.

I rest my case!


Sure isn't like my younger days when we were into street rods that
were barely street drivable. Sounded good though! ;-)

And gas was 21 *CENTS* a gallon.

My 1952 Buick got maybe 6 or 7 miles per gallon with the DynaSlow
transmission but it just kept on running.

Know them well. A friend of mine was a buick aficionado and had 2 or 3
of them, one of which was a Roadmaster Riviera hardtop. He died back in
1970 (trees and cars don't mix!) and his son inherited the cars. I
haven't seen the son Peter since 1980 so I don't know if he still has
them. His father ran a bus company and I last remember the cars
gathering dust at the back of the bus shed. Must look him up and check
on that.

And that is exactly why efficiency wasn't a criteria in those days.

Left all that behind in the 70's and got into shortwave for the
first time. This was mainly because I was in and out of the country
so much in that era that I didn't have time for cars any more.

I believe.
Those are the kind of jobs I don't like though. I want an office to
call home and a fully expense paid flight, and not in 'sardine can'
land.

I didn't have a choice. I started in the job when I was 15 and
retired a year or so back when I was 70. I always had full expenses
paid flights, limo supplied to get to and from airports and five star
accommodation. My only hassle was that the trips, and they were
frequent, were never planned in advance, always short notice (ie. be
at the airport in 3 hours) and they played merry hell with my social
life. Had to give up racing and the rods. It's also why I got started
in radio. It was easy to cart a small radio around interstate and
overseas, a truly portable hobby. Still got my Sony ICF SW7600 but
you wouldn't like it because it is (a) small and (b) has no valves,
not to mention (c) made in Japan.

Krypsis

I don't know what you worked at but it seems to have kept you very
busy for 55 years.

I worked for the Australian Federal Government, spent of lot of time in
the immigration department. It kept me extremely busy from 73 on.

A Sony ICF would be fine with me, and actually made in Japan is
becoming a treasure find these days of China-land.
I personally worked for a lot of start-ups and know what it is like to

Never spent any time in private enterprise.

own 10,000 shares of wallpaper.
Bill Baka

Never had any interest in shares. A friend of mine finally convinced me
to play the stock market and was giving me very good advice based on his
very successful experience. Went to his funeral last Wednesday.
Diagnosed with cancer on the Tuesday, gone by 6pm Sunday. He was a year
younger than me, just turned 70 this month.
Now this chap could machine up just about any part you wanted for your
rod or restoration. Went up to see his wife and help her out on Monday
and Tuesday evenings. Had a look through his workshop where he had been
restoring a 22 and a 26 Buick. He'd been casting up some bits ready to
machine up and use on the Buicks. Don't know what will happen to those
cars now. Sad loss for the rod and restoration community here.

Krypsis

Bill Baka wrote:
Krypsis wrote:

Never had any interest in shares. A friend of mine finally convinced
me to play the stock market and was giving me very good advice based
on his very successful experience. Went to his funeral last Wednesday.
Diagnosed with cancer on the Tuesday, gone by 6pm Sunday. He was a
year younger than me, just turned 70 this month.
Now this chap could machine up just about any part you wanted for your
rod or restoration. Went up to see his wife and help her out on Monday
and Tuesday evenings. Had a look through his workshop where he had
been restoring a 22 and a 26 Buick. He'd been casting up some bits
ready to machine up and use on the Buicks. Don't know what will happen
to those cars now. Sad loss for the rod and restoration community here.

Krypsis

Yeah,
Shares aren't worth much when the whole company goes down.
I hate to lose a young guy at only 70.
His wife or kids might just try to auction off the cars.
Nobody under 40 seems to give a crap about cars anymore.
He will be missed whether I knew him or not.

Bill Baka

Bill Baka wrote:
Bill Baka wrote:
Krypsis wrote:

Never had any interest in shares. A friend of mine finally convinced
me to play the stock market and was giving me very good advice based
on his very successful experience. Went to his funeral last
Wednesday. Diagnosed with cancer on the Tuesday, gone by 6pm Sunday.
He was a year younger than me, just turned 70 this month.
Now this chap could machine up just about any part you wanted for
your rod or restoration. Went up to see his wife and help her out on
Monday and Tuesday evenings. Had a look through his workshop where he
had been restoring a 22 and a 26 Buick. He'd been casting up some
bits ready to machine up and use on the Buicks. Don't know what will
happen to those cars now. Sad loss for the rod and restoration
community here.

Krypsis

Yeah,
Shares aren't worth much when the whole company goes down.

His shares have a long term history of stability and regular dividends
which was his goal, income, not growth.

I hate to lose a young guy at only 70.

Yeah, especially when he was "younger" than me. Funny thing was, his
family has a history of longevity. Practically the only one who died
under 90 was his father and his death was due to workplace injury. In
fact, when they were looking for relatives to inform after his death,
they found 2 aunts and an uncle still living. All of them would have to
be well in their nineties by now.

His wife or kids might just try to auction off the cars.

He didn't have any kids and his wife is at a loss right now just what to
do. Money isn't a problem for her in the short and long term as share
dividends will see to that. More of an issue is her remote location and
inability to drive a car. Her home is in the hills outside the urban
limits with limited public transport options.
Anyway, the cars are all in bits. There was only one person who knew how
they all went together and he's gone. It would take weeks to just find
everything. In my brief visit to the workshop, I saw bits scattered all
over. Interestingly, he had been working on converting the engine
bearings to full pressure fed lubrication. He'd drilled the crank and
was in the process of building a larger oil pump to supply the extra
requirements. He even had a new sump and pan cast to provide the extra
room for the pump. He had been talking about doing this but I hadn't
realised he was as far along as he was. I did say his restorations were
"unconventional", didn't I?

Nobody under 40 seems to give a crap about cars anymore.

Yep. I don't know what will happen to my garage full of rods when I drop
off the perch. None of my kids are mechanically inclined, the grandkids
are more interested in partying and hooning. Guess the great grandkids
are my only hope. Would hate to see the rods get sold off. Don't want to
risk using them, don't want to risk losing them. What a conundrum!

He will be missed whether I knew him or not.

Bill Baka

Sure will be missed around here. Used to have long phone calls about his
projects. Sometimes an hour, sometimes 2 but always interesting. Miss
them already.

Krypsis

Varooooooommmmmm,,,,,, my Maserati does one eighty fivvvve,,,, I lost my
license now I do not drivvvve,,,,,,,

That is a real actual song, I have heard it before on my radio.I do not
own a Maserati, but I believe they are Good cars.Italy makes a lot of
nice thingys,,, especially those Italian wimmins!
cuhulin

Krypsis wrote:
Bill Baka wrote:
Bill Baka wrote:
Krypsis wrote:

Never had any interest in shares. A friend of mine finally convinced
me to play the stock market and was giving me very good advice based
on his very successful experience. Went to his funeral last
Wednesday. Diagnosed with cancer on the Tuesday, gone by 6pm Sunday.
He was a year younger than me, just turned 70 this month.
Now this chap could machine up just about any part you wanted for
your rod or restoration. Went up to see his wife and help her out on
Monday and Tuesday evenings. Had a look through his workshop where
he had been restoring a 22 and a 26 Buick. He'd been casting up some
bits ready to machine up and use on the Buicks. Don't know what will
happen to those cars now. Sad loss for the rod and restoration
community here.

Krypsis

Yeah,
Shares aren't worth much when the whole company goes down.

His shares have a long term history of stability and regular dividends
which was his goal, income, not growth.

Can't be an American company then.

I hate to lose a young guy at only 70.

Yeah, especially when he was "younger" than me. Funny thing was, his
family has a history of longevity. Practically the only one who died
under 90 was his father and his death was due to workplace injury. In
fact, when they were looking for relatives to inform after his death,
they found 2 aunts and an uncle still living. All of them would have to
be well in their nineties by now.

Same here except my dad drank and smoked himself into a stroke at 83.

His wife or kids might just try to auction off the cars.

He didn't have any kids and his wife is at a loss right now just what to
do. Money isn't a problem for her in the short and long term as share
dividends will see to that. More of an issue is her remote location and
inability to drive a car. Her home is in the hills outside the urban
limits with limited public transport options.

She can't drive? What is up with that? Sounds like a 1920's kind of problem.

Anyway, the cars are all in bits. There was only one person who knew how
they all went together and he's gone. It would take weeks to just find
everything. In my brief visit to the workshop, I saw bits scattered all
over. Interestingly, he had been working on converting the engine
bearings to full pressure fed lubrication. He'd drilled the crank and
was in the process of building a larger oil pump to supply the extra
requirements. He even had a new sump and pan cast to provide the extra
room for the pump. He had been talking about doing this but I hadn't
realised he was as far along as he was. I did say his restorations were
"unconventional", didn't I?

In other words, you or I or any car nut would be in heaven just trying
to find parts to match to the cars. Found a manifold, must be for that
one, radiator must go there, etc. Then the cars would get worked on as I
found the parts.
Damn, am I dreaming.

Nobody under 40 seems to give a crap about cars anymore.

Yep. I don't know what will happen to my garage full of rods when I drop
off the perch. None of my kids are mechanically inclined, the grandkids
are more interested in partying and hooning.

Damn. I wasn't even allowed to drive my first car (with a legal permit)
until I could convince my dad I could change a tire, diagnose a no spark
or bad fuel pump, and fill every last one of my fluids. Only then did I
get to go anywhere. My daughter, BTW, could care less about anything
mechanical, so I don't know who to give the car too. Maybe I'll be
buried in it like that rich woman was in her Ferrari. I have one
grandson who might want it, I hope.

Guess the great grandkids
are my only hope. Would hate to see the rods get sold off. Don't want to
risk using them, don't want to risk losing them. What a conundrum!

I have that too. I am still looking for a 1962 to 1964 Ford Falcon to
mileage up.

He will be missed whether I knew him or not.

Bill Baka

Sure will be missed around here. Used to have long phone calls about his
projects. Sometimes an hour, sometimes 2 but always interesting. Miss
them already.

Krypsis

I guess I'm getting to where friends will start going. Lost 3 in three
years.
Sigh
Bill Baka

Ford Falcon, Good cars.Back in the 1970s, one of the vehicles I owned
was a 1962 Ford Falcon 4 door car.It had a 6 cylinder engine and manual
shift transmission.I traded it to my old buddy for his 1950 Ford car,
six cylinder engine, manual shift transmission with overdrive.He had
bought the 1950 Ford car for a second car when he and I went to Hinds
Community College on the G.I.Bill, Winter time of 1972 - 1973.
cuhulin

wrote:
Ford Falcon, Good cars.Back in the 1970s, one of the vehicles I owned
was a 1962 Ford Falcon 4 door car.It had a 6 cylinder engine and manual
shift transmission.I traded it to my old buddy for his 1950 Ford car,
six cylinder engine, manual shift transmission with overdrive.He had
bought the 1950 Ford car for a second car when he and I went to Hinds
Community College on the G.I.Bill, Winter time of 1972 - 1973.
cuhulin

Falcons were everywhere back then and I am surprised the Falcon didn't
come back with the oil emblem around 1973-1974 when the oil **** first
hit the fan. Fairlanes were good too.
The good old days
Bill Baka

I like the 1957 Fords, I once owned a 1957 Ford Thunderbird.I traded a
1968 Ford Mustang for the Thunderbird in Lawrenceville,Georgia.I have
owned a 1964 Ford Mustang car before, also a 1931 Ford four door Model A
car I bought from a guy in Liberal,Kansas back in the 1970s.I have owned
a 1939 Ford fastback car and a 1948 Chevrolet pickup truck too.I traded
that pickup truck to an old buddy for some collectible folding money and
some collectible silver coins.I still have that money here, in my box at
the bank.I have owned a lot of vehicles over the past years.
cuhulin

wrote:
I like the 1957 Fords, I once owned a 1957 Ford Thunderbird.

1957 saw Ford make some mistakes, for sure. The Skyliner was a bomb at
the dealers due to the 30 + motors involved. I liked the styling and the
1957 T-bird, the last before it got bloated.
I traded a
1968 Ford Mustang for the Thunderbird in Lawrenceville,Georgia.I have
owned a 1964 Ford Mustang car before, also a 1931 Ford four door Model A
car I bought from a guy in Liberal,Kansas back in the 1970s.I have owned
a 1939 Ford fastback car and a 1948 Chevrolet pickup truck too.I traded
that pickup truck to an old buddy for some collectible folding money and
some collectible silver coins.I still have that money here, in my box at
the bank.I have owned a lot of vehicles over the past years.
cuhulin

I have you beat by about 4 or 5 times as many cars over the years.
My favorite for quiet running was a 1948 Studebaker at 65 in overdrive.
Flat head again so no notice able engine noise.
I miss Detroit iron.

Bill Baka