On 2006-09-23, ken scharf wrote:

I would take exception to the "windows" requirement for the PC. They
should allow a solution using both "MAC" and "Linux" based PC's
especially the later.

Evidently, you didn't read this requirement thoroughly.

"The software must run on a Windows based PC platform although multi
platform support is encouraged."

I assume this is to make sure a solution is not done soley on an apple or
linux box, thereby leaving out 95% of computer users. I'm a linux
user, but let's face it, not including Windoze would exclude way too
many people. Not good for promoting ARRL programs.

nb

notbob wrote:
On 2006-09-23, ken scharf wrote:

I would take exception to the "windows" requirement for the PC. They
should allow a solution using both "MAC" and "Linux" based PC's
especially the later.

Evidently, you didn't read this requirement thoroughly.

"The software must run on a Windows based PC platform although multi
platform support is encouraged."

I assume this is to make sure a solution is not done soley on an apple or
linux box, thereby leaving out 95% of computer users. I'm a linux
user, but let's face it, not including Windoze would exclude way too
many people. Not good for promoting ARRL programs.

nb
Oh I read the requirements. I meant that I didn't agree with them, and
I wrote an email to ARRL with that opinion. They replied back to me
with your analysis, that they wanted a solution that would be applicable
to most computer users, but they also liked the idea of a multi-platform
project. Maybe they might open up a category for Linux.

The advantage of Linux is that the development tools are free, and Linux
will run on any computer that runs windows. You can also install Linux
on top of windows (on the same computer anyway) and dual boot, so you
can have your cake and eat it too (or have your poison and antidote too
in my opinion!).

"ken scharf" wrote in message
...

The advantage of Linux is that the development tools are free, and Linux
will run on any computer that runs windows.

Not entirely true. Linux doesn't always have the hardware support,
especially on newer boxes.

You can also install Linux
on top of windows (on the same computer anyway) and dual boot, so you
can have your cake and eat it too (or have your poison and antidote too
in my opinion!).

And why would you? Why would you suffer the complexity and frustration of
Linux if Windoze is working just fine for you?

Personally, I fully enjoy having Linux servers an Windoze desktops on my
home LAN, and with the magic of Cygwin, I can have Linux tools on my Windoze
box, and seamless access to my Linux apps, withough fully suffering the
clumsy Linux desktop.

But that is just me. Most folks want to use the applications, not the OS.
Most hams aren't going to write programs, and the features of Linux will be
lost on them, but the complexity sure won't. For them, all they want is a
little Digipan and email, why on earth would they subject themselves to yet
another set of stuff to learn? As far as i can tell, the only ham app on
Linux that is better than what is available on Windoze is gEDA. Everything
else is harder to use and less capable.

Now, I have a lot of ham apps on Linux that I have personally written.
These provide me with functions that aren't easily available on Windoze, and
the Linux environment makes it much easier. But I'm not most people. Not
too many hams are comfortable writing their own applications, or even if
they could, that isn't how they enjoy the hobby. For most people, including
most hams, Windoze serves the purpose.

Everyone has their own set of needs, and one size doesn't fit all. I
suspect there may even be some people for whom the Mac is the best answer,
although I can't imagine who they might be. But the getting in price for
Linux is still pretty high in terms of learning curve, and for most hams,
the return is close to zero. So why bother?

...

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:26:24 -0400, "xpyttl"
wrote:

"ken scharf" wrote in message
. ..

The advantage of Linux is that the development tools are free, and Linux
will run on any computer that runs windows.

Not entirely true. Linux doesn't always have the hardware support,
especially on newer boxes.

You can also install Linux
on top of windows (on the same computer anyway) and dual boot, so you
can have your cake and eat it too (or have your poison and antidote too
in my opinion!).

And why would you? Why would you suffer the complexity and frustration of
Linux if Windoze is working just fine for you?

Personally, I fully enjoy having Linux servers an Windoze desktops on my
home LAN, and with the magic of Cygwin, I can have Linux tools on my Windoze
box, and seamless access to my Linux apps, withough fully suffering the
clumsy Linux desktop.

But that is just me. Most folks want to use the applications, not the OS.
Most hams aren't going to write programs, and the features of Linux will be
lost on them, but the complexity sure won't. For them, all they want is a
little Digipan and email, why on earth would they subject themselves to yet
another set of stuff to learn? As far as i can tell, the only ham app on
Linux that is better than what is available on Windoze is gEDA. Everything
else is harder to use and less capable.

Now, I have a lot of ham apps on Linux that I have personally written.
These provide me with functions that aren't easily available on Windoze, and
the Linux environment makes it much easier. But I'm not most people. Not
too many hams are comfortable writing their own applications, or even if
they could, that isn't how they enjoy the hobby. For most people, including
most hams, Windoze serves the purpose.

Everyone has their own set of needs, and one size doesn't fit all. I
suspect there may even be some people for whom the Mac is the best answer,
although I can't imagine who they might be. But the getting in price for
Linux is still pretty high in terms of learning curve, and for most hams,
the return is close to zero. So why bother?

..
Excellent response. I too have a Linux system on my shack computer
dual-booting with Winders. I removed Linux from my main computer as
after several months of searching I could never find a decent driver
for my video card and wasn't about to buy another card when there was
nothing wrong with one I have except there aren't any Linux drivers
for it.

Plus setting the sucker up is a PITA. Kind of a cross between DOS and
Window '98. Finding extensions, plugins, or what ever you may call
them is some what like a scavenger hunt and takes a LOT of time and
effort.

If one takes the time and endures the learning curve the results are
often quite good. The system is very stable and works well.

73,
Danny, K6MHE

Danny Richardson wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:26:24 -0400, "xpyttl"
wrote:

"ken scharf" wrote in message
...

The advantage of Linux is that the development tools are free, and Linux
will run on any computer that runs windows.
Not entirely true. Linux doesn't always have the hardware support,
especially on newer boxes.

You can also install Linux
on top of windows (on the same computer anyway) and dual boot, so you
can have your cake and eat it too (or have your poison and antidote too
in my opinion!).
And why would you? Why would you suffer the complexity and frustration of
Linux if Windoze is working just fine for you?

Personally, I fully enjoy having Linux servers an Windoze desktops on my
home LAN, and with the magic of Cygwin, I can have Linux tools on my Windoze
box, and seamless access to my Linux apps, withough fully suffering the
clumsy Linux desktop.

But that is just me. Most folks want to use the applications, not the OS.
Most hams aren't going to write programs, and the features of Linux will be
lost on them, but the complexity sure won't. For them, all they want is a
little Digipan and email, why on earth would they subject themselves to yet
another set of stuff to learn? As far as i can tell, the only ham app on
Linux that is better than what is available on Windoze is gEDA. Everything
else is harder to use and less capable.

Now, I have a lot of ham apps on Linux that I have personally written.
These provide me with functions that aren't easily available on Windoze, and
the Linux environment makes it much easier. But I'm not most people. Not
too many hams are comfortable writing their own applications, or even if
they could, that isn't how they enjoy the hobby. For most people, including
most hams, Windoze serves the purpose.

Everyone has their own set of needs, and one size doesn't fit all. I
suspect there may even be some people for whom the Mac is the best answer,
although I can't imagine who they might be. But the getting in price for
Linux is still pretty high in terms of learning curve, and for most hams,
the return is close to zero. So why bother?

..
Excellent response. I too have a Linux system on my shack computer
dual-booting with Winders. I removed Linux from my main computer as
after several months of searching I could never find a decent driver
for my video card and wasn't about to buy another card when there was
nothing wrong with one I have except there aren't any Linux drivers
for it.

Plus setting the sucker up is a PITA. Kind of a cross between DOS and
Window '98. Finding extensions, plugins, or what ever you may call
them is some what like a scavenger hunt and takes a LOT of time and
effort.

If one takes the time and endures the learning curve the results are
often quite good. The system is very stable and works well.

73,
Danny, K6MHE
Those of us that have gone through the trouble of getting there know
the rewards of Linux. I agree, it's not something for everyone, but I
would think that if you have the brains to get a ham ticket and build
your own gear, you can figure it out. Also Ubuntu, Linspire (and
Freespire) provide a brainless install that usually just works.


As for hardware support, it's much better than it used to be. Almost
every sound card chipset found on today's motherboards are supported.
Nvidia and Ati both have Linux drivers for their latest video cards
(though they are binary drivers and must be downloaded and installed by
the end user....complete instructions on the manufacturer's wwebsites).
Intel's own graphics chips are supported directly by the kernel.

About the only thing I find lacking is Macromedia Flash support for
Linux, though there is a GNU project to provide it (gnash).

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:39:34 -0400, ken scharf
wrote:

Danny Richardson wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:26:24 -0400, "xpyttl"
wrote:

"ken scharf" wrote in message
...

The advantage of Linux is that the development tools are free, and Linux
will run on any computer that runs windows.
Not entirely true. Linux doesn't always have the hardware support,
especially on newer boxes.

You can also install Linux
on top of windows (on the same computer anyway) and dual boot, so you
can have your cake and eat it too (or have your poison and antidote too
in my opinion!).
And why would you? Why would you suffer the complexity and frustration of
Linux if Windoze is working just fine for you?

Personally, I fully enjoy having Linux servers an Windoze desktops on my
home LAN, and with the magic of Cygwin, I can have Linux tools on my Windoze
box, and seamless access to my Linux apps, withough fully suffering the
clumsy Linux desktop.

But that is just me. Most folks want to use the applications, not the OS.
Most hams aren't going to write programs, and the features of Linux will be
lost on them, but the complexity sure won't. For them, all they want is a
little Digipan and email, why on earth would they subject themselves to yet
another set of stuff to learn? As far as i can tell, the only ham app on
Linux that is better than what is available on Windoze is gEDA. Everything
else is harder to use and less capable.

Now, I have a lot of ham apps on Linux that I have personally written.
These provide me with functions that aren't easily available on Windoze, and
the Linux environment makes it much easier. But I'm not most people. Not
too many hams are comfortable writing their own applications, or even if
they could, that isn't how they enjoy the hobby. For most people, including
most hams, Windoze serves the purpose.

Everyone has their own set of needs, and one size doesn't fit all. I
suspect there may even be some people for whom the Mac is the best answer,
although I can't imagine who they might be. But the getting in price for
Linux is still pretty high in terms of learning curve, and for most hams,
the return is close to zero. So why bother?

..
Excellent response. I too have a Linux system on my shack computer
dual-booting with Winders. I removed Linux from my main computer as
after several months of searching I could never find a decent driver
for my video card and wasn't about to buy another card when there was
nothing wrong with one I have except there aren't any Linux drivers
for it.

Plus setting the sucker up is a PITA. Kind of a cross between DOS and
Window '98. Finding extensions, plugins, or what ever you may call
them is some what like a scavenger hunt and takes a LOT of time and
effort.

If one takes the time and endures the learning curve the results are
often quite good. The system is very stable and works well.

73,
Danny, K6MHE
Those of us that have gone through the trouble of getting there know
the rewards of Linux. I agree, it's not something for everyone, but I
would think that if you have the brains to get a ham ticket and build
your own gear, you can figure it out. Also Ubuntu, Linspire (and
Freespire) provide a brainless install that usually just works.

I really don't want to debate this but will add this comment: I did
not find that true with Ubuntu. Try playing videos or mp3s without
addding a bunch of stuff after the install. Its not a slam-dunk yet.

It really a choice thing and we don't all make the same choices. G

very 73,
Danny, K6MHE

[snip]

Danny Richardson wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:39:34 -0400, ken scharf
wrote:

Danny Richardson wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:26:24 -0400, "xpyttl"
wrote:

"ken scharf" wrote in message
...

The advantage of Linux is that the development tools are free, and Linux
will run on any computer that runs windows.
Not entirely true. Linux doesn't always have the hardware support,
especially on newer boxes.

You can also install Linux
on top of windows (on the same computer anyway) and dual boot, so you
can have your cake and eat it too (or have your poison and antidote too
in my opinion!).
And why would you? Why would you suffer the complexity and frustration of
Linux if Windoze is working just fine for you?

Personally, I fully enjoy having Linux servers an Windoze desktops on my
home LAN, and with the magic of Cygwin, I can have Linux tools on my Windoze
box, and seamless access to my Linux apps, withough fully suffering the
clumsy Linux desktop.

But that is just me. Most folks want to use the applications, not the OS.
Most hams aren't going to write programs, and the features of Linux will be
lost on them, but the complexity sure won't. For them, all they want is a
little Digipan and email, why on earth would they subject themselves to yet
another set of stuff to learn? As far as i can tell, the only ham app on
Linux that is better than what is available on Windoze is gEDA. Everything
else is harder to use and less capable.

Now, I have a lot of ham apps on Linux that I have personally written.
These provide me with functions that aren't easily available on Windoze, and
the Linux environment makes it much easier. But I'm not most people. Not
too many hams are comfortable writing their own applications, or even if
they could, that isn't how they enjoy the hobby. For most people, including
most hams, Windoze serves the purpose.

Everyone has their own set of needs, and one size doesn't fit all. I
suspect there may even be some people for whom the Mac is the best answer,
although I can't imagine who they might be. But the getting in price for
Linux is still pretty high in terms of learning curve, and for most hams,
the return is close to zero. So why bother?

..
Excellent response. I too have a Linux system on my shack computer
dual-booting with Winders. I removed Linux from my main computer as
after several months of searching I could never find a decent driver
for my video card and wasn't about to buy another card when there was
nothing wrong with one I have except there aren't any Linux drivers
for it.

Plus setting the sucker up is a PITA. Kind of a cross between DOS and
Window '98. Finding extensions, plugins, or what ever you may call
them is some what like a scavenger hunt and takes a LOT of time and
effort.

If one takes the time and endures the learning curve the results are
often quite good. The system is very stable and works well.

73,
Danny, K6MHE
Those of us that have gone through the trouble of getting there know
the rewards of Linux. I agree, it's not something for everyone, but I
would think that if you have the brains to get a ham ticket and build
your own gear, you can figure it out. Also Ubuntu, Linspire (and
Freespire) provide a brainless install that usually just works.

I really don't want to debate this but will add this comment: I did
not find that true with Ubuntu. Try playing videos or mp3s without
addding a bunch of stuff after the install. Its not a slam-dunk yet.

Ubuntu tries to be a totally free (as in freedom) distro so they don't
distribute closed source drivers and plugins by default. As you noticed
it's possible but requires user intervention. There are scripts
available to do this for your with one click.

It really a choice thing and we don't all make the same choices. G

very 73,
Danny, K6MHE

[snip]

Yes! choice is good!

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:39:34 -0400, ken scharf wrote:


About the only thing I find lacking is Macromedia Flash support for Linux,
though there is a GNU project to provide it (gnash).

Flash working fine here on Mepis 3.4-3.

Even runs my LinkSys WPC54G wireless card when other distros wouldn't.

About the only thing I find lacking is Macromedia Flash support for Linux,
though there is a GNU project to provide it (gnash).

Flash working fine here on Mepis 3.4-3.

Even runs my LinkSys WPC54G wireless card when other distros wouldn't.
===================================
Question : Do you run 'Simply Mepis' from a live CD or have you
installed that distro on your HD ?

'Simply Mepis' upgrades come hard and fast ; last month the Linux Format
magazine's DVD carried version 6.0

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

Leroy wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:39:34 -0400, ken scharf wrote:


About the only thing I find lacking is Macromedia Flash support for Linux,
though there is a GNU project to provide it (gnash).

Flash working fine here on Mepis 3.4-3.

Even runs my LinkSys WPC54G wireless card when other distros wouldn't.

There are TWO different flash plugins. Macromedia is NOT supported
under linux. There is another pluging also called flash that is.