Knucklehead Smith wrote:

Jim Kelley wrote:

...

Name a place in the universe where the Cesium atom transitions at a
different frequency in that reference frame than it does in our
reference frame, provide the underlying physics to explain it, and
then prove it.

Name me one instance where anyone has achieved taking a cesium atom to
absolute zero ...

No one has ever stuck a themometer in the sun either but we have a
pretty good idea what it would read if we did.

We have absolutely no reason to expect the Cesium atom to act any
differently in another reference frame, and variety of reasons not to
expect to be able to chill it to 0 degrees Kelvin.

ac6xg

Jim Kelley wrote:

...

Jim:

Have you read about the quantum phenomenon(s) which begin when you even
start getting close to absolute zero? I can just imagine attempting
logical measurements ...

Warmest regards,
JS

John Smith I wrote:
Jim Kelley wrote:

...

Jim:

Have you read about the quantum phenomenon(s) which begin when you even
start getting close to absolute zero? I can just imagine attempting
logical measurements ...

Warmest regards,
JS

Jim:

This gives a "glimpse" of what I mean, the above was vague ...

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/phy99194.htm

Regards,
JS

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:56:01 -0800, John Smith I
wrote:
Have you read about the quantum phenomenon(s) which begin when you even
start getting close to absolute zero?

An example of the conflict between show and tell. Surprisingly you
offer to neither show, nor tell what happens... which leaves us with
your statement:

I can just imagine attempting
logical measurements ...

Luckily, those who practice the trade have skipped the part of
imagining and just accomplish it instead.

This gives a "glimpse" of what I mean, the above was vague ...

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/phy99194.htm

Given the reference (a painfully pretentious website with as much
armchair theory offered as in this thread), you must have misspelled
vogue.

The forced argument (a strawman at that) of motion ceasing went out
with fringe topped surries. Now THAT (motion? what motion?) is vague
in the extreme given there are a considerable number of dynamics that
occur at the 0°K atomic scale. Are we suppose that electrons in their
orbits at 1°µK will collapse into the nucleus (permenantly frozen into
inaction) with the final chilling tweak? What a larf!

These akademik arguments only need the added stipulation that you have
to exhibit an absolute zero beer cooler that will hold the temperature
throughout the Super Bowl.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
Are we suppose that electrons in their
orbits at 1°µK will collapse into the nucleus (permenantly frozen into
inaction) with the final chilling tweak?

From: http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html

"Zero-point energy is the energy that remains when all other
energy is removed from a system. This behaviour is demonstrated
by, for example, liquid helium. As the temperature is lowered
to absolute zero, helium remains a liquid, rather than freezing
to a solid, owing to the irremovable zero-point energy of its
atomic motions."
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Jim Kelley wrote:
We have absolutely no reason to expect the Cesium atom to act any
differently in another reference frame, ...

On the contrary, we have every reason to believe it
acted differently before the first super nova. Things
that don't exist generally act differently from things
that do exist.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:04:43 GMT, Cecil Moore not
un-misexpurgated:

Things
that don't exist generally act differently from things
that do exist.

The solution to the missing Weapons of Mass Destruction that failed
making it into another Texan's speech this week. I suppose it got
transliterated into a proposal:
The dead need a better health care system.

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:00:07 -0800, Jim Kelley
quoting Brett:

Name me one instance where anyone has achieved taking a cesium atom to
absolute zero ...

Two Nobel prizes were won for doing this with Rubidium. Some may
recall that I already cited that as the other frequency standard
element (although rarely used as it is inferior to Cesium).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Why is it always some weird, out of the way atom they play with
instead of a main-line, every day used sort of critter?

Krypton. . . Cesium . . . What ever. Why not Oxygen? Carbon?
Even good ol Iron??

Another thing, as it was explained to me, first the electrons are
ghosts to begin with which pop in and out of existence at a whim.
Second, if I had the nucleus of an atom in my hand, and it was the
size of a medium orange, the closest electron would be some where
around 38 miles away. . . `Lots of "Nothing" in between. So, when you
get down to 0 Kelvin, that's where all the shaking around stops, well,
it slows down enough to stop the harmonic vibration, but it also seems
to me that the electrons quit popping in and out of existence then
too. Hence the lack of unbalanced vibration of the missing, counter
balancing electrons. (Much like missing a tire weight at 70 mph on
the freeway or so I would believe.) SO if everything settles down at
0 "K" and starts working properly, why is it so damn hard to achieve?
It seems to me that everything would try to achieve the balancing
point, . . Equilibrium; Being that matter abhors a vacuum to begin
with. There has GOT to be an antagonist stirring the pot somewhere
from behind the scenes!! . . . Gravity?


On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:00:07 -0800, Jim Kelley
wrote:

Knucklehead Smith wrote:

Jim Kelley wrote:

...

Name a place in the universe where the Cesium atom transitions at a
different frequency in that reference frame than it does in our
reference frame, provide the underlying physics to explain it, and
then prove it.

Name me one instance where anyone has achieved taking a cesium atom to
absolute zero ...

No one has ever stuck a themometer in the sun either but we have a
pretty good idea what it would read if we did.

We have absolutely no reason to expect the Cesium atom to act any
differently in another reference frame, and variety of reasons not to
expect to be able to chill it to 0 degrees Kelvin.

ac6xg

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:41:06 -0800, Fred Ferrely wrote:

Krypton. . . Cesium . . . What ever. Why not Oxygen? Carbon?
Even good ol Iron??

Hi Fred,

Couldn't afford it.

Another thing, as it was explained to me, first the electrons are
ghosts to begin with which pop in and out of existence at a whim.

That was some explanation. It raises one of two questions. Did you
understand it? Or did the explainer?

it also seems
to me that the electrons quit popping in and out of existence then
too.

This would seem to pin a no to each question above.

SO if everything settles down at
0 "K" and starts working properly, why is it so damn hard to achieve?

Does a 2 year-old ever settle down? Short of their already being
asleep, why is that so hard to get them to bed?

It seems to me that everything would try to achieve the balancing
point, . . Equilibrium; Being that matter abhors a vacuum to begin
with. There has GOT to be an antagonist stirring the pot somewhere
from behind the scenes!! . . . Gravity?

People do a fairly good job of gumming up the works. Heisenberg
introduced us to the notion that when we bother to look, everything
changes. A pyramid balanced on its point is in an equilibrium, but
that is not the same as it being in its lowest energy state, also an
equilibrium. Not all equals are equal (credit George Orwell).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC