Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old March 20th 04, 07:29 PM
Occasional AB Listener
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pros and cons of Broadband Power Lines (BPLs)

Tonight (March 20, 2004), at 10:05 Pacific Time on "Coast to Coast A.M,"
late-night radio talk-show host Art Bell is going to take a breather
from the customary paranormal and conspiracy-related format and discuss
a topic that will interest most -- if not all -- radio amateurs,
shortwave radio enthusiasts and broadband users: Broadband Power Lines
(BPLs).

Now under development, BPL is a technology that will allow computer
users to access high-speed, broadband Internet connections just by
plugging the computer into the wall outlet. No need to pay hundreds of
dollars in installation, activation/deactivation and service fees for
Digital Subscriber Lines (DSL) or cable modems, just literally plug and
play.

Fans and supporters of BPL include the Federal Communications
Commission, Power Line Communications Association and local utility
companies. Since power lines are available in urban and rural areas,
while DSL and cable services are limited or inaccessible in some
sparsely populated areas, BPL is anticipated to be a major challenge to
the existing methods of high-speed access. But BPL is not without its
drawbacks.

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is concerned about the amount of
RF interference generated by BPL. According to their website
(http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc), "Studies done by amateurs and
regulators worldwide demonstrate conclusively that BPL that uses HF or
VHF spectrum will cause serious degradation of the communications
capability to nearby receivers on frequencies that BPL uses. HF is a
unique international resource that is in use by commercial radio
services, broadcasting, amateurs, government and military operators."

Early Saturday morning, about 2 a.m. PST on 3840kHz, Art himself (radio
amateur W6OBB) and his roundtable of fellow ham radio operators were
discussing the amount of interference -- especially from 2MHz to 80MHz
-- BPL can cause if service is implemented nationally. The hams
conversing with Art on the 80-meter band said that constant buzzing
heard on those frequencies will anger shortwave listeners and hams alike
if RF interference is constantly heard on those frequencies.

Another problem is the potential health risks associated. Could a
substantial increase in RF exposure -- especially around the household
-- contribute to the rise in cancer-related diseases? A very close
friend of mine, who happens to be a ham radio operator living near
Switzerland, explained to me that most of Europe has scrapped plans for
BPL because of possible RF-related diseases, as well as RF interference
in commercial and amateur/SWL communications.

Nevertheless, tonight's "C2C" is going to be extremely interesting and
worthwhile to those who are interested in all forms of radio
communications. My friends and I will definitely be listening.



Occasional AB (Art Bell) Listener

  #2   Report Post  
Old March 22nd 04, 06:17 AM
Occasional AB Listener
 
Posts: n/a
Default

mAximo wrote:

A hypochondria-mongering huckster for the tin-foil-hat industry,
Occasional AB Listener, wrote in

Tonight (March 20, 2004), at 10:05 Pacific Time on "Coast to Coast A.M,"
late-night radio talk-show host Art Bell is going to take a breather
from the customary paranormal and conspiracy-related format and discuss
a topic that will interest most --
snip
Could a substantial increase in RF exposure -- especially around the
household -- contribute to the rise in cancer-related diseases?



It's a rhetorical question, Mr. Lachman. Some supporters of BPL say
that there are no health risks involved, while some of the opponents say
that there are documented cases of health risks. It's like the
researchers and scientists paid for by the nuclear energy industry
telling us that nuclear power is harmless to the general population. In
fact, some of the bigwigs who support the transportation of nuclear
waste say that nuclear material is safe even when the transporters are
involved in a serious traffic accident.

What is your take on the issue, Mr. Lachman? Is there any documentation
from other countries to prove or disprove the possibility of any serious
health risks involved with the use of BPL?



Occasional AB (Art Bell) Listener
  #3   Report Post  
Old March 22nd 04, 06:27 AM
Occasional AB Listener
 
Posts: n/a
Default

mAximo wrote:

A hypochondria-mongering huckster for the tin-foil-hat industry,
Occasional AB Listener, wrote in



Tonight (March 20, 2004), at 10:05 Pacific Time on "Coast to Coast A.M,"
late-night radio talk-show host Art Bell is going to take a breather
from the customary paranormal and conspiracy-related format and discuss
a topic that will interest most --
snip
Could a substantial increase in RF exposure -- especially around the
household -- contribute to the rise in cancer-related diseases?



It's a rhetorical question, Mr. Lachman. Some supporters of BPL say
that there are no health risks involved, while some of the opponents say
that there are documented cases of health risks. It's like the
researchers and scientists paid for by the nuclear energy industry
telling us that nuclear power is harmless to the general population. In
fact, some of the bigwigs who support the transportation of nuclear
waste say that nuclear material is safe even when the transporters are
involved in a serious traffic accident.

What is your take on the issue, Mr. Lachman? Is there any documentation
from other countries to prove or disprove the possibility of any serious
health risks involved with the use of BPL, especially in Europe and
Japan? Let's see what fellow ham radio operators have to say about this
issue.



Occasional AB (Art Bell) Listener
  #4   Report Post  
Old March 22nd 04, 03:52 PM
Mark Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Occasional AB Listener wrote in message

Another problem is the potential health risks associated. Could a
substantial increase in RF exposure -- especially around the household
-- contribute to the rise in cancer-related diseases?


NO! The rf levels are too low. Any worry of that is silly. The only
REAL worries, are about how bad that mess will trash the HF and LOW
VHF bands. I've already come up with my plan, if my receiver is
assaulted by this unwanted rf in the area. It's simple. If my radio is
assaulted by BPL leakage, I'll just assault the *******s right back.
I'll turn my beam towards the power line, crank up my henry to full
power, and blow and go. I'll put that frigging BPL system on hold!
They will have so many data errors, a dial up connection will look
attractive. In order to "cure" their newfound problem, they will have
to clean up the leakage. If they want to keep me out, they will have
to keep themselves within. Very simple solution I think...

A very close
friend of mine, who happens to be a ham radio operator living near
Switzerland, explained to me that most of Europe has scrapped plans for
BPL because of possible RF-related diseases, as well as RF interference
in commercial and amateur/SWL communications.


Those idiots must have brain damage to believe that low a level of rf
would be a threat to health....Sounds like they have been doing "head
in the microwave" testing...MK

  #5   Report Post  
Old March 22nd 04, 04:36 PM
Occasional AB Listener
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mark Keith wrote:

Occasional AB Listener wrote in message

Another problem is the potential health risks associated. Could a
substantial increase in RF exposure -- especially around the household
-- contribute to the rise in cancer-related diseases?


NO! The rf levels are too low. Any worry of that is silly. The only
REAL worries, are about how bad that mess will trash the HF and LOW
VHF bands. I've already come up with my plan, if my receiver is
assaulted by this unwanted rf in the area. It's simple. If my radio is
assaulted by BPL leakage, I'll just assault the *******s right back.
I'll turn my beam towards the power line, crank up my henry to full
power, and blow and go. I'll put that frigging BPL system on hold!
They will have so many data errors, a dial up connection will look
attractive. In order to "cure" their newfound problem, they will have
to clean up the leakage. If they want to keep me out, they will have
to keep themselves within. Very simple solution I think...



Then I guess the concerns raised by the Amherst Alliance in Federal
Communications Commission Docket No. 03-104: Broadband Transmissions
Over Power Lines (May 23, 2003;
http://www.amherstalliance.org/filin...-powerline.doc), may just
be hype. In page 10 of the Inquiry, the citizens' advocacy group
petitioned the following to the FCC:


If BPL transmissions are ever authorized at all,
they should be authorized only after:

(1) The potential for interference with radio astronomy,
shortwave radio equipment, Amateur Radio Service
equipment and CB Radio equipment has been tested and
measured, in experiments involving actual users of the
affected frequencies; And

(2) The potential effects of BPL electromagnetic radiation
on the health of exposed humans and animals has been
fully assessed; And

(3) To the extent necessary for the protection of equipment
and living things, effective and appropriate
countermeasures, such as possible shielding of power
lines, have been identified, evaluated and implemented.


I agree with the inevitability that massive interference will be created
on most HF and VHF frequencies if or when BPL is implemented. I hope
the naysayers in Europe and Japan who claim that BPL could cause
long-term adverse health conditions are merely making an issue out of a
non-issue. If this technology is going to be here to stay (it may not
because of the complaints posed by ham/SWL operators relating to RF
interference), then I want to be assured that my family and I will be
safe from any potential health risks involved.




Occasional AB (Art Bell) Listener


  #6   Report Post  
Old March 22nd 04, 06:56 PM
starman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mark Keith wrote:

Occasional AB Listener wrote in message

Another problem is the potential health risks associated. Could a
substantial increase in RF exposure -- especially around the household
-- contribute to the rise in cancer-related diseases?


NO! The rf levels are too low. Any worry of that is silly. The only
REAL worries, are about how bad that mess will trash the HF and LOW
VHF bands. I've already come up with my plan, if my receiver is
assaulted by this unwanted rf in the area. It's simple. If my radio is
assaulted by BPL leakage, I'll just assault the *******s right back.
I'll turn my beam towards the power line, crank up my henry to full
power, and blow and go. I'll put that frigging BPL system on hold!
They will have so many data errors, a dial up connection will look
attractive. In order to "cure" their newfound problem, they will have
to clean up the leakage. If they want to keep me out, they will have
to keep themselves within. Very simple solution I think...


The BPL industry has already thought of the possibility that ham's might
try to jam the BPL system. They could enact legislation to make it
illegal to intentionally interfere with it. Enforcement might include
fines or even canceling the license of an offending ham' and
confiscating his equipment. It could get really nasty.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
  #7   Report Post  
Old March 22nd 04, 08:56 PM
Frank Dresser
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"starman" wrote in message
...
Mark Keith wrote:

NO! The rf levels are too low. Any worry of that is silly. The only
REAL worries, are about how bad that mess will trash the HF and LOW
VHF bands. I've already come up with my plan, if my receiver is
assaulted by this unwanted rf in the area. It's simple. If my radio is
assaulted by BPL leakage, I'll just assault the *******s right back.
I'll turn my beam towards the power line, crank up my henry to full
power, and blow and go. I'll put that frigging BPL system on hold!
They will have so many data errors, a dial up connection will look
attractive. In order to "cure" their newfound problem, they will have
to clean up the leakage. If they want to keep me out, they will have
to keep themselves within. Very simple solution I think...


The BPL industry has already thought of the possibility that ham's might
try to jam the BPL system. They could enact legislation to make it
illegal to intentionally interfere with it. Enforcement might include
fines or even canceling the license of an offending ham' and
confiscating his equipment. It could get really nasty.


Who has more friends on the FCC and in Congress? Hams or the BPL industry?
Well, nobody's been "gushing" over ham radio lately.

Frank Dresser


  #8   Report Post  
Old March 23rd 04, 02:45 PM
David
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That's already illegal.

You are only allowed to emit for communications or brief testing.
You are only allowed to use sufficient power to accomplish a reliable
communication.


On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:56:24 -0500, starman wrote:


The BPL industry has already thought of the possibility that ham's might
try to jam the BPL system. They could enact legislation to make it
illegal to intentionally interfere with it. Enforcement might include
fines or even canceling the license of an offending ham' and
confiscating his equipment. It could get really nasty.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


  #9   Report Post  
Old March 24th 04, 05:39 AM
Mark Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default

starman wrote in message ...


The BPL industry has already thought of the possibility that ham's might
try to jam the BPL system. They could enact legislation to make it
illegal to intentionally interfere with it. Enforcement might include
fines or even canceling the license of an offending ham' and
confiscating his equipment. It could get really nasty.


I don't care. All I have to do is actually talk to someone while I'm
doing it.
They could never prove I was actually jamming them, unless I said so.
If they jam *me* with their noisy BPL, yes, it could get really nasty.

The BPL carrier should be more worried about what the fcc thought of
their excessive radiation, than I should be of operating normally...
I wouldn't be doing anything I don't already do now. If I point in
nearly any direction, I'm aiming at power lines at various distances.
If I'm pointing NE-E-SE, I'm pounding the crap out of them, being they
are running along the rear property line. Even with just 100w. I
wouldn't even need my amp, if I was on the yagi. To sum...The BPL ops
can suck eggs. They better run a clean ship if they start that crap
around here. Otherwise I will consider it my duty to be a pain in
their rears. But, on the plus side, here in the fat city, RR cable
access , DSL, etc, etc are all readily available. This area is wired
for RR cable internet along with the TV, and it's fairly popular I
think. Maybe that will stave off the encroach of BPL a little here.
Maybe not though... MK
  #10   Report Post  
Old March 24th 04, 06:30 AM
starman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mark Keith wrote:

starman wrote in message ...


The BPL industry has already thought of the possibility that ham's might
try to jam the BPL system. They could enact legislation to make it
illegal to intentionally interfere with it. Enforcement might include
fines or even canceling the license of an offending ham' and
confiscating his equipment. It could get really nasty.


I don't care. All I have to do is actually talk to someone while I'm
doing it.
They could never prove I was actually jamming them, unless I said so.
If they jam *me* with their noisy BPL, yes, it could get really nasty.

The BPL carrier should be more worried about what the fcc thought of
their excessive radiation, than I should be of operating normally...
I wouldn't be doing anything I don't already do now. If I point in
nearly any direction, I'm aiming at power lines at various distances.
If I'm pointing NE-E-SE, I'm pounding the crap out of them, being they
are running along the rear property line. Even with just 100w. I
wouldn't even need my amp, if I was on the yagi. To sum...The BPL ops
can suck eggs. They better run a clean ship if they start that crap
around here. Otherwise I will consider it my duty to be a pain in
their rears. But, on the plus side, here in the fat city, RR cable
access , DSL, etc, etc are all readily available. This area is wired
for RR cable internet along with the TV, and it's fairly popular I
think. Maybe that will stave off the encroach of BPL a little here.
Maybe not though... MK


We shouldn't underestimate what a large industry can do to get their
way. The BPL companies could lobby congress to change the interference
regulations, making ham's responsible for not causing interference to
BPL, regardless of whether it's intentional or not. I wouldn't be
surprised if the ARRL sues the BPL industry, if it proves to be a real
problem for amateur radio. Hopefully other affected services would do
the same. Powell's term expires in June 30, 2007. The next president
will have the opportunity to nominate Powell's replacement. However the
next FCC chairman could be anyone who is still on the board at that
time.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hardline useage, pro's and cons aunwin Antenna 4 June 20th 04 06:22 PM
kaito KA1102 pros and cons Altawaowr Shortwave 3 December 14th 03 03:35 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:44 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 RadioBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Radio"

 

Copyright © 2017