"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the
tests! I personally have no use for that!


Good point, and I agree. If we are going to have incredibly difficult
satellite questions on the Extra written exam, like the following verbatim
example.....

Q: Which of the following types of communications may space stations
transmit?

A. Automatic retransmission of signals from Earth stations and other space
stations
B. One-way communications
C. Telemetry consisting of specially coded messages
D. All of these choices are correct

.....then there ought to be similarly incredibly difficult CW questions on
the Extra written exam, like:

Q: Which of the following alphanumeric characters corresponds to the Morse
sound "di-dah"

A. A
B. B
C. C
D. All of these choices are correct

After all, fair is fair, and the CW mode ought to have test questions just
like all other modes. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'll bet you like those schools where the students determine the curriculum!

Not at all Mike. You've persuaded me that there ought to be test questions for
Morse just like there are test questions for each other mode. We seem to be in
complete agreement on the matter.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...

cl wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...

cl wrote:



[snip]

I disagree. It took a great effort.


What is a great effort? Many times it is a matter of perspective.
In other
words what we expect versus reality may make something seem like a
"great
effort."

It took a big bite out of my life when I should have been paying
attention to other things. But I wanted it, so...

For some - it may! One argument I've heard, is that those
musically
inclined
pick it up quicker than others, yet I knew some who "were"
musically
inclined and claimed to have a hell of a time with it. Reason? I
don't know.
I can't get inside their head.

Steve can. He can even have them incarcerated with a simple phone
calls.

The biggest problem with most is "laziness".

Was that your problem? If you hadn't been so lazy you could
have
learned the code in under a week?

Eh - I had the code down in 2 weeks for the Novice exam. AND I'm
now
an
Extra. Been licensed since the early 80s.
Yeah, I probably could have learned it in under a week, if I
pushed
myself.

That wasn't my point. My point is that everyone is different, and
the
length of time it takes to learn 5WPM varies greatly. The time it
takes to learn 20WPM could be lifetimes. Not everyone is even
capable
of 13WPM.


Check out the book "The Art and Skill of Radiotelegraphy." Basically
anyone
without a handicap can master 20wpm with the proper training tools if
they
are truly motivated to do so. Keep in mind that we all talk faster
than
that. We even talk faster than that when we spell out words
phonetically!

When the ARRL advocates telepathy, I'll pay attention. Communication
at the speed of thought!

Most anyone will tell you - it isn't good to do such. Besides, at
that time,
I was chasing rug rats - so study time was premium.

I've been told that is absolutely no excuse. Nothing in your
personal
or professional life can be more important than learning the code.


No one has ever said that.

You're wrong. Larry Roll said that. Many of our regulars either
backed him up or were silent.

"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


When the ARRL advocates telepathy, I'll pay attention. Communication
at the speed of thought!


Start practicing now, Brian, 30 minutes a day, and you'll be up to 5 WPM in just
a few weeks!

73, de Hans, K0HB

K=D8HB wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

We each must choose our activities based on our personal
priorities.

Thank you very much, Captain Obvious.

The "Miss Manners" agenda should be plied on Robeson, not wasted on me.

But do not whine and cry to change the requirements simply because
it's not
high enough on your priority list
to put some time into it.

I wouldn't characterize it as "whine and cry" (unless I wanted to
prejudice the
audience). Seems more like "this is my opinion on the matter".

Besides if you haven't time to study code 15 minutes
per day, you don't have time to study the theory either.

Is that kinda like when you told your child "if you haven't got room
for more
green beans, then you don't have room for dessert either"

"You can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat."

As you said, a person must get started to learn anything.
The first ones are difficult for all of us. Like anything else it
takes time
to get good.

"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something,
learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is
full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant
without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
---Bokonon in "Cat's
Cradle"

"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Sunuvagun!

73, de Hans, K0HB

Actual discussion on Morse Testing? Boy does that bring back memories!

bb

Mike Coslo wrote:
K=D8HB wrote:

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...


We each must choose our activities based on our personal
priorities.


Thank you very much, Captain Obvious.


But do not whine and cry to change the requirements simply because
it's not
high enough on your priority list
to put some time into it.


I wouldn't characterize it as "whine and cry" (unless I wanted to
prejudice the
audience). Seems more like "this is my opinion on the matter".


Besides if you haven't time to study code 15 minutes
per day, you don't have time to study the theory either.


Is that kinda like when you told your child "if you haven't got
room for more
green beans, then you don't have room for dessert either"


As you said, a person must get started to learn anything.
The first ones are difficult for all of us. Like anything else it
takes time
to get good.


"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something,
learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is
full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant
without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
---Bokonon in "Cat's
Cradle"

Wow, talk about prejudicing the audience! This assumes that those of
us
who support Morse testing simply do it because we had to.

That is one conclusion.

With my
problems with it, that would make me the meanest SOB in the valley.

The actuarial tables got you a promotion.

Perhaps, just perhaps, some of us believe that it is a good idea
simply
because it is a good idea, a mode that cant be performed by picking
up a
mic and talking, or typing on a keyboard, and needs to be learned?

It the explaining of why it is a good idea where you run into trouble.

"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing
prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode
questions
on the tests! I personally have no use for that! For a strict
appliance
operator who is going to buy everything they use and have someone
else
install it? No one should have to do anything they don't want to do!
Ditch all those unneeded questions.

The Miccolis argument goes farther. He's advocated dropping all
requirements testing. Why don't you go over the deep end, too?

Sunuvagun!

Huzzanga!

- Mike KB3EIA -

You can add all the CW quesstions, within reason, that you want. Let
CW stand with the other modes in the written test. And drop the code
test.

K=D8HB wrote:

You probably get the drift.
=20
73, de Hans, K0HB

Don't be so sure.

KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the
tests! I personally have no use for that!


Good point, and I agree. If we are going to have incredibly difficult
satellite questions on the Extra written exam, like the following verbatim
example.....

Q: Which of the following types of communications may space stations
transmit?

A. Automatic retransmission of signals from Earth stations and other space
stations
B. One-way communications
C. Telemetry consisting of specially coded messages
D. All of these choices are correct

.....then there ought to be similarly incredibly difficult CW questions on
the Extra written exam, like:

Q: Which of the following alphanumeric characters corresponds to the Morse
sound "di-dah"

A. A
B. B
C. C
D. All of these choices are correct

After all, fair is fair, and the CW mode ought to have test questions just
like all other modes. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'll bet you like those schools where the students determine the curriculum!


Not at all Mike. You've persuaded me that there ought to be test questions for
Morse just like there are test questions for each other mode. We seem to be in
complete agreement on the matter.

Ahh, appearing to agree with me to discount my point!

I could ace the entire test if asked is dih-dah meant "A". But that
isn't the point.

You did of course leave out my point that you can argue yourself out of
any testing via your argument......

such as....

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the tests!
I personally have no use for that! For a strict appliance operator who is going
to buy everything they use and have someone else install it? No one should have
to do anything they don't want to do! Ditch all those unneeded questions.

0 question test.


- Mike KB3EIA -

K=D8HB wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


When the ARRL advocates telepathy, I'll pay attention.
Communication
at the speed of thought!


Start practicing now, Brian, 30 minutes a day, and you'll be up to 5
WPM in just
a few weeks!
=20
73, de Hans, K0HB

I can already read Steve's mind at 20WPM. ;^)

Alun L. Palmer wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in
:

cl wrote:


which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only
takes a
few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass
a
test.

Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed
test
to get
to 5 wpm.

I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to
show
some
understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people.

I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by
comparison to
a
lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid.

- Mike KB3EIA -

You have a good point Mike. I have seldom had any problems with
written
exams, but passing a Morse test was hell. Those of us who have had
trouble
learning Morse have taken a lot of abuse in this group.

Dee says otherwise.

You hit the nail on
the head when you said you wouldn't do the same if someone had
trouble with
the theory.

The only person I've given a hard time about the tests was Bruce/WA8ULX.

K4YZ wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
bb wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

I've heard of some pretty wild times long before things were
"dumbed

down"!

- Mike KB3EIA -


Mike, I've been meaning to ask. Are you still sore at me for not
giving your grief about the balloon project?

HEH! Now you confused me Brian. But seriously, that you *didn't*
give
me grief was duly noted!

I've been stressing over
Steve's label of "antagonist" for not giving you grief for some
time
now. I'm such a terrible person. Hi!

Ohh, you know how newsgroups are.....

I know how they are, Mike!

They're populated by people who don't have the intestinal
fortitude to sign their names to their posts and they make up
allegations to try and hide behind.

Lie #27.

You refer to billybeeper as "Brain" and as "Brian." Mike just referred
to billybeeper as "Brian."

You just need somehting to **** and moan about.