"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
link.net...


Not at all. For example, in the example given, the "ee" in "three
months"
is clearly raised above the surrounding text (the entire characters,
including the tops and bottoms). That is typical of a heavily worn
typewriter, not a computer.


The Clue Train came and went and left Dwight behind.


http://www.flounder.com/bush.htm

"I am one of the pioneers of electronic typesetting"

" the placement is pixelwise identical to Microsoft's Times New Roman"

"Not only are these documents forgeries, they are incompetently done
forgeries:


Yes.

"Sir Cumference" wrote in message
...

The Selectric Composer could do proportional font spacing, but it was a
high-quality, high-end, expensive unit used mostly by commercial
printing firms for producing camera ready type or firms needing
high-quality printing. And they were not easy to use or repair.


Even so, I'd think someone would have retyped the documents on such a
typewriter by now, just to prove that it they didn't have to have been done
MS Word.

Frank Dresser

Frank Dresser wrote:

"Sir Cumference" wrote in message
...

The Selectric Composer could do proportional font spacing, but it was a
high-quality, high-end, expensive unit used mostly by commercial
printing firms for producing camera ready type or firms needing
high-quality printing. And they were not easy to use or repair.



Even so, I'd think someone would have retyped the documents on such a
typewriter by now, just to prove that it they didn't have to have been done
MS Word.

Frank Dresser



They have.

http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_shape_of_days/2004/09/the_ibm_selectr.html

CLIFTO,

General Say's '60 Minutes' Mislead Him and Documents are Fake [.]

As Reported by the Washington Post

"Major General Bobby Hodges

One of the main sources for the 60 Minutes report was Major
General Bobby W. Hodges, Lt. Col. Killian's superior. According
to the Washington Post, a senior CBS official called Hodges CBS's
"trump card."

However, according to a September 12 Washington Post story, Hodges
said he was "misled" by CBS and now believes the documents are
forgeries. "Now that I have had a chance to see them, I think
they are fake," Hodges told the Post.

Not surprisingly, Dan Rather didn't mention his trump card in his
report. However, Hodges is mentioned indirectly; he is one of the
"solid sources" upon which Rather relied for the original 60 Minutes
report."

SOURCE= http://www.intellectualconservative....ticle3784.html


+ New Doubt Cast on Guard Documents
Military Official now says CBS Records are Fake
- by Michael Rezendes and Walter V. Robinson, Globe Staff
- John 'ff' Kerry's home town newspaper the Boston Globe
- (The Boston Globe is 'owned-by' the New York Times)
- 12 SEPT 2004
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/09/12/new_doubt_cast_on_guard_documents/


* Bush Papers Phony, says National Guard Official who had worked with
CBS
- by Ralph Blumenthal and Jim Rutenberg, New York Times
- September 12, 2004
- Minneapolis Star Tribune
http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/4976522.html


+ More Doubt Cast on Memos used in '60 Minutes' Report
- by Ralph Blumenthal, Jim Rutenberg, New York Times
- SF Chronical
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/09/12/MNG2S8NPHV1.DTL


So What's the Frequency {Now} Dan ?

Just the Facts ~ RHF
..
..
= = = clifto wrote in message
= = = ...
Dan wrote:
These things are such obvious fakes that, if CBS had *any* integrity
left at all, Dan Rather should be fired on the spot.

The lies continue and compound.

http://progresssivetrail.org/articles/040911Peralta.shtml says,
"1. Times New Roman Fonts did not exist in 1972.

"The Times New Roman font was developed in 1931 by Stanley Morison,
Typographical Advisor to the Monotype Corporation who adapted the
font to the IBM selectric [sic] Typewriter in 1947."

The font *may* have been developed in 1931; Morison was NOT advisor to
Monotype Corporation, but to the Times (newspaper) of London. Victor
Lardent of the Times actually drew the original design.

The IBM Selectric [tm] Typewriter was introduced in 1961. To my knowledge,
there was never a proportional-space version of the Selectric. Certainly
the mechanics of the Selectric would have made proportional spacing
very difficult if not impossible.
..

"Mark S. Holden" wrote:

Frank Dresser wrote:

"Sir Cumference" wrote in message
...

The Selectric Composer could do proportional font spacing, but it was a
high-quality, high-end, expensive unit used mostly by commercial
printing firms for producing camera ready type or firms needing
high-quality printing. And they were not easy to use or repair.



Even so, I'd think someone would have retyped the documents on such a
typewriter by now, just to prove that it they didn't have to have been done
MS Word.

Frank Dresser



They have.

http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_shape_of_days/2004/09/the_ibm_selectr.html

I find it quite interesting that '60 Minutes' likes to focus on memo's from folks
who've been dead for 20 years, but refuses to spend time with 250+ fellows who
served with Kerry, and dispute his version of events.

Is Dan Rather hiding in his spider hole?

dxAce

"Mark S. Holden" wrote in message
...

They have.


http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_s...ibm_selectr.ht
ml



That's very interesting, thanks! By the way, there's been alot of
speculation about MS Word. Just to widen the field a little, it seems
likely the IBM/Lotus word processor would also have whatever fonts the
selectric had.

Frank Dresser

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


"Mark S. Holden" wrote:

Frank Dresser wrote:

"Sir Cumference" wrote in message
...

The Selectric Composer could do proportional font spacing, but
it was a
high-quality, high-end, expensive unit used mostly by commercial
printing firms for producing camera ready type or firms needing
high-quality printing. And they were not easy to use or repair.



Even so, I'd think someone would have retyped the documents on
such a
typewriter by now, just to prove that it they didn't have to
have been done
MS Word.

Frank Dresser



They have.


http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_s...9/the_ibm_sele
ctr.html

I find it quite interesting that '60 Minutes' likes to focus on
memo's from folks
who've been dead for 20 years, but refuses to spend time with 250+
fellows who
served with Kerry, and dispute his version of events.

Is Dan Rather hiding in his spider hole?

IMO, this is the -real- story of this whole controversy. We can argue
back and forth ad nauseam about whether the Nat Guard story should
have been done based on those documents. But one issue is
undeniable--when the Swift Boat Veterans spoke, big media in general
and CBS in particular -ignored- them. When they were covered, it
wasn't the substance of what they said that received coverage, it was
questions about their motivation and who was "behind" them.

However, as soon as we get a "story" with potentially negative
implications for Bush--and based on questionable documentation-CBS
runs with it without asking Barnes about the fact that he told a
different story under oath, without asking him about his ties to
Kerry, and apparently without doing due diligence on the documents.

Liberal media? What liberal media?

DS,

You are smart than this. With the 'right' Computer and Software
any "IMAGE" (Text Document) can be created for under $5K.

In the "Old Document" 're-manufacturing' business there are
Devise Emulator Programs that will give you IBM Selectric Composer,
an old Soviet Military Typewriter, or what ever is needed to
create the proper image.

The 'use' of a "Photo Copy" of a ?document? is the easiest way
of MASKING the mechanical impressions left by (or not left by)
a Typewriter; the type of Paper-Stock & Water-Marks; and the
Inks & Dyes in the 'base' {Fake} Document.

NOTE: The Black 'ghost' Image Marks produced by the Photo
Copier can act as a Finger Print to Identify the "Actual"
Photo-Copier used to make the ?documents? .

The QUESTION Becomes "Who" provided these 'manufactured'
?documents? for 60 Minutes.

60 Minutes needs to 'come clean' with the American People.

60 Minutes needs to Identify the "Source" of the Forged Documents.

60 Minutes is Stone Walling the Search for the Truth with a
so called 'investigation'. Some now call this "DOC-U-GATE".

Failing to do so simply means that 60 Minutes is part of this
Criminal Conspircy to present these Fake Documents as real.

WHY - Has 60 Minutes Not Acted to Tell the Truth ?


Just the Facts in Search of the Truth ~ RHF
..
..
= = = "Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
= = = hlink.net...
"-=jd=-" wrote:

Where the misalignment occurs, the tops
of the characters seem to be consistent
where the bottom is truncated and
vice-versa. (snip)


Not at all. For example, in the example given, the "ee" in "three months"
is clearly raised above the surrounding text (the entire characters,
including the tops and bottoms). That is typical of a heavily worn
typewriter, not a computer.

Stewart
..

"RHF" wrote:

You are smarter than this. With the
'right' Computer and Software (snip)


Look, I don't know if the documents are fake or not. However, the
arguments used so far to suggest they are fake (line wrap, character
spacing, and a few superscript characters) are far less than convincing.
With only a photocopy available, chemical analysis of the paper would
probably be useless. And the person who sent photocopies of military
documents to the press is not likely to come forward now to point to the
original documents. So, at this point, the authenticity of the documents may
simply remain an open question.

Stewart

Frank Dresser wrote:

"Mark S. Holden" wrote in message
...

They have.


http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_s...ibm_selectr.ht
ml



That's very interesting, thanks! By the way, there's been alot of
speculation about MS Word. Just to widen the field a little, it seems
likely the IBM/Lotus word processor would also have whatever fonts the
selectric had.

Frank Dresser

ANY windoze word processor should have the same fonts, but I'm not sure the spacing and kerning would be the same.

I'm not an expert in type fonts, but different programs may use somewhat different kerning. I know PageMaker (A full featured desktop publishing program) uses different spacing algorithms than Word.