"Sir Cumference" wrote in message
...
Gandalf Grey wrote:

"Sir Cumference" wrote in message
...

Gandalf Grey wrote:


Not really. We already know everything in the docs that's of any
material value.

Then why was CBS so anxious to build their whole case around these
documents?


CBS wasn't making "a case." They had a report. Part of that report was
documents. But the actual knowledge of Bush's military days predates
the
CBS report and has nothing to do with the CBS documents.

But CBS and Dan Blater were relying heavily on their forged documents to
support their claims in their report. Now they have egg all over their
faces.

We'll see.


We knew he got in via Barnes.

Barnes's daughter says differently.


That's a claim from a once removed source. Claims as such don't really
hold
much water.



That is a claim directly from Barnes' daughter. I heard her on a radio
interview, she has been interview many times.

So what? It's still a claim. I'll take Barne's word over what was going on
in Barne's mind before I'll take his daughter's on the same subject.



Chemical analysis will prove it the documents are on paper from the
1970's. Bet CBS won't let the documents be submitted to such an
analysis.


Now you're assuming what you're attempting to prove.

Care to clarify that last statement?

It's self-explanatory.

Mark S. Holden wrote:
Frank Dresser wrote:

"Sir Cumference" wrote in message
...

The Selectric Composer could do proportional font spacing, but it was a
high-quality, high-end, expensive unit used mostly by commercial
printing firms for producing camera ready type or firms needing
high-quality printing. And they were not easy to use or repair.



Even so, I'd think someone would have retyped the documents on such a
typewriter by now, just to prove that it they didn't have to have been
done
MS Word.

Frank Dresser



They have.

http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_shape_of_days/2004/09/the_ibm_selectr.html



And the author says, "Typing "IBM Selectric Composer" into that search
site took me to the aptly named ibmcomposer.org, which describes itself
as "the only site on the Internet completely dedicated to the IBM
'Selectric' Composer line of typesetting machines." The site, which is
run by Gerry Kaplan, includes information, scanned user manuals, and
photographs of the only working IBM Selectric Composer I've been able to
find."

Notice that last sentence, "only working IBM Selectric Composer I've
been able to find."
Being high-end, high-dollor, machines designed mostly for the commercial
printing industry, these units were not found in abudance, especially in
clerical offices for cranking out memos and general correspondance. I
spent 27 years with IBM and never saw one of these units while
Selectrics were everywhere. My wife was a secretary at IBM, and she
never saw a Composer unit.
So what are the chances of a small Texas ANG unit having a Composer
unit?... slim to none with the emphasis on none.

"Gandalf Grey" wrote in message
m...

Doll? You mean Kerry? Yes, I have also heard that Kerry shot a boulder
or

Bob Dole Tossed a grenade, it bounced off a tree and he got a nick on his
shin along with a purple heart.


Ahhhh, I see Rick Hanson has been reduced to
defending Kerry by likening him to Bob Dole.

Nice work, Mr. jd.

In article , dxAce
wrote:

"Mark S. Holden" wrote:

Frank Dresser wrote:

"Sir Cumference" wrote in message
...

The Selectric Composer could do proportional font spacing, but it
was a high-quality, high-end, expensive unit used mostly by
commercial printing firms for producing camera ready type or
firms needing high-quality printing. And they were not easy to
use or repair.



Even so, I'd think someone would have retyped the documents on
such a typewriter by now, just to prove that it they didn't have
to have been done MS Word.

Frank Dresser



They have.

http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_s.../09/the_ibm_se
lectr.ht ml

I find it quite interesting that '60 Minutes' likes to focus on
memo's from folks who've been dead for 20 years, but refuses to spend
time with 250+ fellows who served with Kerry, and dispute his version
of events.

Is Dan Rather hiding in his spider hole?

CBS is not looking like much of a news organization these days.

1. They decided not to air the conversations of several people that had
input on these faked documents. This was a deliberate attempt to present
only one side of the story; the only side Blather wanted shown.

2. They do not have the original documents only copies.

3. The copies conveniently came from the Kerry campaign.

Dan Blather is left holding the bag for the Kerry campaign.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article ,
"-=jd=-" wrote:

On Sun 12 Sep 2004 10:48:05p, Hugh Sedditt wrote
in message :

In article ,
"-=jd=-" wrote:

On Sat 11 Sep 2004 06:12:01p, "Gandalf Grey"
wrote in message
m:


"John" wrote in message
...
Isle Of The Dead wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...


There is NO reliable evidence the documents are fake.


Dude, what part of "computer age"
do you NOT understand?



I USED TYPEWRITERS THAT COULD DO IT BACK IN THE EARLY SEVENTIES
DICKHEAD!

1. It's been established in the last 24 hours that typewriters of the
time could do what we've seen.
2. Isle of the Dead is a known newsgroup psychotic. Don't waste your
time.



It's only been established that some typewriters had the type-font.
What has not been established is if *any* typewriters of the time could
be used to reproduce what someone (according to NPR) has done:
- Type the content of the suspect document using MS Word.
- Print the MS-Word doc on a laser printer.
- Scan the MS-Word doc
- Scan a copy of the suspect document
- Superimpose the two over each other and marvel at how they line up.

Maybe it's not outside the realm of infinite possibilities that a
chiefly mechanical device in the early seventies has the same
typographical characteristics of a current software based
word-processing program to include type spacing, kerning,
justification, character registration, etc, etc, etc...

You have no clue how flexible Microsoft Word is, do you?
Bill Gates would HANG HIS HEAD IN SHAME and declare
a DAY OF ATONEMENT if you could not do that.

== The difference between information and understanding is thought. ==


But, I *do* know how flexible MS-Word is. The point you seem to miss is
that you can duplicate the (supposed) 30 year old typewriter produced
documents without "jonesing around" with *any* advanced features of MS-
Word; No MS-Word "wizardry" is required at all. If it were a spreadsheet
being compared to Excel, It would be as if all one would need to know how
to do is sum a column of numbers.

It doesn't work that way on my computer. There are differences in the
letter spacing. However, I agree the typefont is a close match.

== The difference between information and understanding is thought. ==

In article ,
"Gandalf Grey" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
..
.
In article ,
"Gandalf Grey" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message

..
.
In article ,
"-=jd=-" wrote:

On Sat 11 Sep 2004 11:47:47p, "Gandalf Grey"
wrote in message
m:


"-=jd=-" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat 11 Sep 2004 11:10:02p, "Gandalf Grey"
wrote in message
m:


"-=jd=-" wrote in message
...
On Sat 11 Sep 2004 09:20:11p, "Gandalf Grey"
wrote in message
m:


"-=jd=-" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat 11 Sep 2004 06:12:01p, "Gandalf Grey"
wrote in message
m:


"John" wrote in message
...
Isle Of The Dead wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...


There is NO reliable evidence the documents are fake.


Dude, what part of "computer age"
do you NOT understand?



I USED TYPEWRITERS THAT COULD DO IT BACK IN THE EARLY
SEVENTIES DICKHEAD!

1. It's been established in the last 24 hours that
typewriters
of the time could do what we've seen.
2. Isle of the Dead is a known newsgroup psychotic.
Don't
waste your time.



It's only been established that some typewriters had the
type-font. What has not been established is if *any*
typewriters
of the time could be used to reproduce what someone
(according
to
NPR) has done: - Type the content of the suspect document
using
MS Word. - Print the MS-Word doc on a laser printer.
- Scan the MS-Word doc
- Scan a copy of the suspect document
- Superimpose the two over each other and marvel at how
they
line
up.

Maybe it's not outside the realm of infinite possibilities
that
a
chiefly mechanical device in the early seventies has the
same
typographical characteristics of a current software based
word-processing program to include type spacing, kerning,
justification, character registration, etc, etc, etc...

I wouldn't be so quick to declare it a definite or even
reasonable probability just yet...

Well, the raised "e" can only be accomplished in Word with
great
difficulty.

It's beginning to look like the docs are legitimate. NPR or
no
NPR.


Apparently the raised "e" can also be attributed to a defect
introduced by multiple-passes through a copier in an attempt
to
artificially "age" a document. If you've seen the pdf (I
downloaded
it from the Washington Post).

No. That wouldn't effect the "e"s alone.

Try again.


In the single position and no other "e" being affected, I would
think
it is an artifact from something other than the device that
originally
produced the document.

Now you're reaching.

No need to try again.

Wrong.


The new discoveries along with the Rovian character of the
first
criticism out make it clear that the docs are legitimate.


Opinions vary...

Rove doesn't. He's a sleazeball trickster and this is just his
style.



Besides that, the docs don't reveal anything that wasn't
already
known about Bush's desertion.



And there we have it. Who needs the docs, right? Enough said - I
think
I see where you're coming from.

Yeah. I'm coming from the truth. The existing documents without
Killian's documents already prove Bush wasn't where he was
supposed to
be. Then there are the missing documents and the picture put
together
by the AP. Bush was a technical deserter, Killian docs or no
Killian
docs. That was never really a question. The Killian docs are
interesting, but they don't change much of anything.




And Kerry received one or more of his decorations "technically". So
what?
Apparently, you come from "the truth" as only you can see it through
the
filter of your bias. Wherever Bush was, the ANG apparently did not
have
any problem with it, as can be determined by the honorable discharge
Bush
received. Or is that particular document "forged" and/or not up to
your
standards of truth?

I think it is a mistake to spend much time on Kerry's 4 months in
Vietnam since it's his word against others.

More like 3 plus years.

Excuse me, 4 months and 2 days.

Wrong.

Right. Check your facts. Buy a clue if you don't have one.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Wrong.

Right. Check your facts. Buy a clue if you don't have one.


Hanson, ahem, Gandalf, hasn't had a clue since
Clinton was elected.

If he hasn't bought a clue by now, he probably
doesn't have the spare cash to pay for one. :)

"Sir Cumference" wrote:

Dwight Stewart wrote:
And the person who sent photocopies
of military documents to the press is
not likely to come forward now to point
to the original documents.

Why not? Do you think they might be afraid
they would be made a fool of if the originals
were submitted to analysis? (snip)


Because the person very likely violated the law by releasing those
documents in the first place.

Stewart

"-=jd=-" wrote:

Neither of us are experts, (snip)


You're right. So I'll stick with my opinion and leave you to whatever
yours might be.

Stewart

= = = Sir Cumference wrote in message
= = = ...
Mark S. Holden wrote:
Frank Dresser wrote:

"Sir Cumference" wrote in message
...

The Selectric Composer could do proportional font spacing, but it was a
high-quality, high-end, expensive unit used mostly by commercial
printing firms for producing camera ready type or firms needing
high-quality printing. And they were not easy to use or repair.



Even so, I'd think someone would have retyped the documents on such a
typewriter by now, just to prove that it they didn't have to have been
done
MS Word.

Frank Dresser



They have.

http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_shape_of_days/2004/09/the_ibm_selectr.html



And the author says, "Typing "IBM Selectric Composer" into that search
site took me to the aptly named ibmcomposer.org, which describes itself
as "the only site on the Internet completely dedicated to the IBM
'Selectric' Composer line of typesetting machines." The site, which is
run by Gerry Kaplan, includes information, scanned user manuals, and
photographs of the only working IBM Selectric Composer I've been able to
find."

Notice that last sentence, "only working IBM Selectric Composer I've
been able to find."
Being high-end, high-dollor, machines designed mostly for the commercial
printing industry, these units were not found in abudance, especially in
clerical offices for cranking out memos and general correspondance. I
spent 27 years with IBM and never saw one of these units while
Selectrics were everywhere. My wife was a secretary at IBM, and she
never saw a Composer unit.
So what are the chances of a small Texas ANG unit having a Composer
unit?... slim to none with the emphasis on none.

SC,

A "Lie" can be perpetrated when it is supported by a 'kernel-of-truth';
even though that 'kernel-of-truth' is unrelated to substance of the Lie.

ssi ~ RHF

..