"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:01:09 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:

We live in a society. This has obvious benefits, but it also demands
some responsibilities. One of those responsibilites is to make sure
everyone has a reasonable opportunity to succeed and not become a
burden on our society.

If one goes to school, gets an education, promotes that education by
further schooling, aggressively seeks employment, maintains that
employment showing a commitment to the employer and his business,
then he's is not being a burden on society. That opportunity is there
for almost everyone, they have to "want" it, not expect it.

That's called personal responsibility. It's at the core of the
conservative mantra.



But because there are racist attitudes among
many employers, there are fewer opportunities for people of other
races. It then becomes the responsibility of everyone else to pick up
the slack left by the racists. That's why we have affirmative action.


I don't believe that's prevalent anymore. If we were in the 50's, 60's
& even the early 70's I would say yes, but I feel it's not the case now.

I never see racism in my daily conduction of business. We employ all
sorts of diverse ethnic people. Nobody even thinks about it.

Oh it's out there Dave, it's just not as bad or prevalent as it was.


In fact, when I see some of the older members of my family and they
let out a racially insensitive comment, it makes me cringe.

But there are people of recognized minority status who "play" the
system. The problem is that when the majority tries to open up dialog
to address this subject, they are shouted down and demonized by the
opposition by calling the discussions "racist", "sexist", or
"xenophobic". I applaud Bill Cosby for speaking out and highlighting
many of the problems which are affecting the black community. Maybe
coming from one of their own, the dialog might stand a better chance
of happening.


Yup, that's true too, but again, it's a mind set that was caused because
of the large amount of racism, a long time ago.

So don't blame the government and don't blame people "of color". Blame
Canada..... (hehe, just kidding).

Nope, don't blame them, but do blame Canada

You're such a hoser! Take off eh?


The problem originates with racist
attitudes which have been around for quite a while and aren't going
away anytime soon.

Those will always be around, affirmative action or not, but again
I feel that's far & few in between.

By cooperating with Affirmative Action you are
shouldering the responsibilities that are shirked by racist employers,
and for that you should be commended -- after all, nobody is forcing
you to do business with Issaquah, are they?

If my business is with them, why must I be forced to "not" do business
with them? Because my company has 12 employee's, all qualified to
do the job, but none are of "color" or just one person, so that's not
enough.
My last job I was a manager, I did the hiring & firing and to me I
didn't
care what color you were, just so you did the job & did it well. That
attitude is the same where I'm at now.

That is the only criteria that should be considered IMHO.

We have people of color, women working there. I remember a person
of color hired and was asked to take the owners truck over to the car wash
and have them wash it. He refused and said it was a job that degraded him.

And some wonder why many minority people are still falling short in
the wealth category........
I LOL!!! I had done that very same job a dozen times, among many others
when I first started there, I didn't care, just as long as I was paid.

It has lot to do with attitude, people have become complacent and
started
to live off of welfare, SSI, disability etc. Those programs were only
meant
as
a crutch, but have grown into basically an income for those that don't
want
to
work (I saw it for years when working in SF). Some truly need those
programs
and don't abuse them, but more than not abuse it and almost never have to
work
because people like you & I support them with "our" hard earned taxes.


And you can thank the liberals for creating the "entitlement"
generation...


Dave. Both sides of the spectrum play the game, Demo's
play that side a little harder. Liberals & conservatives keep
the country from swinging one way or the other politically.

Your tax dollars NOT at work........

Dave
"Sandbagger"

Landshark


--
__
o /' )
/' ( ,
__/' ) .' `;
o _.-~~~~' ``---..__ .' ;
_.--' b) LANDSHARK ``--...____. .'
( _. )). `-._
`\|\|\|\|)-.....___.- `-. __...--'-.'.
`---......____...---`.___.'----... .' `.;
`-` `

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 14:56:45 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:01:09 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:

We live in a society. This has obvious benefits, but it also demands
some responsibilities. One of those responsibilites is to make sure
everyone has a reasonable opportunity to succeed and not become a
burden on our society.

If one goes to school, gets an education, promotes that education by
further schooling, aggressively seeks employment, maintains that
employment showing a commitment to the employer and his business,
then he's is not being a burden on society. That opportunity is there
for almost everyone, they have to "want" it, not expect it.

That's called personal responsibility. It's at the core of the
conservative mantra.



But because there are racist attitudes among
many employers, there are fewer opportunities for people of other
races. It then becomes the responsibility of everyone else to pick up
the slack left by the racists. That's why we have affirmative action.


I don't believe that's prevalent anymore. If we were in the 50's, 60's
& even the early 70's I would say yes, but I feel it's not the case now.

I never see racism in my daily conduction of business. We employ all
sorts of diverse ethnic people. Nobody even thinks about it.

Oh it's out there Dave, it's just not as bad or prevalent as it was.

No argument. But the fact that's it's disappeared from the workplace
in my conduction of business, certainly means that it's not as bad as
it used to be, or that some people think it is.


In fact, when I see some of the older members of my family and they
let out a racially insensitive comment, it makes me cringe.

But there are people of recognized minority status who "play" the
system. The problem is that when the majority tries to open up dialog
to address this subject, they are shouted down and demonized by the
opposition by calling the discussions "racist", "sexist", or
"xenophobic". I applaud Bill Cosby for speaking out and highlighting
many of the problems which are affecting the black community. Maybe
coming from one of their own, the dialog might stand a better chance
of happening.


Yup, that's true too, but again, it's a mind set that was caused because
of the large amount of racism, a long time ago.

So don't blame the government and don't blame people "of color". Blame
Canada..... (hehe, just kidding).

Nope, don't blame them, but do blame Canada

You're such a hoser! Take off eh?


The problem originates with racist
attitudes which have been around for quite a while and aren't going
away anytime soon.

Those will always be around, affirmative action or not, but again
I feel that's far & few in between.

By cooperating with Affirmative Action you are
shouldering the responsibilities that are shirked by racist employers,
and for that you should be commended -- after all, nobody is forcing
you to do business with Issaquah, are they?

If my business is with them, why must I be forced to "not" do business
with them? Because my company has 12 employee's, all qualified to
do the job, but none are of "color" or just one person, so that's not
enough.
My last job I was a manager, I did the hiring & firing and to me I
didn't
care what color you were, just so you did the job & did it well. That
attitude is the same where I'm at now.

That is the only criteria that should be considered IMHO.

We have people of color, women working there. I remember a person
of color hired and was asked to take the owners truck over to the car wash
and have them wash it. He refused and said it was a job that degraded him.

And some wonder why many minority people are still falling short in
the wealth category........
I LOL!!! I had done that very same job a dozen times, among many others
when I first started there, I didn't care, just as long as I was paid.

It has lot to do with attitude, people have become complacent and
started
to live off of welfare, SSI, disability etc. Those programs were only
meant
as
a crutch, but have grown into basically an income for those that don't
want
to
work (I saw it for years when working in SF). Some truly need those
programs
and don't abuse them, but more than not abuse it and almost never have to
work
because people like you & I support them with "our" hard earned taxes.


And you can thank the liberals for creating the "entitlement"
generation...


Dave. Both sides of the spectrum play the game, Demo's
play that side a little harder. Liberals & conservatives keep
the country from swinging one way or the other politically.

It's true that both sides have their respective agendas, but core
conservative beliefs tend to lean toward those of personal
responsibility, less government intrusion in our lives, and the
maximization of capitalism. This is a great system for the Donald
Trump types in the world with type "A" personalities, who are
go-getters, and will make a buck any way they can. It's no so great
for those who aren't motivated to do what needs to be done to get
ahead in life.

Liberals are "the great protectors". They are the ones who want to use
the government to do what individual charity already does, only extend
it. The more you offer aid and comfort to people who are otherwise
able bodied, the less incentive they have to work on their own. And
the less they value what they achieve.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 14:56:45 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
. ..

I never see racism in my daily conduction of business. We employ all
sorts of diverse ethnic people. Nobody even thinks about it.

Oh it's out there Dave, it's just not as bad or prevalent as it was.

No argument. But the fact that's it's disappeared from the workplace
in my conduction of business, certainly means that it's not as bad as
it used to be, or that some people think it is.


Well I'm sure it's still active in some area's and probably
outright too. But overall, in major city and urban area's
it's not the case.


Dave. Both sides of the spectrum play the game, Demo's
play that side a little harder. Liberals & conservatives keep
the country from swinging one way or the other politically.

It's true that both sides have their respective agendas, but core
conservative beliefs tend to lean toward those of personal
responsibility, less government intrusion in our lives, and the
maximization of capitalism. This is a great system for the Donald
Trump types in the world with type "A" personalities, who are
go-getters, and will make a buck any way they can. It's no so great
for those who aren't motivated to do what needs to be done to get
ahead in life.

Liberals are "the great protectors". They are the ones who want to use
the government to do what individual charity already does, only extend
it. The more you offer aid and comfort to people who are otherwise
able bodied, the less incentive they have to work on their own. And
the less they value what they achieve.


Well as it's been said, those are your beliefs, more power to you.
I personally believe without both sides, if one party has total
power over the other, it would be an ugly thing.



Dave
"Sandbagger"

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:02:22 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 14:56:45 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...

I never see racism in my daily conduction of business. We employ all
sorts of diverse ethnic people. Nobody even thinks about it.

Oh it's out there Dave, it's just not as bad or prevalent as it was.

No argument. But the fact that's it's disappeared from the workplace
in my conduction of business, certainly means that it's not as bad as
it used to be, or that some people think it is.


Well I'm sure it's still active in some area's and probably
outright too. But overall, in major city and urban area's
it's not the case.

Well sure. Some people also hide it better. But it appears that we're
heading in the right direction.

Dave. Both sides of the spectrum play the game, Demo's
play that side a little harder. Liberals & conservatives keep
the country from swinging one way or the other politically.

It's true that both sides have their respective agendas, but core
conservative beliefs tend to lean toward those of personal
responsibility, less government intrusion in our lives, and the
maximization of capitalism. This is a great system for the Donald
Trump types in the world with type "A" personalities, who are
go-getters, and will make a buck any way they can. It's no so great
for those who aren't motivated to do what needs to be done to get
ahead in life.

Liberals are "the great protectors". They are the ones who want to use
the government to do what individual charity already does, only extend
it. The more you offer aid and comfort to people who are otherwise
able bodied, the less incentive they have to work on their own. And
the less they value what they achieve.


Well as it's been said, those are your beliefs, more power to you.
I personally believe without both sides, if one party has total
power over the other, it would be an ugly thing.

Yes, it would. If, for no other reason, having two diametrically
opposed political ideologies provides perspective. I doubt is there is
a single person who is either 100% liberal or conservative. Most of us
pick and choose certain parts of each "a la carte" to add to their own
beliefs. The majority of those determines our overall slant.

Dave
"Sandbagger"