"Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

All time the electrons flow to or from the ground.


Hello Szczepan.

No, the earth doesn't act as a surface of a capacitor. Capacitors will
self-discharge even when they aren't connected to any circuit.

My answer was to Sal. He wrote: "(Last year, I used a 20m dipole at 30
feet, operating out of my van.
Everything floated above ground without incident and many QSOs.)"

The floor of the van is the plate and the surface of the Earth is the second
plate.
S*

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

No, the earth doesn't act as a surface of a capacitor. Capacitors will
self-discharge even when they aren't connected to any circuit.

My answer was to Sal. He wrote: "(Last year, I used a 20m dipole at 30
feet, operating out of my van.
Everything floated above ground without incident and many QSOs.)"

The floor of the van is the plate and the surface of the Earth is the
second plate.
S*

Thanks, Szczepan . That made me smile. I'm sure you will find sites on the
web that will help you to understand capacitors.

Have a nice day. Ian.

On Monday, June 25, 2012 2:23:22 AM UTC-5, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
The floor of the van is the plate and the surface of the Earth is the second
plate.

How about the capacitors and antennas on Voyager I and II which are still operating at the edge of the solar system?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

"W5DXP" wrote in message
...
On Monday, June 25, 2012 2:23:22 AM UTC-5, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
The floor of the van is the plate and the surface of the Earth is the
second
plate.

How about the capacitors and antennas on Voyager I and II which are still
operating at the edge of the solar system?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Hello Cecil. Do you suppose that we can regard Uranus or Pluto as a
replacement Earth?
Pity they didn't want a volunteer to be the crew of a Voyager. We could have
suggested someone ...

73, Ian.

On 6/25/2012 8:12 AM, W5DXP wrote:
On Monday, June 25, 2012 2:23:22 AM UTC-5, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
The floor of the van is the plate and the surface of the Earth is the second
plate.

How about the capacitors and antennas on Voyager I and II which are still operating at the edge of the solar system?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

You see the Voyager I and II use their metal structure as one plate of
a capacitor connecting to earth. The space between is the dielectric,
just like the floor of the van. Some day when Voyager I passes another
solar system, The space between earth and Voyager making up the
dielectric will be light years wide. Without earth there could be no
radio communications anywhere else in the universe.

Plato, the Greek scientist stated very clearly that the earth was the
centre of the universe. Cecil, surely you would not presume to question
the works of a great scientist like Plato.

Michael

:-)

"Boomer" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On 6/25/2012 8:12 AM, W5DXP wrote:
On Monday, June 25, 2012 2:23:22 AM UTC-5, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
The floor of the van is the plate and the surface of the Earth is the
second
plate.

How about the capacitors and antennas on Voyager I and II which are still
operating at the edge of the solar system?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

You see the Voyager I and II use their metal structure as one plate of a
capacitor connecting to earth. The space between is the dielectric,

The dielectric is in the textbooks. In real space is the rare plazma
(conductor).
" Since plasmas contain equal numbers of electrons and ions, they are
electrically neutral overall and thus electric fields play a lesser
dynamical role. Because plasmas are highly conductive, any charge imbalances
are readily neutralised."

"Norwegian explorer and physicist Kristian Birkeland may have been the first
to predict that space is filled with plasma. He wrote in 1913: "It seems to
be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of
space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. We
have assumed that each stellar system in evolutions throws off electric
corpuscles into space. It does not seem unreasonable therefore to think that
the greater part of the material masses in the universe is found, not in the
solar systems or nebulae, but in "empty" space."[1]["
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophysical_plasma
S*

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...


"Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

All time the electrons flow to or from the ground.


Hello Szczepan.

No, the earth doesn't act as a surface of a capacitor. Capacitors will
self-discharge even when they aren't connected to any circuit.

# My answer was to Sal. He wrote: "(Last year, I used a 20m dipole at 30
# feet, operating out of my van.
# Everything floated above ground without incident and many QSOs.)"

# The floor of the van is the plate and the surface of the Earth is the
second
# plate.
# S*

Just as a mental exercise, assume that the entire setup...van and antenna,
is transported to a place in space where there is negligible capacitance to
the earth.

Is it your contention that the setup would operate any differently?

"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
...


"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...


# My answer was to Sal. He wrote: "(Last year, I used a 20m dipole at 30
# feet, operating out of my van.
# Everything floated above ground without incident and many QSOs.)"

# The floor of the van is the plate and the surface of the Earth is the
second
# plate.
# S*

Just as a mental exercise, assume that the entire setup...van and antenna,
is transported to a place in space where there is negligible capacitance
to the earth.

Is it your contention that the setup would operate any differently?

The Earth is in the space and the entire setup also.
The both need "neutralization" like the space-vehicle:
"Other proposed applications of large-area field emission sources[39]
include microwave generation, space-vehicle neutralization"
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_electron_emission

" Where the electrons are compacted the electrons tend to push each other
off. Where there
is a deficit of electrons, electrons are attracted from other sources".

In space is the Solar wind (ions and electrons).
S*

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...
Just as a mental exercise, assume that the entire setup...van and
antenna,
is transported to a place in space where there is negligible capacitance
to the earth.

Is it your contention that the setup would operate any differently?

The Earth is in the space and the entire setup also.
The both need "neutralization" like the space-vehicle:
"Other proposed applications of large-area field emission sources[39]
include microwave generation, space-vehicle neutralization"
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_electron_emission

" Where the electrons are compacted the electrons tend to push each other
off. Where there
is a deficit of electrons, electrons are attracted from other sources".

In space is the Solar wind (ions and electrons).
S*

To continue quoting from the Wiki article: ' In these devices, a high
density of individual field emission sites is created on a substrate
(originally silicon). This research area became known, first as "vacuum
microelectronics", now as "vacuum nanoelectronics" '.
Micro/nanoelectronics? I think we've discussed ths before on this newsgroup.
Is Szczepan saying that we need to earth the Earth? Doesn't that short out
everything?
I'd rate this thread "Four stars out of five. Highly entertaining and
amusing. I await the sequel".
Perhaps we've already had the sequel - was it Archimedes who said "Give me a
place to stand and with a lever I will move the whole world". I guess that
Szczepan would agree with that one.

Regards to all, Ian.

On Monday, June 25, 2012 12:18:08 PM UTC-5, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
In space is the Solar wind (ions and electrons).

If electrons permeated space, all planets would be at the same electric potential but we know they are not. How do you explain that?