Christopher Cox wrote:
gwatts wrote:

Christopher Cox wrote:

John Smith I wrote:

...

Now the internet challenges code tapping amateurs ...


This has nothing to do with the Internet or code tapping amateurs.

It has to do with some intellectually devoid engineers challenging
the reality of the Nyquist rate and placing a device on the only
radio frequencys that can be naturally propagated through out the
planet.



No, I think the engineers are saying 'It can be done, but it will
interfere...' and the bean counters look at the 'but it will
interfere...' part as the obstacle to overcome (buy off). Engineers
don't call the shots, the lawyers and accountants do. If you want
someone or something to blame, blame the 'any profit is good' mind set
of the greed heads and the politicians who obey their big campaign
contributors.




I apologize for specifying "Engineers" in my previous post, it was not
intentional.

'Engineer' has become a generic term. It's easy to understand why many
different professions tend to be referred to as 'engineers,' it has a
ring of technical competence to it, for now, and that's why it's
co-opted so often.

It is frustrating when fact is trumped by the use of relentless verbiage.

Or by relentless, willful ignorance, like that on the part of the FCC
when it comes to BPL (and a few other services...sigh). The FCC has
become another heavily politicized entity run by party hacks endeavoring
to abrogate the rights of the little people in favor of the almighty,
short-term bottom line.

Don't get me wrong, I think profits are good, but not at any cost and
certainly not at the expense of future generations, expenses economic,
social, environmental...

Sigh,
Galen, W8LNA

Christopher Cox wrote:

...
This has nothing to do with the Internet or code tapping amateurs.

It has to do with some intellectually devoid engineers challenging the
reality of the Nyquist rate and placing a device on the only radio
frequencys that can be naturally propagated through out the planet.

This group will be beaming porn wirelessly throughout the world, what an
accomplishment. They should feel proud!


Chris

The old failed logic recycled one more time; go keep track of who had
licenses before code was dropped ... eat your lotus blossoms--it always
worked before ...

JS

gwatts wrote:

...
No, I think the engineers are saying 'It can be done, but it will
interfere...' and the bean counters look at the 'but it will
interfere...' part as the obstacle to overcome (buy off). Engineers
don't call the shots, the lawyers and accountants do. If you want
someone or something to blame, blame the 'any profit is good' mind set
of the greed heads and the politicians who obey their big campaign
contributors.

I think you got it all wrong ...

Thinking people decided amateur radio could be left as it is, a good ole
boys club of cranky old men communicating at a few WPM ... or, be used
to assist millions in high speed data exchange ... the jet plane
challenges the horse drawn cart.

JS

wrote:

...
When my henry 2k classic and yagi pointed at the power line challenges
BPL...
Hummmm, this could get ugly... No matter what mode I use. BPL is a two
lane highway. I should be as much of a pest them to them, as them to
me..
Two weeks of me, and I'll have the BPL/power company speaking in
tongues if
they ever decide to install that mess around here.
MK


You just don't get the power of digital do you? Or, the laws which will
come ... however, confiscation of that ancient and moth ridden amp and
the fine which will be imposed will be something sane men will wish to
avoid ... I have a 5KW (never run over a calif kilo of input though :-)
)russian amp, its' last days are in sight :-(

JS

Jay in the Mojave wrote:

...
Jay in the Mojave

From all I have seen, nothing is modified, a tap is made and BPL
installed. The power grid stands as before ... however, the system I
looked at was almost entirely underground to businesses and homes.

JS

Jay in the Mojave wrote:
John Smith I wrote:
http://www.redherring.com/Home/22562

JS

Hello John and all:

One of the things that I haven't seen covered about BPL, is the
installation and maintenance costs involved, in a power grid system.

We all know that when a system is modified for something that it wasn't
designed for that problems will surface. I'll bet money that the power
grid system modification and maintenance may be have a significant cost.
That was not totally covered, or audited.


We've all heard the nightmare stories and seen the enforcement actions
taken against Power companies that can't be bothered to fix a broken
insulator, bad ground wire, noisy transformer, or whatever that is
causing havoc to hams nearby. If they do put in BPL, it will be their
very own customers who complain to them. Then they have less of a
choice, assuming they want to keep their BPL customers.

And they still have to run the fiber. Why don't they just try selling
fiber access? Somewhere somehow we got a popular misconception that
there is some sort of magic box at the power generating station that
supplies internet access to the world. It ain't so.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Christopher Cox wrote:
John Smith I wrote:
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

...

It was "your" choice, Google and their BPL, or Ham radio. Which did
you decide?

Geoff.


When the sword challenged the rock, the sword won. When the gun
challenged the sword, the gun won. When the automobile challenged the
horse, the auto won. When the washing machine challenged the
washboard, the machine won. When tubes challenged the spark-gap
xmitter, the tube won. When penicillin challenged herbs, penicillin
won. When the birth control pill challenged the condom, the pill won.

Now the internet challenges code tapping amateurs ...

Regards,
JS

This has nothing to do with the Internet or code tapping amateurs.

It has to do with some intellectually devoid engineers challenging the
reality of the Nyquist rate and placing a device on the only radio
frequencys that can be naturally propagated through out the planet.

It is a political process more than an engineering one. The idea that
you "just" plug into the wall socket for your internet is almost
irresistible to people who don't actually know how things actually work.

Very few things "just" work.



This group will be beaming porn wirelessly throughout the world, what an
accomplishment. They should feel proud!

Oh, BPL will fail, either through pure technical flopping, or the
marketplace moving on. None of the arguments for it hold water. My
favorite is the argument that it will provide internet service for
people in remote areas where they can't get service now. Presumably they
don't have service because there isn't any fiber nearby, where other BB
providers pick up their signals, and distribute them.

All they have to do is run the fiber to these underserved areas. (we
all do know that BPL is a last mile delivery service don't we?) Of
course that means there will be fiber in the area, so the other
providers can come in and beat the pants off of BPL in terms of speed
and reliability.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

wrote:

When my henry 2k classic and yagi pointed at the power line challenges
BPL...
Hummmm, this could get ugly... No matter what mode I use. BPL is a two
lane highway. I should be as much of a pest them to them, as them to
me..

Your Henry and directional antenna would silence a pretty big area, MK.
QRP levels have been able to knock the signals out on occasion, and a
hundred watts in a mobile can keep a lot of people safe from porn.

Note that no intentional interference applies - all perfectly legal
Amateur radio use.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

John Smith I wrote:
Christopher Cox wrote:

...
This has nothing to do with the Internet or code tapping amateurs.

It has to do with some intellectually devoid engineers challenging the
reality of the Nyquist rate and placing a device on the only radio
frequencys that can be naturally propagated through out the planet.

This group will be beaming porn wirelessly throughout the world, what
an accomplishment. They should feel proud!


Chris

The old failed logic recycled one more time; go keep track of who had
licenses before code was dropped ... eat your lotus blossoms--it always
worked before ...

The idea that BPL cam about in order to punish Hams who like Morse code
is a new one.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIa -

Michael Coslo wrote:

...
The idea that BPL cam about in order to punish Hams who like Morse
code is a new one.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIa -

Now, there is the mindset which got us here in the first place, don't
you get it?

Hams are just NOT important enough to justify punishment, they simply
are holding onto a fraction of the public airwaves which can be placed
to much better use ... get real.

JS