On Sep 8, 7:31*am, Cecil Moore wrote:
christofire wrote:
Agreed, but c is finite so is there a degree of compressibility or
expansibility below which faster-than-c communication would be possible? ...
or would the whole principle be scuppered by Lorentz contraction?

Years ago, quantum tunneling was reported to have passed
information at faster than the speed of light. I haven't
heard anything about that lately.
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, *http://www.w5dxp.com

I think there are two main avenues of thinking on the phenomenon known
as quantum tunneling being faster than the speed of light. One is
that other dimensions are involved. Data is not traveling faster than
the speed of light, it is just taking a short cut. The other is that
the data was wrong.

Jimmie

Keith Dysart wrote:
On Sep 7, 6:00Â*pm, wrote:
Nope, the energy in both the tube of marbles and the walking stick
travels at the speed of sound in the medium.

What happens when the walking stick is traveling faster than
the speed of sound?

...Keith

It makes a big hole in the old lady's ceiling.

Actually, the energy travels through the building structure at the speed
of sound, not the walking stick, which has energy of momentum until it
hits the ceiling.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 06:57:13 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

I think there are two main avenues of thinking on the phenomenon known
as quantum tunneling being faster than the speed of light.

As quantum tunneling occurs millions to billions of times per second
in every antenna in the world, it would seem that faster-than-light
operation would have been observed by now (something of an oxymoron
there in this irony, isn't it?).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
As quantum tunneling occurs millions to billions of times per second
in every antenna in the world, ...

"For (quantum tunneling) effects to occur there must
be a situation where a thin region of 'medium type 2'
is sandwiched between two regions of 'medium type 1'"

In an aluminum/copper antenna, what exactly makes
up the two medium 1 regions and what exactly makes
up the thin region of medium 2?
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

"tom" wrote
. net...
Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:

For practical engineers the math theory is useless.

But for real engineers math is everything. If you can't back it up with
figures, you're only guessing.

The figures are also in empiric equations. Engineers use only such.
S*

you have obviously never been an engineer... except maybe the type that
drives a train.

"Dave" wrote
...

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

"tom" wrote
. net...
Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:

For practical engineers the math theory is useless.

But for real engineers math is everything. If you can't back it up with
figures, you're only guessing.

The figures are also in empiric equations. Engineers use only such.
S*

you have obviously never been an engineer... except maybe the type that
drives a train.

In this book:
http://books.google.pl/books?id=f3as...age&q=&f=false

no equations, no terms like transversal and so on. Sometimes the Authors
include a math theory. Each math theory has some simplifications. In nature
not separate transverse and longitudinal waves. The math is separate.
Maxwell was the genius. He made the ether model as a solid body. For Him it
was very easy. He also wrote 60 pages of equations for the Saturn rings. He
was also able to write a math for liquid or gas ether. But he lived too
short.

I wanted to know if radio people observe the frequency doubling when
receiving signals from a dipole. It should be easy to check it.
For me is enough to know (from this Group) that such was observed and is
known as the Luxembourg effect.
S*

Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:
In nature not separate transverse and longitudinal waves.

Longitudinal waves require a medium. For many years,
empty space was considered to be empty. We now know
that "empty" space is not empty and has a structure
that teems with quantum particles, i.e. the "aether"
actually exists although not in the conventional
matter form that was earlier assumed.

I wanted to know if radio people observe the frequency doubling when
receiving signals from a dipole.

Frequency doubling can occur in non-linear systems.
Every powered transistor stage has a certain degree
of non-linearity. A passive antenna system is usually
linear.
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
That isn't a cite, that's a formula.

It's a cite from Einstein, et al.


So that's what his middle name is! 8^)

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

"Cecil Moore" wrote
...
Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:
In nature not separate transverse and longitudinal waves.

Longitudinal waves require a medium. For many years,
empty space was considered to be empty. We now know
that "empty" space is not empty and has a structure
that teems with quantum particles, i.e. the "aether"
actually exists although not in the conventional
matter form that was earlier assumed.

Sound waves propagate in conventionall matter form (gas, liquid, solid).
They always have the two components (transverse and longitudinal). In
practice is the full analogy acoustic waves - electric waves.
It is not easy to to describe the aether. But it exists in common term "eter
waves". The ether waves are artifically produced and for this reason we know
more about them. To produce them we do not need to know if they are electric
or EM.
After some time will be clear which vision (Ampere or Heaviside) is in
agreement with practice,

I wanted to know if radio people observe the frequency doubling when
receiving signals from a dipole.

Frequency doubling can occur in non-linear systems.
Every powered transistor stage has a certain degree
of non-linearity. A passive antenna system is usually
linear.

You are saying about frequency changing. Are many ways to decrease a
frequency and a few to increase. Doubling is a special case of increasing.
In the Luxembourg effect no frequency doubling in above sense. All antenas
radiate in complex way. It is also obvious that it radiate from different
parts. That radiation from different parts may be not in phase at the
receiver. They may be in the opposite phase (like for dipoles). Here is the
key. Opposite phase means also the two pulses in one cycle. Each receiver
has its own resonant frequency. In the result long waves were received as
medium waves with the twice more frequency. There were no doubling in your
understanding.
S*

Szczepan Białek wrote:


"Cecil Moore" wrote
...
Szczepan Białek wrote:
In nature not separate transverse and longitudinal waves.

Longitudinal waves require a medium. For many years,
empty space was considered to be empty. We now know
that "empty" space is not empty and has a structure
that teems with quantum particles, i.e. the "aether"
actually exists although not in the conventional
matter form that was earlier assumed.

Sound waves propagate in conventionall matter form (gas, liquid, solid).
They always have the two components (transverse and longitudinal). In
practice is the full analogy acoustic waves - electric waves.

If you are saying that propagation of sound and radio are the same, you'll
have a lot of work to make me believe that.

It is not easy to to describe the aether. But it exists in common term
"eter waves". The ether waves are artifically produced and for this reason
we know more about them. To produce them we do not need to know if they
are electric or EM.
After some time will be clear which vision (Ampere or Heaviside) is in
agreement with practice,

I wanted to know if radio people observe the frequency doubling when
receiving signals from a dipole.

Frequency doubling can occur in non-linear systems.
Every powered transistor stage has a certain degree
of non-linearity. A passive antenna system is usually
linear.

You are saying about frequency changing. Are many ways to decrease a
frequency and a few to increase. Doubling is a special case of increasing.
In the Luxembourg effect no frequency doubling in above sense. All antenas
radiate in complex way. It is also obvious that it radiate from different
parts. That radiation from different parts may be not in phase at the
receiver. They may be in the opposite phase (like for dipoles). Here is
the key. Opposite phase means also the two pulses in one cycle.

You have no understanding about how two signals combine at an antenna.

Each
receiver has its own resonant frequency. In the result long waves were
received as medium waves with the twice more frequency. There were no
doubling in your understanding.

You really need to understand the difference between linear systems
and non-linear systems. Do some reading to understand how two signals
interact in each type of system.

Once you understand the math (yes, it IS important), you may see how cross
modulation occurs.


S*