wrote in message
oups.com...

Cosmo wrote:
I'm currently listening to 7.070Mhz. The time is 19:20EDT

I find the operations by some licensed amateurs and perhaps a pirate
station
is just appalling. Operators and I use the word loosely, making threats
at
each other, whistling over each other and discussing tracking operators
down
to sort them out!
It sounded like the 27Mhz CB band back in the mid seventies.

I can remember when amateurs took pride in their operating practices and
gentlemanly behaviour. If this what it is to become why would anyone be
attracted to the hobby unless perhaps they are an ignorant thugs. It
appears
to me and I know I will be condemned for this, but we seem to have
accepting
lower standards in more ways than we expected.

I believe that simply ignoring these operating practices and these
operators
will allow segments of the bands to become no go ghettos. A completely
unacceptable and un-Australian outcome.
I also believe that the looming threat to this great hobby come from
within
as mach as from outside forces, and there fore suggest that something
akin
to intruder watch be applied to monitoring amateur operations as I think
the
authorities response will be that we need to self regulate.

I am offering this observation for discussion and we be keen to see what
others think!

Cheers

Peter VK3YSF

Yeah, you really gotta watch out for those spurious emissions from
those motor armatures.

Spell check got me again!

"Cosmo" wrote in message
u...
I'm currently listening to 7.070Mhz. The time is 19:20EDT

I find the operations by some licensed amateurs and perhaps a pirate
station
is just appalling. Operators and I use the word loosely, making threats at
each other, whistling over each other and discussing tracking operators
down
to sort them out!
It sounded like the 27Mhz CB band back in the mid seventies.

[SNIP]
..
I also believe that the looming threat to this great hobby come from
within
as mach as from outside forces, and there fore suggest that something akin
to intruder watch be applied to monitoring amateur operations as I think
the
authorities response will be that we need to self regulate.


It's also very hard to "self-regulate" and sort out the problem operators
when the regulator doesn't even give a damn anymore..

I know it isn't Amateur band, but a recent episode on the UHF CB emergency
channel where an 'emergency monitor' responded to a brief button pusher with
the comment "some dickheads have no ****ing brains...." obtained a response
from ACMA that such operation was not considered offensive or wrong...
Maybe not on many local repeaters, but how many people expect a torrent of
abuse from an emergency monitor on the emergency channels??

I've said this before and I will keep saying it - no matter what band we are
talking about the amount of abuse and morons will continue to increase while
ever the rest of the operators feel it is someone else's problem to deal
with it... No doubt there are some new F calls, just like there were some
new H calls a few years ago, that don't operate within what many consider
"acceptable practices", but there are also a lot of others that do the same
and until the majority of the operators are willing to stand up and either
educate the relevant operators, OR, petition the ACMA and/or WIA to take
action and make necessary changes, the problem will continue.

I know from experience how quickly the ACMA can act on a complaint when they
want to, and how they can quickly and easily solve the problem. The trouble
is that nobody, or not enough, seem willing to get involved and help in the
"self-regulate" procedure, which basically means that if a gentle talking to
doesn't help (or the problem is far too serious), that the relevant
information and evidence be handed to the ACMA with an official complaint.

Perhaps the WIA does indeed need to look at a modified form of "intruder
watch" that would encourage amateurs (not just WIA members) to "dob in"
problem operators and then the WIA takes the matter to ACMA to help ensure
something actually gets done. After all, they are "our bands" and while
ever we are willing to tolerate such behaviour the ACMA is not likely to
care less - if that results in a downturn in numbers or sever misuse of the
bands, then that's a bonus to ACMA as they then get more spectrum to sell
off!!!

Cheers

Martin, VK2UMJ

flame-protective suit on

I have also heard this same type of behaviour on a Melbourne repeater just 3
days back and it involved 2 full call operators at first, then another
operator joined them and tried to quell the situation but without any luck.
I myself have just joined the amateur ranks and was very disapointed to hear
this sort of thing happening, this is something I would have expected to
hear on the CB bands, but not on amateur radio. I can only hope this was an
isolated incident as I achieved my licence to get away from this type of
activity.

Cheers and 73`s to all.

Graeme VK3FTTG
"Cosmo" wrote in message
u...
I'm currently listening to 7.070Mhz. The time is 19:20EDT

I find the operations by some licensed amateurs and perhaps a pirate
station
is just appalling. Operators and I use the word loosely, making threats at
each other, whistling over each other and discussing tracking operators
down
to sort them out!
It sounded like the 27Mhz CB band back in the mid seventies.

I can remember when amateurs took pride in their operating practices and
gentlemanly behaviour. If this what it is to become why would anyone be
attracted to the hobby unless perhaps they are an ignorant thugs. It
appears
to me and I know I will be condemned for this, but we seem to have
accepting
lower standards in more ways than we expected.

I believe that simply ignoring these operating practices and these
operators
will allow segments of the bands to become no go ghettos. A completely
unacceptable and un-Australian outcome.
I also believe that the looming threat to this great hobby come from
within
as mach as from outside forces, and there fore suggest that something akin
to intruder watch be applied to monitoring amateur operations as I think
the
authorities response will be that we need to self regulate.

I am offering this observation for discussion and we be keen to see what
others think!

Cheers

Peter VK3YSF

"Cosmo" wrote in message
u...
I'm currently listening to 7.070Mhz. The time is 19:20EDT

I find the operations by some licensed amateurs and perhaps a pirate
station
is just appalling. Operators and I use the word loosely, making threats at
each other, whistling over each other and discussing tracking operators
down
to sort them out!
It sounded like the 27Mhz CB band back in the mid seventies.

I can remember when amateurs took pride in their operating practices and
gentlemanly behaviour. If this what it is to become why would anyone be
attracted to the hobby unless perhaps they are an ignorant thugs. It
appears
to me and I know I will be condemned for this, but we seem to have
accepting
lower standards in more ways than we expected.

I believe that simply ignoring these operating practices and these
operators
will allow segments of the bands to become no go ghettos. A completely
unacceptable and un-Australian outcome.
I also believe that the looming threat to this great hobby come from
within
as mach as from outside forces, and there fore suggest that something akin
to intruder watch be applied to monitoring amateur operations as I think
the
authorities response will be that we need to self regulate.

I am offering this observation for discussion and we be keen to see what
others think!

Cheers

Peter VK3YSF

Fact. You don't need an amateur license to purchase and illegally use
tranceivers.

Fact. Self regulation without enforceable consequences doesn't work, either
in amateur radio or elsewhere.

Fact. Operating and technical standards have nosedived among many new
amateurs compared to 30 years ago. People don't generally respect and covert
what they haven't worked their tails off for.

Opinion. AR appears to be largely irrelevant to Australian society and its
instrumentalities. Apart from some noticeable occasions when amateurs
assisted in emergencies, it always has been just a hobby pursued by a group
of wierd misfits. (myself included We were geeks before the word was
invented. The difference is that today many in the ranks have no idea that
AR was once the hobby of gentlemen, kings and politicians. It was a level
playing field where one respected someone because they had been through the
same hoops, irregardless of social standing, money or power. But that's all
apparently ancient history.

Now AR is the playground for all. No more amateurs code, it's all F#$% you
mate!
Society has unfortunately changed. It's become personal. Me first, second
and third. Get outta my way and show me the bottom line.It's all about the
money. The revolution appears to have erased the words "respect" and
"tolerance".

Question. There used to be an advisory committee composed of amateurs who
sat down with the ACA and decided what action if any to take against
amateurs who stepped over the line. I wonder if such mechanisms still exist
? If they don't then perhaps they should.

Conclusion. Two years ago I had a very public battle with several amateurs
and would be amateurs who accused me of doing a "chicken little" i.e.
yelling "the sky is falling the sky is falling!".

It may not have fallen. But I would suggest that it may be very close to the
ground.

Cheers
Jim
VK4BBG

I am just curious as to what armature radio is all about? Is it radios
set up on some sort of an armature to allow you to move it about or
something?

"Cosmo" wrote in message
u...
I'm currently listening to 7.070Mhz. The time is 19:20EDT

I find the operations by some licensed amateurs and perhaps a pirate
station
is just appalling. Operators and I use the word loosely, making threats at
each other, whistling over each other and discussing tracking operators
down
to sort them out!
It sounded like the 27Mhz CB band back in the mid seventies.

I can remember when amateurs took pride in their operating practices and
gentlemanly behaviour. If this what it is to become why would anyone be
attracted to the hobby unless perhaps they are an ignorant thugs. It
appears
to me and I know I will be condemned for this, but we seem to have
accepting
lower standards in more ways than we expected.

I believe that simply ignoring these operating practices and these
operators
will allow segments of the bands to become no go ghettos. A completely
unacceptable and un-Australian outcome.
I also believe that the looming threat to this great hobby come from
within
as mach as from outside forces, and there fore suggest that something akin
to intruder watch be applied to monitoring amateur operations as I think
the
authorities response will be that we need to self regulate.

I am offering this observation for discussion and we be keen to see what
others think!

Cheers

Peter VK3YSF




_________________________________________
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More than 140,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

On 11/03/06 at 22:43:36 Jim somehow managed to type:
snip


Fact. snip


Here's another fact for you. In days gone by the older, in terms of
time spent in the hobby, amateurs would help those who were new to the
hobby. They'd help with operating procedures as well as the more
technical aspects of the hobby. Today the older amateurs are MUCH more
likely to provide NO help whatsoever.

I well remember when I made my first CQ call on HF as a Z call. Did I
get any meaningful response ? Not bloody likely. All I got was "why
don't you just **** off back to CB where you belong" followed by a
lengthy and foul tirade against limited licence holders being given HF
privileges. Was it a new operator. Nope. It was a long time full call
and one who up until then I'd considered a knowledgeable gentlemen.

My view is that quite a few people who've been in the hobby for a long
while resent newcomers and will do anything to get rid of 'em because
they didn't have to do a written exam or a CW exam. Those people would
do well to remember that they did exactly what todays newcomers do.
They studied for, and passed, the required exams.

This almost constant badmouthing of foundation licencees WITHOUT trying
to educate them is idiotic and demonstrates the true character of the
people doing the badmouthing. Perhaps if these same people were to put
the same amount of effort into helping educate the newcomers we'd all
be a lot better off.


snip

--
Humbug aka VK3ZMF
BE A LOOF! (There has been a recent population explosion of lerts.)

This almost constant badmouthing of foundation licencees WITHOUT trying
to educate them is idiotic and demonstrates the true character of the
people doing the badmouthing. Perhaps if these same people were to put
the same amount of effort into helping educate the newcomers we'd all
be a lot better off.

Nicely put.

In my experience, the very infrequent cases of abuse and **** fights on
amateur bands are more often caused by those who have been licensed for many
many years. They may involve a newcomer, who will undoubtable get the blame
regardless. This was happening when I first took an interest in amateur
radio 25 years ago, and its still the same now.
--
Jack VK2CJC / MM0AXL

"Jack VK2CJC/MM0AXL" wrote in message
...
This almost constant badmouthing of foundation licencees WITHOUT trying
to educate them is idiotic and demonstrates the true character of the
people doing the badmouthing. Perhaps if these same people were to put
the same amount of effort into helping educate the newcomers we'd all
be a lot better off.

Nicely put.

In my experience, the very infrequent cases of abuse and **** fights on
amateur bands are more often caused by those who have been licensed for
many many years. They may involve a newcomer, who will undoubtable get the
blame regardless. This was happening when I first took an interest in
amateur radio 25 years ago, and its still the same now.
--
Jack VK2CJC / MM0AXL



I can't speak for the Aussie's, but from what "I" seem to hear on the bands
in the U.S. - it isn't so much the newcomers doing the poor operating, it is
those who've been in it a while - Extra class at that.

clf

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:43:36 +1000, "Jim" jimshire1_no
spammy@iprimusdotcomdotau wrote:

... clipped

Opinion. AR appears to be largely irrelevant to Australian society and its
instrumentalities. Apart from some noticeable occasions when amateurs
assisted in emergencies, it always has been just a hobby pursued by a group
of wierd misfits. (myself included We were geeks before the word was
invented. The difference is that today many in the ranks have no idea that
AR was once the hobby of gentlemen, kings and politicians. It was a level
playing field where one respected someone because they had been through the
same hoops, irregardless of social standing, money or power. But that's all
apparently ancient history.

... clipped

Unforunately true, but that's the way it is. Perhaps the bright side
is that we should be grateful that the most heavily populated parts of
Australia aren't generally subject to the severe weather etc
conditions that make amateur radio emergency response capability such
an important community resource!


Question. There used to be an advisory committee composed of amateurs who
sat down with the ACA and decided what action if any to take against
amateurs who stepped over the line. I wonder if such mechanisms still exist
? If they don't then perhaps they should.

.... clipped

Yes it does, it's called the WIA/ACMA Liaison Committee - details on
the WIA www-page. As punishment for past "crimes", yours truly is a
member.

To respond to other related posts, the first step is a "quiet word"
and if this doesn't work, then written record of date, time,
callsigns, etc submitted via the Liaison Committee and/or direct to
ACMA is step two. The ACMA do respond to documented persistent
problems, but without making a "Ben Hur" scale production of it all.

Finally, an observation, seems to me that many established operators
perhaps tend to ignore newcomers as a response to "f*&% off, old-fart"
reactions.

Keith G Malcolm
VK1ZKM
12 March 2006

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:43:36 +1000, "Jim" jimshire1_no
spammy@iprimusdotcomdotau wrote:

... clipped

Opinion. AR appears to be largely irrelevant to Australian society and
its
instrumentalities. Apart from some noticeable occasions when amateurs
assisted in emergencies, it always has been just a hobby pursued by a
group
of wierd misfits. (myself included We were geeks before the word was
invented. The difference is that today many in the ranks have no idea
that
AR was once the hobby of gentlemen, kings and politicians. It was a level
playing field where one respected someone because they had been through
the
same hoops, irregardless of social standing, money or power. But that's
all
apparently ancient history.

... clipped

Unforunately true, but that's the way it is. Perhaps the bright side
is that we should be grateful that the most heavily populated parts of
Australia aren't generally subject to the severe weather etc
conditions that make amateur radio emergency response capability such
an important community resource!


Question. There used to be an advisory committee composed of amateurs who
sat down with the ACA and decided what action if any to take against
amateurs who stepped over the line. I wonder if such mechanisms still
exist
? If they don't then perhaps they should.

... clipped

Yes it does, it's called the WIA/ACMA Liaison Committee - details on
the WIA www-page. As punishment for past "crimes", yours truly is a
member.

To respond to other related posts, the first step is a "quiet word"
and if this doesn't work, then written record of date, time,
callsigns, etc submitted via the Liaison Committee and/or direct to
ACMA is step two. The ACMA do respond to documented persistent
problems, but without making a "Ben Hur" scale production of it all.

Finally, an observation, seems to me that many established operators
perhaps tend to ignore newcomers as a response to "f*&% off, old-fart"
reactions.

Keith G Malcolm
VK1ZKM
12 March 2006

This has been for me a constructive discussion and I hope for others. It
appears that many have similar concerns and more importantly some ideas. I
agree with the common thread that we must first engage with new operators,
although I was not necessarily suggesting the problem lies only with them!
And obviously we need to lead by example.
Having said that I believe that adequate policing procedures need to be put
in place if they are not already in place and if they are in place it needs
to be published.

I suggest that if anyone has a strong view on this issue that they contact
the relevant WIA committee member on the below contact page and see if we
are able to raise the issue to a sufficient level.

http://www.wia.org.au/contact.php

Cheers

Peter vk3ysf