"John Gilmer" wrote in message
net...
Hi:

A month or so ago I say a PBS piece on fractals. The piece claimed that
the "technology" is used to make the antennas for cell phones.

Have any amateurs used "fractal technology" to form their antennas?

Also, I note that "they" market HDTV antennas that are about the size of a
book. Do these things work? What's inside them?

Yours,

JLG


Heh heh....just sitting here recalling the GFW (Great Fractal War) on this
newsgroup a few years ago.
Where is Chip when we need him

Wow. Been a while. Last time I saw or wrote anything here about fractals was
over ten years ago, and someone in the group threatened to sue me/everyone
who was not a supporter of the technology.

I do know that I have seen mention of this technology relative to hand held
ATSC receivers for mobile video (cel phones, etc)

GeorgeC


"John Gilmer" wrote in message
net...
Hi:

A month or so ago I say a PBS piece on fractals. The piece claimed that
the "technology" is used to make the antennas for cell phones.

Have any amateurs used "fractal technology" to form their antennas?

Also, I note that "they" market HDTV antennas that are about the size of a
book. Do these things work? What's inside them?

Yours,

JLG

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 00:46:28 -0400, "John Gilmer"
wrote:

A month or so ago I say a PBS piece on fractals. The piece claimed that
the "technology" is used to make the antennas for cell phones.

Yep. The advantages of fractal antennas are small size and wide
bandwidth. These are the prime requirements for cramming an antenna
inside a tiny cell phone. Making it work for 800/1900Mhz cellular,
2.4GHz Bluegoof and Wi-Fi, and possibly for TV, FM, WiMax, etc, is not
easy.

Have any amateurs used "fractal technology" to form their antennas?

Not intentionally, although many antennas (and towers) somewhat
resemble a fractal, especially when they crash to the ground. Same
with some "low visual impact" cell towers. To the best of my
knowledge, hams are not cramming broadband radios into packages the
size of cell phones.

Also, I note that "they" market HDTV antennas that are about the size of a
book. Do these things work? What's inside them?

Sure. So do rabbit ears, clip leads, and coat hangers. If you're in
a strong signal area, almost anything will work, including a fractal
antenna. However, if you're in a weak signal area, or are plagued by
reflections, the more traditional designs are more useful.

(Disclaimer: I've never built a fractal antenna).


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:43:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Myth number one:
Yep. The advantages of fractal antennas are small size and wide
bandwidth.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:43:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Myth number one:
Yep. The advantages of fractal antennas are small size and wide
bandwidth.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

It's not entirely a myth -- fractal antennas can be small and have wide
bandwidth. But my dummy load is small and has wide bandwidth. What makes
that an "advantage"?

You can take this to the bank: Small -- Broadband -- Efficient. Pick any
two.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

John Gilmer wrote:
Hi:

A month or so ago I say a PBS piece on fractals. The piece claimed that
the "technology" is used to make the antennas for cell phones.

Have any amateurs used "fractal technology" to form their antennas?

I recall a 10 meter fractal antenna. Strange looking thing. Disappeared
some time ago from the web.

It's interesting that they call fractals "technology". Any of us could
generate a usable fractal, and form some wire along that pattern, and
make something. "Fractal" is no more technology than is "dipole".

There is a fellow who used to post here who has a company that makes
such antennas. When I first came to this group, there was a war winding
down. I never had any problems with the guy, but whoeeee the arguments
were running hot.

But on the antennas themselves, they work, but they are not a substitute
for a lot of other high performance antennas. All antennas are
compromises, and Fractal ones are all about getting an antenna into a
small space. The are mostly UHF also. That ten meter antenna was the
exception, not the rule. HF? Imagine a 160 meter Fractal. No matter how
it's done, it's still going to be big. If you have a small box running
at UHF, you might think about putting a fractal (or it's cousin, a small
random pattern antenna) in it. But if you want to run 80 meters in a
small yard, there are better ways of doing it.

Also, I note that "they" market HDTV antennas that are about the size of a
book. Do these things work? What's inside them?

Define work. 8^) *Real* close to the stations? then probably. As for
what's inside, if there was any design at all, probably a dipole cut for
the approximate frequency. But that's a guess. IMO they are a wast of money.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:31:22 -0400, Michael Coslo
wrote:

I recall a 10 meter fractal antenna. Strange looking thing. Disappeared
some time ago from the web.

Same page for ten years now:
http://www.qsl.net/kb7qhc/antenna/fr...sket/index.htm

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:31:22 -0400, Michael Coslo
wrote:

I recall a 10 meter fractal antenna. Strange looking thing. Disappeared
some time ago from the web.

Same page for ten years now:
http://www.qsl.net/kb7qhc/antenna/fr...sket/index.htm

Ahh, I didn't know about your page. The one I was thinking about had an
actual picture and construction ideas.

So you're in the Puget Sound area? I used to stay in Poulsbo fairly
often. Spent some evenings at the "Sons of Norway" club there. Coslo is
a good old Norwegian name! 8^)



- 73 d eMike N3LI -

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:26:54 -0400, Michael Coslo
wrote:
So you're in the Puget Sound area? I used to stay in Poulsbo fairly
often. Spent some evenings at the "Sons of Norway" club there. Coslo is
a good old Norwegian name! 8^)

So howcum you missed the Norwegian independance day parade here in
Ballard? Largest one outside of Norway.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:26:54 -0400, Michael Coslo
wrote:
So you're in the Puget Sound area? I used to stay in Poulsbo fairly
often. Spent some evenings at the "Sons of Norway" club there. Coslo is
a good old Norwegian name! 8^)

So howcum you missed the Norwegian independance day parade here in
Ballard? Largest one outside of Norway.


Oh, being in PA kinda limits my access. My Sons of Norway exposure was
mostly because a relative was a member. I really liked those folks
though. Garrison Keillor just about has them pegged - although the folks
I was around liked to party a bit more.

My favorite story from those days is how when I first meet a Norwegian,
they would tell you in a couple minutes if they like you or not. If they
like you, they next thing they do is buy you a drink. I eventually told
my father in law (the member) that we had to limit my meeting more
people to the weekends, or no more than 2 an evening.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -