On 12/18/2011 10:29 PM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

...
The next time a candidate for President says that if he is elected he
will bankrupt the coal industry, pay attention before you vote for him.

Geoff.


After obama, it would seem logical to consider shooting the next one ...
a prison cell would take care of obama -- and there are numerous reasons
for such actions!

While true, obama is no worse than any of the crooked presidents,
beginning with nixon, and including ALL of them since ... these crooks
are getting old, and our wallets and standard of living unable to afford
more of them.

Regards,
JS

MotoFox wrote:

Much as I hate it myself, I do have to give compact fluorescent lighting
props for two things, though--(1) their heat output is far lower than
that of an incandescent bulb and (2) the light output is considerably
better than any LEDs I've ever seen. Personally, I can't figure out why
anyone would want these harsh blue LEDs polluting their houses, ...

That's not the fault of LEDs. LEDs like flourecent lights produce light
in a few different colors. Combining those colors into what you see as
white is done in your brain, and the proportion of those colors affects
what you see it as.

More blue and it looks like the daytime sky (hence the floursecent lamps
called daylight) and more red looks like fire light (hence the flourescent
lamps called warm white).

Early CFLs (around 15 years ago, when I first got them) were all daylight
and produced harsh unusable light. I could only use them outdoors and
in windowless rooms where cheap was more important than color.

Now it is easy to get warm CFLs and they are much more agreeable than
the old blue/green heavy ones the past.

LEDs will also move in that direction as people demand them.

Note that the color affects the way people think, and cool lights make them
more "edgy" which is good if you want people to work harder. Warm lights
make people feel more comfortable and mellow, which is better for homes,
etc.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(

On 12/19/2011 12:09 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
MotoFox wrote:

Much as I hate it myself, I do have to give compact fluorescent lighting
props for two things, though--(1) their heat output is far lower than
that of an incandescent bulb and (2) the light output is considerably
better than any LEDs I've ever seen. Personally, I can't figure out why
anyone would want these harsh blue LEDs polluting their houses, ...

That's not the fault of LEDs. LEDs like flourecent lights produce light
in a few different colors. Combining those colors into what you see as
white is done in your brain, and the proportion of those colors affects
what you see it as.

More blue and it looks like the daytime sky (hence the floursecent lamps
called daylight) and more red looks like fire light (hence the flourescent
lamps called warm white).

Early CFLs (around 15 years ago, when I first got them) were all daylight
and produced harsh unusable light. I could only use them outdoors and
in windowless rooms where cheap was more important than color.

Now it is easy to get warm CFLs and they are much more agreeable than
the old blue/green heavy ones the past.

LEDs will also move in that direction as people demand them.

Note that the color affects the way people think, and cool lights make them
more "edgy" which is good if you want people to work harder. Warm lights
make people feel more comfortable and mellow, which is better for homes,
etc.

Geoff.



I never have liked "warm white", always preferred "cool white" and now
that daylight bulbs are just as cheap, I prefer them also, so does the
wife ... and the dim-able fluorescent are nice for room lighting.

Have never noticed light really affecting my mood, or anyone else, for
that matter, but I know people with mental problems are having all sorts
of people attempt to manipulate them with light, colors, food, drugs,
etc. -- any prison or mental hospital and you will find examples ...

All I notice is others home appear dim to me, when bathed in warm white ...

Regards,
JS

On 12/19/2011 12:08 PM, MotoFox wrote:
And it came to pass that John Smith delivered the following message unto
the people, saying~

After obama, it would seem logical to consider shooting the next one ... a
prison cell would take care of obama -- and there are numerous reasons for
such actions!

It'll never happen. We're still waiting for Bu$h to rightfully have his
ass handed to him in Gitmo, but we know that'll never happen either.

So, don't hold your breath.....


I am for shipping him off to a country who knows how to try him as a war
criminal!

Regards,
JS

I personally would never consider using incandescent bulbs again. I
switched to CFL bulbs a long time ago. I can't really even remember
the last time I had to replace one. They last soooo much longer! They
do not generate any (ANY) RFI, even when they're in close proximity to
your radio gear. The law can say anything it likes so far as I'm
concerned....just so long as it doesn't make it harder for me to get
CFL bulbs!

PUH-LEEZE don't use ANYTHING Bush did as any argument "in-favor." I could
list you MANY reasons if freedom of speech existed anymore.

If you are even able to see that much of a difference on your electric bill
YOU ARE LEAVING TOO DAMN MANY LIGHTS ON in your house. Why don't you turn a
light off when you leave the room?

You get the leaders talking out of both sides of their mouths about "going
green" to cut down on THEIR OWN usage and then we'll debate.


Well, maybe so...

...but you DID dodge the question

On 12/20/2011 7:00 AM, Ernie wrote:
PUH-LEEZE don't use ANYTHING Bush did as any argument "in-favor." I
could list you MANY reasons if freedom of speech existed anymore.

If you are even able to see that much of a difference on your electric
bill YOU ARE LEAVING TOO DAMN MANY LIGHTS ON in your house. Why don't
you turn a light off when you leave the room?

You get the leaders talking out of both sides of their mouths about
"going green" to cut down on THEIR OWN usage and then we'll debate.


Well, maybe so...

...but you DID dodge the question



Actually, you can buy a watt meter at lowes, homedepot or most any
hardware store near you, plug in a 100w incandescent, do your
measurements, plug in a fluorescent, do your measurements ... then
compute costs based on the price of electricity per/KW on your bill ...

We have also put everything on timers to avoid hitting peak times, we
basically "go dark" at peak and then back on after ... wife does
laundry, run dishwasher, showers, etc., always off peak times ...

If you don't think you can make one hell of a dent in your power bill,
think again, and fluorescent/LEDs are a part of that difference ...
unless you live in a tent and use but a single light bulb ...

Also, we have split our appliance between natural gas and electricity,
so we never exceed the allotted cubic feet and KW/hrs. Of course, if I
worked for the power company, I might advise others to use more. lol

Regards,
JS

On 12/19/2011 9:30 PM, Steve wrote:
I personally would never consider using incandescent bulbs again. I
switched to CFL bulbs a long time ago. I can't really even remember
the last time I had to replace one. They last soooo much longer! They
do not generate any (ANY) RFI, even when they're in close proximity to
your radio gear. The law can say anything it likes so far as I'm
concerned....just so long as it doesn't make it harder for me to get
CFL bulbs!

Well, the first/cheap fluorescent were a real RFI problem for me, proper
filters on my lines cut this to acceptable ... however, these days the
new RFI have to be very close to my am radio for the noise to be picked
up by its' ferrite loopstick. Seems to me they have "fixed" the
problem, least as far as I am concerned ... but then, I am still running
the filters on my lines because the wife just loves room light dimmers
.... these were always my biggest RFI problem ... probably should look to
see if there are quieter ones available ...

Regards,
JS

John Smith wrote:

We have also put everything on timers to avoid hitting peak times, we
basically "go dark" at peak and then back on after ... wife does
laundry, run dishwasher, showers, etc., always off peak times ...

I use several CFLs in places that need to be on almost the entire day,
from 5am until 2am, for example in a windowless bathroom. I don't bother
with a timer, I just use an 8w CFL, which is enough to do most things
you would do in a bathroom. When you want more light, there is a two 40w
floursecent fixture which gets turned on and off as needed.

I also put two 28 watt warm CFLs in a hallway that was "dark and dirty" (or it
looked that way, it really was clean) because it was unlit. They are on
(manually) from around 6:30am until 1am. It really changes the look of the
place and since there is light I put some house plants on top of a cabinet
near one of the lights. I could of done the same thing with 2 100 Watt or
4 60 Watt incandescent bulbs, but the cost of the fixtures would of been
a lot higher, and the operating cost prohibative.

So instead of a dark "pit" which is ignored, it has become the center of
the apartment when you walk in the door and you see a warm, comforting
light and green plants.


If you don't think you can make one hell of a dent in your power bill,
think again, and fluorescent/LEDs are a part of that difference ...
unless you live in a tent and use but a single light bulb ...

If you need incandescent light for reading, you can always buy small
spot beams which don't light (and warm) the rest of the room up.

I do find that flourescent lights in general are not as good for close
work or reading, so I often have to use more of them than the usual
stated amounts. For example, I have two 2x40 Watt fixtures in the kitchen,
a 28 Watt fixture over the sink, and a 12 Watt CFL in the ceiling fan,
which is used to light the room when it is not in use (so you can see
how to get around).

That would be the equivalent of over 1KW of incandescent lighting, which
would not only be too expensive to run, but would produce enough heat
I could cook things right on the table. :-)

Also, we have split our appliance between natural gas and electricity,
so we never exceed the allotted cubic feet and KW/hrs. Of course, if I
worked for the power company, I might advise others to use more. lol

:-)

geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(

On 12/20/2011 10:00 AM, Ernie wrote:
PUH-LEEZE don't use ANYTHING Bush did as any argument "in-favor." I
could list you MANY reasons if freedom of speech existed anymore.

Only reason I mentioned Bush is that many people here have been blaming
the "CFL law" on Obama, patently un-true. Just wanted to place credit
(or blame) where it is due -- on W.

If you are even able to see that much of a difference on your electric
bill YOU ARE LEAVING TOO DAMN MANY LIGHTS ON in your house. Why don't
you turn a light off when you leave the room?

First of all, I DO turn off lights when I leave the room. And the
bottom line is that CFLs use ONE QUARTER of the power that incandescent
uses. So, no matter how many or how few lights you use or turn off, your
lighting bill will STILL be one quarter.

You get the leaders talking out of both sides of their mouths about
"going green" to cut down on THEIR OWN usage and then we'll debate.

Huh? What's to "debate"? Why should what a "leader's" electric bill is
have anything at all to do with ME using one fourth of the electricity
on MY bill.

Congratulations! You're still doing a fine job of dodging and tap
dancing -- but still avoiding the undisputable fact that, for the same
light output, CFLs use ONE FOURTH the electricity (no matter what anyone
else does) and puts one fourth of the mercury into the air at the power
plant.