On 9/22/2010 4:39 PM, bpnjensen wrote:
On Sep 22, 3:45 pm, "Chas. wrote:
Average citizens cannot be trusted with economic decisions that
require balancing immediate costs and long-term benefits, according to
environmentalists.

[...]

•CFL manufacturers claim that a 13-watt CFL emits the same amount of
light as a 60-watt incandescent, but it doesn't seem to work that way
in the real world. I've been in CFL-lit hotel rooms where I need a
flashlight to read my dog-eared copy of The Road to Serfdom.

•Warm-up time: it takes up to 5 minutes for a CFL to reach full
strength, which may be related to the point above (why CFLs seem less
bright). My friend has installed them in a hallway where illumination
is needed only for the thirty seconds it takes to navigate the
staircase. Not ideal when Grandma visits and can't see the skateboard
on the stairs.

•Few CFLs last for their advertised lifetimes of five years or more.
Many people report replacing them after one year, making those return
on investment numbers a bit less rosy. Using them in ceiling fixtures,
on dimmers or timers, and for less than fifteen minutes per use reduce
their life.

•CFLs contain mercury and should be returned to a hazardous waste
center for disposal. Studies assume a 25% recycling rate, with the
rest going into landfills. (The Westinghouse website recommends
recycling only when disposing of "a large quantity" of fluorescent
tubes and doesn't mention how to dispose of their CFLs.) According to
a 2008 Yale study, burning coal to supply electricity to incandescent
bulbs emits more mercury per bulb than a CFL contains, but regions
that rely on cleaner fuels like natural gas experience greater mercury
contamination with the introduction of CFLs. Why would
environmentalists advocate to bring a toxic product into every home?

•Cleaning up a broken CFL doesn't require a haz-mat team, but you have
to take significant precautions to avoid mercury contamination of
living areas.

•Manufacturing CFLs is labor-intensive. No CFLs are made with
expensive U.S. labor; most are made in China, where hundreds of
factory workers in CFL plants have been hospitalized for mercury
poisoning. The last major light bulb factory in the U.S., a GE plant
in Winchester, VA, closed earlier this month.

•CFLs require six times as much energy to manufacture as incandescent
bulbs, not to mention -- if you're concerned about such things -- the
carbon footprint of shipping them from China.

•CFLs appear to cause migraines and epileptic seizures in a small
number of people. Other health risks are being studied.

•CFLs work poorly in cold temperatures -- as a wintertime front porch
light, for example. In cold climates, the heat of incandescent bulbs
is a useful -- if inefficient -- byproduct.

•CFLs degrade the quality of the electric current (so-called "dirty
electricity" with uneven sine waves) on a circuit into which they are
plugged, causing problems for other electronic devices and possible
health hazards to humans.

[...]

(complete story with references)http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/...ent_light_bulb...

Not my experience.

Whole family uses CFLs, most friends do to ... none of this seems more
than BS ...

Regards,
JS

On Sep 22, 10:00*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 9/22/2010 4:39 PM, bpnjensen wrote:



On Sep 22, 3:45 pm, "Chas. *wrote:
Average citizens cannot be trusted with economic decisions that
require balancing immediate costs and long-term benefits, according to
environmentalists.

[...]

•CFL manufacturers claim that a 13-watt CFL emits the same amount of
light as a 60-watt incandescent, but it doesn't seem to work that way
in the real world. I've been in CFL-lit hotel rooms where I need a
flashlight to read my dog-eared copy of The Road to Serfdom.

•Warm-up time: it takes up to 5 minutes for a CFL to reach full
strength, which may be related to the point above (why CFLs seem less
bright). My friend has installed them in a hallway where illumination
is needed only for the thirty seconds it takes to navigate the
staircase. Not ideal when Grandma visits and can't see the skateboard
on the stairs.

•Few CFLs last for their advertised lifetimes of five years or more.
Many people report replacing them after one year, making those return
on investment numbers a bit less rosy. Using them in ceiling fixtures,
on dimmers or timers, and for less than fifteen minutes per use reduce
their life.

•CFLs contain mercury and should be returned to a hazardous waste
center for disposal. Studies assume a 25% recycling rate, with the
rest going into landfills. (The Westinghouse website recommends
recycling only when disposing of "a large quantity" of fluorescent
tubes and doesn't mention how to dispose of their CFLs.) According to
a 2008 Yale study, burning coal to supply electricity to incandescent
bulbs emits more mercury per bulb than a CFL contains, but regions
that rely on cleaner fuels like natural gas experience greater mercury
contamination with the introduction of CFLs. Why would
environmentalists advocate to bring a toxic product into every home?

•Cleaning up a broken CFL doesn't require a haz-mat team, but you have
to take significant precautions to avoid mercury contamination of
living areas.

•Manufacturing CFLs is labor-intensive. No CFLs are made with
expensive U.S. labor; most are made in China, where hundreds of
factory workers in CFL plants have been hospitalized for mercury
poisoning. The last major light bulb factory in the U.S., a GE plant
in Winchester, VA, closed earlier this month.

•CFLs require six times as much energy to manufacture as incandescent
bulbs, not to mention -- if you're concerned about such things -- the
carbon footprint of shipping them from China.

•CFLs appear to cause migraines and epileptic seizures in a small
number of people. Other health risks are being studied.

•CFLs work poorly in cold temperatures -- as a wintertime front porch
light, for example. In cold climates, the heat of incandescent bulbs
is a useful -- if inefficient -- byproduct.

•CFLs degrade the quality of the electric current (so-called "dirty
electricity" with uneven sine waves) on a circuit into which they are
plugged, causing problems for other electronic devices and possible
health hazards to humans.

[...]

(complete story with references)http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/...ent_light_bulb...

Not my experience.

Whole family uses CFLs, most friends do to ... none of this seems more
than BS ...

Regards,
JS

JS you got any family with the initials "BS" ? ;;-}}

On 9/23/2010 2:30 AM, RHF wrote:

...
JS you got any family with the initials "BS" ? ;;-}}

I live in California, it is always warm enough for lightbulbs to work.
grin

Regards,
JS

In 1966, the temperature in Corinth,Mississippi got down to nineteen
degrees below zero.I bet those Incandescent Light Bulbs felt good for
hand warmers.
cuhulin

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 9/23/2010 2:30 AM, RHF wrote:

...
JS you got any family with the initials "BS" ? ;;-}}

I live in California, it is always warm enough for lightbulbs to work.
grin

Regards,
JS
..
..
The yellowish-orange light that incandescent lamps give off is similar to
the color of the light candles emit.

There's no reason that we should stick to that puny sickly color.

CFL lamps can do a good job of emulating daylight.

Regarding energy. When I had incandescent lamps in our high hats I could
warm the room by simply turning the lights on.

This was an indicator of how much extra energy (and money) I needed to waste
during air-conditioning season.

No more. I had these for years. I would never go back.

On 9/23/2010 7:37 AM, Sid9 wrote:

...
.
The yellowish-orange light that incandescent lamps give off is similar
to the color of the light candles emit.

There's no reason that we should stick to that puny sickly color.

CFL lamps can do a good job of emulating daylight.

Regarding energy. When I had incandescent lamps in our high hats I could
warm the room by simply turning the lights on.

This was an indicator of how much extra energy (and money) I needed to
waste during air-conditioning season.

No more. I had these for years. I would never go back.



You want "Daylight" bulbs, 6500K ... revel are better than most CFLs,
but still lack the brightness and whiteness of Daylight ... normal "warm
white" or "cool white" are little better than incandescent ...

Regards,
JS

On 9/23/2010 10:37 AM, Sid9 wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 9/23/2010 2:30 AM, RHF wrote:

...
JS you got any family with the initials "BS" ? ;;-}}

I live in California, it is always warm enough for lightbulbs to work.
grin

Regards,
JS
.
.
The yellowish-orange light that incandescent lamps give off is similar
to the color of the light candles emit.

There's no reason that we should stick to that puny sickly color.

CFL lamps can do a good job of emulating daylight.


Choice is a nice thing.....


Regarding energy. When I had incandescent lamps in our high hats I could
warm the room by simply turning the lights on.

This was an indicator of how much extra energy (and money) I needed to
waste during air-conditioning season.

No more. I had these for years. I would never go back.

On Sep 23, 9:24*am, John Smith wrote:
On 9/23/2010 2:30 AM, RHF wrote:

...
JS you got any family with the initials "BS" ? ;;-}}

I live in California, it is always warm enough for lightbulbs to work.
grin

Regards,
JS

I use a combination of old fashioned and new fashioned CFLs.

As already mentioned, it makes no sense to use CFLs in a hallway or
stairway where the light is only on for less than a minute.

It also makes no sense to use CFLs in decorative bathroom lights or
ANY light where the fixture points down like an upside down tulip or a
ceiling canister light. The upside down tulip or canister builds up
heat which will kill a capacitor in the CFL.

I also discovered a very interesting problem with CFLs and pets. The
old fashioned fluorescent bulbs use a magnetic ballast that operates
at 60hz and the flicker would drive some people crazy. The new CFLs
operate at 20,000 hz and this " drive em crazy" problem has gone away.
HOWEVER, the 20,000hz of the CFLs emit a 20,000hz sound that dogs and
cats can hear and it drives THEM crazy.

In an experiment, a CFL was put in a single room where a dog would
frequently lay. When the CFL was installed, the dog wouldn't go in
that particular room any more.

Jane.

http://www.science20.com/science_amp...ur_pets_insane

On Sep 23, 10:55*am, jane wrote:
On Sep 23, 9:24*am, John Smith wrote:

On 9/23/2010 2:30 AM, RHF wrote:

...
JS you got any family with the initials "BS" ? ;;-}}

I live in California, it is always warm enough for lightbulbs to work.
grin

Regards,
JS

I use a combination of old fashioned and new fashioned CFLs.

As already mentioned, it makes no sense to use CFLs in a hallway or
stairway where the light is only on for less than a minute.

It also makes no sense to use CFLs in decorative bathroom lights or
ANY light where the fixture points down like an upside down tulip or a
ceiling canister light. *The upside down tulip or canister builds up
heat which will kill a capacitor in the CFL.

I also discovered a very interesting problem with CFLs and pets. *The
old fashioned fluorescent bulbs use a magnetic ballast that operates
at 60hz and the flicker would drive some people crazy. *The new CFLs
operate at 20,000 hz and this " drive em crazy" problem has gone away.
HOWEVER, the 20,000hz of the CFLs emit a 20,000hz sound that dogs and
cats can hear and it drives THEM crazy.

In an experiment, a CFL was put in a single room where a dog would
frequently lay. *When the CFL was installed, the dog wouldn't go in
that particular room any more.

Jane.

http://www.science20.com/science_amp...lbs_save_plane...

My cats seem to have no response to our CFLs.

On Sep 23, 1:00*pm, bpnjensen wrote:
On Sep 23, 10:55*am, jane wrote:





On Sep 23, 9:24*am, John Smith wrote:

On 9/23/2010 2:30 AM, RHF wrote:

...
JS you got any family with the initials "BS" ? ;;-}}

I live in California, it is always warm enough for lightbulbs to work..
grin

Regards,
JS

I use a combination of old fashioned and new fashioned CFLs.

As already mentioned, it makes no sense to use CFLs in a hallway or
stairway where the light is only on for less than a minute.

It also makes no sense to use CFLs in decorative bathroom lights or
ANY light where the fixture points down like an upside down tulip or a
ceiling canister light. *The upside down tulip or canister builds up
heat which will kill a capacitor in the CFL.

I also discovered a very interesting problem with CFLs and pets. *The
old fashioned fluorescent bulbs use a magnetic ballast that operates
at 60hz and the flicker would drive some people crazy. *The new CFLs
operate at 20,000 hz and this " drive em crazy" problem has gone away.
HOWEVER, the 20,000hz of the CFLs emit a 20,000hz sound that dogs and
cats can hear and it drives THEM crazy.

In an experiment, a CFL was put in a single room where a dog would
frequently lay. *When the CFL was installed, the dog wouldn't go in
that particular room any more.

Jane.

http://www.science20.com/science_amp...lbs_save_plane...

My cats seem to have no response to our CFLs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


How do you know?

Try the experiment where you use incadescent bulbs in all of your
rooms and put a CFL in his/her favorite sleeping place.