"Cecil Moore" wrote
...
Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:
In nature not separate transverse and longitudinal waves.

Longitudinal waves require a medium. For many years,
empty space was considered to be empty. We now know
that "empty" space is not empty and has a structure
that teems with quantum particles, i.e. the "aether"
actually exists although not in the conventional
matter form that was earlier assumed.

Sound waves propagate in conventionall matter form (gas, liquid, solid).
They always have the two components (transverse and longitudinal). In
practice is the full analogy acoustic waves - electric waves.
It is not easy to to describe the aether. But it exists in common term "eter
waves". The ether waves are artifically produced and for this reason we know
more about them. To produce them we do not need to know if they are electric
or EM.
After some time will be clear which vision (Ampere or Heaviside) is in
agreement with practice,

I wanted to know if radio people observe the frequency doubling when
receiving signals from a dipole.

Frequency doubling can occur in non-linear systems.
Every powered transistor stage has a certain degree
of non-linearity. A passive antenna system is usually
linear.

You are saying about frequency changing. Are many ways to decrease a
frequency and a few to increase. Doubling is a special case of increasing.
In the Luxembourg effect no frequency doubling in above sense. All antenas
radiate in complex way. It is also obvious that it radiate from different
parts. That radiation from different parts may be not in phase at the
receiver. They may be in the opposite phase (like for dipoles). Here is the
key. Opposite phase means also the two pulses in one cycle. Each receiver
has its own resonant frequency. In the result long waves were received as
medium waves with the twice more frequency. There were no doubling in your
understanding.
S*

Szczepan Białek wrote:


"Cecil Moore" wrote
...
Szczepan Białek wrote:
In nature not separate transverse and longitudinal waves.

Longitudinal waves require a medium. For many years,
empty space was considered to be empty. We now know
that "empty" space is not empty and has a structure
that teems with quantum particles, i.e. the "aether"
actually exists although not in the conventional
matter form that was earlier assumed.

Sound waves propagate in conventionall matter form (gas, liquid, solid).
They always have the two components (transverse and longitudinal). In
practice is the full analogy acoustic waves - electric waves.

If you are saying that propagation of sound and radio are the same, you'll
have a lot of work to make me believe that.

It is not easy to to describe the aether. But it exists in common term
"eter waves". The ether waves are artifically produced and for this reason
we know more about them. To produce them we do not need to know if they
are electric or EM.
After some time will be clear which vision (Ampere or Heaviside) is in
agreement with practice,

I wanted to know if radio people observe the frequency doubling when
receiving signals from a dipole.

Frequency doubling can occur in non-linear systems.
Every powered transistor stage has a certain degree
of non-linearity. A passive antenna system is usually
linear.

You are saying about frequency changing. Are many ways to decrease a
frequency and a few to increase. Doubling is a special case of increasing.
In the Luxembourg effect no frequency doubling in above sense. All antenas
radiate in complex way. It is also obvious that it radiate from different
parts. That radiation from different parts may be not in phase at the
receiver. They may be in the opposite phase (like for dipoles). Here is
the key. Opposite phase means also the two pulses in one cycle.

You have no understanding about how two signals combine at an antenna.

Each
receiver has its own resonant frequency. In the result long waves were
received as medium waves with the twice more frequency. There were no
doubling in your understanding.

You really need to understand the difference between linear systems
and non-linear systems. Do some reading to understand how two signals
interact in each type of system.

Once you understand the math (yes, it IS important), you may see how cross
modulation occurs.


S*

"joe" ...
Szczepan Białek wrote:


"Cecil Moore" wrote
...
Szczepan Białek wrote:
In nature not separate transverse and longitudinal waves.

Longitudinal waves require a medium. For many years,
empty space was considered to be empty. We now know
that "empty" space is not empty and has a structure
that teems with quantum particles, i.e. the "aether"
actually exists although not in the conventional
matter form that was earlier assumed.

Sound waves propagate in conventionall matter form (gas, liquid, solid).
They always have the two components (transverse and longitudinal). In
practice is the full analogy acoustic waves - electric waves.

If you are saying that propagation of sound and radio are the same, you'll
have a lot of work to make me believe that.

Let us start then. Do you know a phenomenon which is not common?

It is not easy to to describe the aether. But it exists in common term
"eter waves". The ether waves are artifically produced and for this
reason
we know more about them. To produce them we do not need to know if they
are electric or EM.
After some time will be clear which vision (Ampere or Heaviside) is in
agreement with practice,

I wanted to know if radio people observe the frequency doubling when
receiving signals from a dipole.

Frequency doubling can occur in non-linear systems.
Every powered transistor stage has a certain degree
of non-linearity. A passive antenna system is usually
linear.

You are saying about frequency changing. Are many ways to decrease a
frequency and a few to increase. Doubling is a special case of
increasing.
In the Luxembourg effect no frequency doubling in above sense. All
antenas
radiate in complex way. It is also obvious that it radiate from different
parts. That radiation from different parts may be not in phase at the
receiver. They may be in the opposite phase (like for dipoles). Here is
the key. Opposite phase means also the two pulses in one cycle.

You have no understanding about how two signals combine at an antenna.

Each
receiver has its own resonant frequency. In the result long waves were
received as medium waves with the twice more frequency. There were no
doubling in your understanding.

You really need to understand the difference between linear systems
and non-linear systems. Do some reading to understand how two signals
interact in each type of system.

Once you understand the math (yes, it IS important), you may see how cross
modulation occurs.

Now no math for electrons. All is for incompressible massless fluid.
S*


S*

"Szczepan Bia³ek" wrote in message
...

"joe" ...
Szczepan Białek wrote:


"Cecil Moore" wrote
...
Szczepan Białek wrote:
In nature not separate transverse and longitudinal waves.

Longitudinal waves require a medium. For many years,
empty space was considered to be empty. We now know
that "empty" space is not empty and has a structure
that teems with quantum particles, i.e. the "aether"
actually exists although not in the conventional
matter form that was earlier assumed.

Sound waves propagate in conventionall matter form (gas, liquid, solid).
They always have the two components (transverse and longitudinal). In
practice is the full analogy acoustic waves - electric waves.

If you are saying that propagation of sound and radio are the same,
you'll
have a lot of work to make me believe that.

Let us start then. Do you know a phenomenon which is not common?


* Polarisation, of course!

I suppose you're going to tell us now that sound waves are polarised!

Chris

"christofire" wrote
...

"Szczepan Bia³ek" wrote in message
...


Sound waves propagate in conventionall matter form (gas, liquid,
solid).
They always have the two components (transverse and longitudinal). In
practice is the full analogy acoustic waves - electric waves.

If you are saying that propagation of sound and radio are the same,
you'll
have a lot of work to make me believe that.

Let us start then. Do you know a phenomenon which is not common?


* Polarisation, of course!

I suppose you're going to tell us now that sound waves are polarised!

And you tell us that radiation from monopoles antennas is polarised.
There was a topic polarisation. In wave area is term alignment when we have
the two sources. Aligment of "dipoles" not means that waves are
"transverse".
In the reality no transverse waves. Waves appear in compressible medium. All
waves are the "pressure" waves. In math you can assume incompressibility.
But we here NO.
S*


Chris

"Szczepan Bia³ek" wrote in message
...

"christofire" wrote
...

"Szczepan Bia³ek" wrote in message
...


Sound waves propagate in conventionall matter form (gas, liquid,
solid).
They always have the two components (transverse and longitudinal). In
practice is the full analogy acoustic waves - electric waves.

If you are saying that propagation of sound and radio are the same,
you'll
have a lot of work to make me believe that.

Let us start then. Do you know a phenomenon which is not common?


* Polarisation, of course!

I suppose you're going to tell us now that sound waves are polarised!

And you tell us that radiation from monopoles antennas is polarised.
There was a topic polarisation. In wave area is term alignment when we
have the two sources. Aligment of "dipoles" not means that waves are
"transverse".
In the reality no transverse waves. Waves appear in compressible medium.
All waves are the "pressure" waves. In math you can assume
incompressibility. But we here NO.
S*


Chris



Google turns up 44,200 hits for monopole antenna polarization - I was pretty
sure my monopole radiated polarized 'waves'.

Dave

"Dave Holford" wrote
...


Google turns up 44,200 hits for monopole antenna polarization - I was
pretty sure my monopole radiated polarized 'waves'.

If monopole radiate from wire (many sources in line) without tipping there
is a pseudo-polarization.
For this reason tipping is sometimes used.
S*

Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:

And you tell us that radiation from monopoles antennas is polarised.
There was a topic polarisation. In wave area is term alignment when we
have the two sources. Aligment of "dipoles" not means that waves are
"transverse".
In the reality no transverse waves. Waves appear in compressible medium.
All waves are the "pressure" waves. In math you can assume
incompressibility. But we here NO.
S*

So, pray tell, explain the physics of a vertically polarized pressure wave.

You obviously know what's going on here, and I do not. Please educate me.

tom
K0TAR

tom wrote:

So, pray tell, explain the physics of a vertically polarized pressure wave.

You obviously know what's going on here, and I do not. Please educate me.

Sigh - Tom, there is not often the need to be sarcastic when you are
correct! 8^)

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

"tom" wrote
. net...
Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:

And you tell us that radiation from monopoles antennas is polarised.
There was a topic polarisation. In wave area is term alignment when we
have the two sources. Aligment of "dipoles" not means that waves are
"transverse".
In the reality no transverse waves. Waves appear in compressible medium.
All waves are the "pressure" waves. In math you can assume
incompressibility. But we here NO.
S*

So, pray tell, explain the physics of a vertically polarized pressure
wave.

One wave is not polarised. The two pressure waves from the two sources
interfere. See "Directivity and phasing".

You obviously know what's going on here, and I do not. Please educate me.

"This fourth edition blends, in Joseph J. Carr's words, "the theoretical
concepts that the engineers and others need to design practical antennas,
and the hard-learned practical lessons derived from actually building and
using antennas -real antennas, and the hard-earned practical lessons derived
from actually building and using antennas - real antennas made of real
metal - not merely theoretical constructs on a blackboard."

Now is the electronic era. Electronic is from electrons. They are
compressible and have the inertia. You all construct antennas where
electrons build up voltage. But on the blackboard are math for
incompressible fluid. Look at the famous equations - there no voltage at all
(only current).
If somebody do math for electrons then such math will be on the blackboards.
But it is not necessary. The beautifull EM equations are the same like for
fluid mechanics. They will be saved. Radio engineers do not use them and can
wait for the proper ones the next centuries.
S*