Rich Griffiths wrote:
The rovers got us as many 10GHz grids this weekend as the sum total of
the previous 11 contests. And they don't play the games that some of
the east coast "owned" rovers do.

Ssshhhh! That's supposed to be a secret ;-)


An unfortunate smear on the east coast in general, especially since I am
from there. It is well known who the stations/clubs are that get away
with it. I would make a disparaging remark about the blessed League
caring about cheating here, but it would offend the masses.

tom
K0TAR

tom wrote:
Rich Griffiths wrote:
The rovers got us as many 10GHz grids this weekend as the sum total of
the previous 11 contests. And they don't play the games that some of
the east coast "owned" rovers do.

Ssshhhh! That's supposed to be a secret ;-)


An unfortunate smear on the east coast in general, especially since I am
from there. It is well known who the stations/clubs are that get away
with it. I would make a disparaging remark about the blessed League
caring about cheating here, but it would offend the masses.

All contesters cheat except for me and thee....


So if I go roving, and I don't belong to one of these clubs, will they
not talk to me?

And if they are cheating, and it's documented, why hasn't anyone
submitted proof, and get their sorry butts DQ'ed?

Takes lots of people to cheat, those cheating, and those putting up with it.

Sorry for the rant, but as a person who runs a contest, I get many, many
accusations of people or clubs cheating, and precious little to support
that. Most of the time the accuser pops up with great angst, describing
the terrible situation, the nefarious cheaters, and often the complicity
of the contest organizers. Then when pressed for proof, the reply is
usually "Gee, I don't want to start anything!"

Not sayin, I'm just sayin'...

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

On Jun 18, 11:59*am, Michael Coslo wrote:
tom wrote:
Rich Griffiths wrote:
The rovers got us as many 10GHz grids this weekend as the sum total of
the previous 11 contests. *And they don't play the games that some of
the east coast "owned" rovers do.

Ssshhhh! * That's supposed to be a secret *;-)

An unfortunate smear on the east coast in general, especially since I am
from there. *It is well known who the stations/clubs are that get away
with it. *I would make a disparaging remark about the blessed League
caring about cheating here, but it would offend the masses.

* * * * All contesters cheat except for me and thee....

So if I go roving, and I don't belong to one of these clubs, will they
not talk to me?

And if they are cheating, and it's documented, why hasn't anyone
submitted proof, and get their sorry butts DQ'ed?

Takes lots of people to cheat, those cheating, and those putting up with it.

Sorry for the rant, but as a person who runs a contest, I get many, many
accusations of people or clubs cheating, and precious little to support
that. Most of the time the accuser pops up with great angst, describing
the terrible situation, the nefarious cheaters, and often the complicity
of the contest organizers. Then when pressed for proof, the reply is
usually "Gee, I don't want to start anything!"

Not sayin, I'm just sayin'...

* * * * - 73 de Mike N3LI -

Hey, Dark Guard. Long time no hear. I thought you were active on in
misc.survivalism?

Michael Coslo wrote:

All contesters cheat except for me and thee....


So if I go roving, and I don't belong to one of these clubs, will they
not talk to me?

And if they are cheating, and it's documented, why hasn't anyone
submitted proof, and get their sorry butts DQ'ed?

Takes lots of people to cheat, those cheating, and those putting up with
it.

Sorry for the rant, but as a person who runs a contest, I get many, many
accusations of people or clubs cheating, and precious little to support
that. Most of the time the accuser pops up with great angst, describing
the terrible situation, the nefarious cheaters, and often the complicity
of the contest organizers. Then when pressed for proof, the reply is
usually "Gee, I don't want to start anything!"

Not sayin, I'm just sayin'...

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

First, not all contesters cheat. My experience is few VHF and up
contesters cheat.

Second, the rovers are the key to the cheat. Fixed stations love to
work rovers because of the point and grid benefits. The cheating is the
rovers who won't work anyone but the mothership.

Third, it's not documented since no one will publicly admit to it, which
should be obvious. Privately is a different matter.

The cheaters are known. Very well known in some cases.

tom
K0TAR

tom wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:

All contesters cheat except for me and thee....


So if I go roving, and I don't belong to one of these clubs, will they
not talk to me?

And if they are cheating, and it's documented, why hasn't anyone
submitted proof, and get their sorry butts DQ'ed?

Takes lots of people to cheat, those cheating, and those putting up
with it.

Sorry for the rant, but as a person who runs a contest, I get many,
many accusations of people or clubs cheating, and precious little to
support that. Most of the time the accuser pops up with great angst,
describing the terrible situation, the nefarious cheaters, and often
the complicity of the contest organizers. Then when pressed for proof,
the reply is usually "Gee, I don't want to start anything!"

Not sayin, I'm just sayin'...

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

First, not all contesters cheat. My experience is few VHF and up
contesters cheat.

Second, the rovers are the key to the cheat. Fixed stations love to
work rovers because of the point and grid benefits. The cheating is the
rovers who won't work anyone but the mothership.

Third, it's not documented since no one will publicly admit to it, which
should be obvious. Privately is a different matter.

The cheaters are known. Very well known in some cases.

tom
K0TAR

Missed one of your points. The Blessed League runs this contest. No
more comment needed.

tom
K0TAR

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:59:24 -0400, Michael Coslo wrote:

snip
All contesters cheat except for me and thee....


So if I go roving, and I don't belong to one of these clubs, will they
not talk to me?

And if they are cheating, and it's documented, why hasn't anyone
submitted proof, and get their sorry butts DQ'ed?

Takes lots of people to cheat, those cheating, and those putting up with
it.

Sorry for the rant, but as a person who runs a contest, I get many, many
accusations of people or clubs cheating, and precious little to support
that. Most of the time the accuser pops up with great angst, describing
the terrible situation, the nefarious cheaters, and often the complicity
of the contest organizers. Then when pressed for proof, the reply is
usually "Gee, I don't want to start anything!"

Not sayin, I'm just sayin'...

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

We're getting a bit off topic here, but ....

The issue is with "captive" (or "owned", as tom said) rovers who will
communicate only with the fixed club station. The rovers don't get a lot
of benefit from it, but it can really pump up the score of a fixed
station by getting additional grid multipliers.

What documentation may exist is in the hands of the club rovers. Proving
that someone is doing this is well-nigh impossible. I suppose a contest
manager could do it by examining all the rovers' logs he gets. But I
don't expect that would be an easy job. And the contest managers are
supposed to be having some fun too :-)

So I agree that a contest manager needs proof before acting on any
accusation of cheating, but in this case I doubt that he's ever going to
get it. (No comment on other forms of cheating.) Nonetheless, that
doesn't mean that it isn't going on. We just can't do much about it.
And those putting up with it should not be lumped in with those who may
be/are doing it.

I hope the squabbling you're in the middle of doesn't dissuade you,
Mike. Keep on keepin' on. Please.

--
73
Rich W2RG