Yep, the latest antiterror rule from the Bushies will force all airlines
to give passenger lists to Washington for all flights just PASSING OVER
US airspace. That's right, if the flight is NOT going to or from a US
airport, but is merely passing over US airspace, the airline must give a
passenger list to the US govt and it will be checked against the no fly
list. This means that if a flight is going from Vancouver to Montreal,
IOW a Canadian DOMESTIC flight, and the flight passes over US airspace
(something that happens fairly often with Canadian domestic flights),
the Canadian airline will have to check with Homeland Security first to
see that no forbidden passengers are on it.

This wacko rule was apparently prompted by a KLM flight from Amsterdam
to Mexico City that had two Saudis on it that were on the no fly list,
and the US govt found out about it and ordered the plane to return to
Amsterdam or be shot down once it entered US airspace. Halfway through
the flight the pilot had to turn around and go back. The airlines have
two options: reroute flights around the US (impossible) or bow down to
Bush and the idiots at Homeland Security (also impossible, since it
would cost too much to clear every single flight passing over US
airspace with DHS).

The BBC interviewed some guy from AeroMexico (the Mexican national
airline) who was NOT happy. He noted that the airline cannot afford to
route flights around the US, but it would also be a severe strain on the
airline to clear flights with DHS. He noted that this new rule violates
international aviation law, but that the airline has no choice but to
try to comply.

Folks, when the US (Bush) can force something like this on foreign
governments, it has too much power, and is misusing it. I wonder why
this latest antiterror rule was NOT reported by US domestic media, maybe
because this is a bridge too far? Yet another example of the power of
shortwave.


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Greetings Running Dog!
I understand the concern for what is going to be the inevitable loss of
some of our "freedoms", but I can see the logic in this. I know it is
easy to blame this person or that person for these changes, but the
world is not the same as what we were brought up in. Who would have
thought that people would have used planes filled with good people of
all nationalities as weapons until 2001? That is the rational here.
Most of the people on shortwave I would think probably find that the
major networks are fairly liberal by most standards, yet they didn't
report much of this except that the plane had to be turned around in
mid flight. If they wanted to make Bush look bad they could have. The
topic of terrorism and public safety is too sensitive to anyone,
liberal or conservative. The preamble to the constitution sets the
protection of the people as of the highest concern. I do know that one
day it is going to go too far regarding our personal rights, but the
argument will be that the rights of the many ourway the rights of the
few. I hate slippery slopes and I believe we are on one, but sometimes
someone comes up to you and pushes you down one and there is not much
to do except to try not to get hurt. I wish we could turn the clock
back to a safer time when the world made more sence, but alas. Have a
great week! Jon.

This is very hackable.
One simply takes a small plane into the US.
US small airports, and especially private airports don't have YVR level
security.
All in all -- a bureaucratic solution to foreign aid and failed foreign
policy problem.
Not a single terrorist cell will be stopped from forming.
There are plenty of flights going to South America from Africa.
South America can be reached by Pacific Islands using routing that does not
place one into US Pacific Islands Territories airspace.
This policy will take many months to fully implement, and by then the groups
in question will have adapted to the new transport conditions.

Best solution:
Get US birth certificates from children that died -- in order to get US
passports.
The US has no national "Births and Deaths" registry, like Iceland.


Note:
Small planes can land at remote airstrips, and take off with enough reserve
fuel to return to Mexico.
I suspect that Canadian domestic flights will have to be rerouted into
Canadian airspace, a move long overdue.

Yep, the latest antiterror rule from the Bushies will force all airlines
to give passenger lists to Washington for all flights just PASSING OVER
US airspace. That's right, if the flight is NOT going to or from a US
airport, but is merely passing over US airspace, the airline must give a
passenger list to the US govt and it will be checked against the no fly
list. This means that if a flight is going from Vancouver to Montreal,
IOW a Canadian DOMESTIC flight, and the flight passes over US airspace
(something that happens fairly often with Canadian domestic flights),
the Canadian airline will have to check with Homeland Security first to
see that no forbidden passengers are on it.

running dogg wrote:

Yep, the latest antiterror rule from the Bushies will force all airlines
to give passenger lists to Washington for all flights just PASSING OVER
US airspace. That's right, if the flight is NOT going to or from a US
airport, but is merely passing over US airspace, the airline must give a
passenger list to the US govt and it will be checked against the no fly
list. This means that if a flight is going from Vancouver to Montreal,
IOW a Canadian DOMESTIC flight, and the flight passes over US airspace
(something that happens fairly often with Canadian domestic flights),
the Canadian airline will have to check with Homeland Security first to
see that no forbidden passengers are on it.

This wacko rule was apparently prompted by a KLM flight from Amsterdam
to Mexico City that had two Saudis on it that were on the no fly list,
and the US govt found out about it and ordered the plane to return to
Amsterdam or be shot down once it entered US airspace. Halfway through
the flight the pilot had to turn around and go back. The airlines have
two options: reroute flights around the US (impossible) or bow down to
Bush and the idiots at Homeland Security (also impossible, since it
would cost too much to clear every single flight passing over US
airspace with DHS).

The BBC interviewed some guy from AeroMexico (the Mexican national
airline) who was NOT happy. He noted that the airline cannot afford to
route flights around the US, but it would also be a severe strain on the
airline to clear flights with DHS. He noted that this new rule violates
international aviation law, but that the airline has no choice but to
try to comply.

Folks, when the US (Bush) can force something like this on foreign
governments, it has too much power, and is misusing it. I wonder why
this latest antiterror rule was NOT reported by US domestic media, maybe
because this is a bridge too far? Yet another example of the power of
shortwave.

NOT reported? You really need to learn how to pay attention.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

I understand the concern for what is going to be the inevitable loss
of
some of our "freedoms", but I can see the logic in this.

Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither...

jon wrote:

Greetings Running Dog!
I understand the concern for what is going to be the inevitable loss of
some of our "freedoms", but I can see the logic in this.

How is requiring a foreign airline to provide a passenger list a loss of 'our
freedoms'?

Continue to tote.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Finally some solid common sense security measures are being taken.
Be thankful Canadian flights are even allowed over US air space.

"running dogg" wrote in message
...
Yep, the latest antiterror rule from the Bushies will force all airlines
to give passenger lists to Washington for all flights just PASSING OVER
US airspace. That's right, if the flight is NOT going to or from a US
airport, but is merely passing over US airspace, the airline must give a
passenger list to the US govt and it will be checked against the no fly
list. This means that if a flight is going from Vancouver to Montreal,
IOW a Canadian DOMESTIC flight, and the flight passes over US airspace
(something that happens fairly often with Canadian domestic flights),
the Canadian airline will have to check with Homeland Security first to
see that no forbidden passengers are on it.

This wacko rule was apparently prompted by a KLM flight from Amsterdam
to Mexico City that had two Saudis on it that were on the no fly list,
and the US govt found out about it and ordered the plane to return to
Amsterdam or be shot down once it entered US airspace. Halfway through
the flight the pilot had to turn around and go back. The airlines have
two options: reroute flights around the US (impossible) or bow down to
Bush and the idiots at Homeland Security (also impossible, since it
would cost too much to clear every single flight passing over US
airspace with DHS).

The BBC interviewed some guy from AeroMexico (the Mexican national
airline) who was NOT happy. He noted that the airline cannot afford to
route flights around the US, but it would also be a severe strain on the
airline to clear flights with DHS. He noted that this new rule violates
international aviation law, but that the airline has no choice but to
try to comply.

Folks, when the US (Bush) can force something like this on foreign
governments, it has too much power, and is misusing it. I wonder why
this latest antiterror rule was NOT reported by US domestic media, maybe
because this is a bridge too far? Yet another example of the power of
shortwave.


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Newsgroups
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Good .

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/000207.htm

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/002583.php

Yeah,GOOD.I want the list too.I wonder if I am on the NO FLY **** List!?
(actually,I hope so) It doesn't make a **** to me one way or the other,I
never did like flying anyway.I did some flying in some Helicopters in
Vietnam,I didn't like it then either.****!!! flying!
cuhulin

Les the Loser,report Max Power to the authorities.
cuhulin