Hi all,

I have the (incredible fast and reliable) Verizon fiber optic into the
house for my internet connection. So far so good. However at the
access point there is a battery backup unit for the fiber-Copper
converter. This battery unit is kept charged by a powersupply that
makes an ENOURMOUS amount of RFI that radiates onto the (15 feet) lead
into the unit and from there into the shack. (S6)

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to silence this? Or... a
suggestion for a cheap and 'quiet' powersupply? (It's output is a
regular 12v)

73 Rob

KE7KZN

wrote ...
I have the (incredible fast and reliable) Verizon fiber optic into the
house for my internet connection. So far so good. However at the
access point there is a battery backup unit for the fiber-Copper
converter. This battery unit is kept charged by a powersupply that
makes an ENOURMOUS amount of RFI that radiates onto the (15 feet) lead
into the unit and from there into the shack. (S6)

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to silence this? Or... a
suggestion for a cheap and 'quiet' powersupply? (It's output is a
regular 12v)

You could likely find a linear (old-fashioned 60Hz transformer)
"wall-wart" power supply at Radio Shack (and the appropriate
connector/adapter to fit your equipment).

I have FIOS in my neighborhood, but haven't signed up yet.
I'm going to give up waiting for the WiMax broadband wireless
network service and just go with FIOS.

Richard KE7GKP (down the street at Intel)

On 28 Feb 2007 14:30:08 -0500, Richard Crowley wrote in :
wrote ...
I have the (incredible fast and reliable) Verizon fiber optic into the
house for my internet connection. So far so good. However at the
access point there is a battery backup unit for the fiber-Copper
converter. This battery unit is kept charged by a powersupply that
makes an ENOURMOUS amount of RFI that radiates onto the (15 feet) lead
into the unit and from there into the shack. (S6)

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to silence this? Or... a
suggestion for a cheap and 'quiet' powersupply? (It's output is a
regular 12v)

You could likely find a linear (old-fashioned 60Hz transformer)
"wall-wart" power supply at Radio Shack (and the appropriate
connector/adapter to fit your equipment).

I have FIOS in my neighborhood, but haven't signed up yet.
I'm going to give up waiting for the WiMax broadband wireless
network service and just go with FIOS.

Seems to me that their power supply is interfering with a licensed
service, and that it's Verizon's problem to solve. In addition, if
you do anything to their hardware, however well-intentioned and
skillful you are, you're giving them an excuse to blame any of your
future problems on you.

At least they *have* a battery backup for their FIOS.

--
Mike Andrews, W5EGO

Tired old sysadmin

Hi everyone:

"Mike Andrews" wrote in message
...
On 28 Feb 2007 14:30:08 -0500, Richard Crowley wrote
in :
wrote ...
I have the (incredible fast and reliable) Verizon fiber optic into the
house for my internet connection. So far so good. However at the
access point there is a battery backup unit for the fiber-Copper
converter. This battery unit is kept charged by a powersupply that
makes an ENOURMOUS amount of RFI that radiates onto the (15 feet) lead
into the unit and from there into the shack. (S6)

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to silence this? Or... a
suggestion for a cheap and 'quiet' powersupply? (It's output is a
regular 12v)

Seems to me that their power supply is interfering with a licensed
service, and that it's Verizon's problem to solve. In addition, if
you do anything to their hardware, however well-intentioned and
skillful you are, you're giving them an excuse to blame any of your
future problems on you.

I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree Mike.

While it's EASY to blame Verizon and accuse them of interfering with a
licensed service, you're forgetting one thing. Their technicians, just like
that of any major broadband provider (Be it Verizon, Time-Warner, Comcast,
QWORST, etc),.ARE NOT trained to handle Ham Radio Operators as customers nor
are they trained to customize the installation so it doesn't interfere with
Amateur Radio. They are only required to troubleshoot (Or at least attempt
to) problems with the equipment and/or anything it's connected to. If no
problems exist within the equipment or anything it's connected to, then the
problem(s) lie with the Ham station itself.

That can only be corrected by the Ham.

Richard....Did you do a full diagnostic on your station to see if the
problem might somehow be in your Ham equipment that might be receiving
excessive amounts of RF, thus causing the problem?

At least they *have* a battery backup for their FIOS.

This may be true Mike, but as I said IF the problem is not with the
provider's equipment and/or anything it's connected to, then Richard is the
one with the problem and only he can solve it. Verizon can't do a thing
about problems with his Ham station because, again assuming there are no
problems with Verizon's equipment or anything it's connected to, they're not
responsible.

Just my $.02 worth

Cheers & 73

Pat Cook, KB0OXD
Denver, Colorado
WEBSITE - http://www.qsl.net/kb0oxd/
**NEW VIDEO SECTION - http://www.qsl.net/kb0oxd/cybershacktv/

On 28 Feb 2007 22:58:35 -0500, Pat Cook wrote in :
Hi everyone:

"Mike Andrews" wrote in message
...
On 28 Feb 2007 14:30:08 -0500, Richard Crowley wrote
in :
wrote ...
I have the (incredible fast and reliable) Verizon fiber optic into the
house for my internet connection. So far so good. However at the
access point there is a battery backup unit for the fiber-Copper
converter. This battery unit is kept charged by a powersupply that
makes an ENOURMOUS amount of RFI that radiates onto the (15 feet) lead
into the unit and from there into the shack. (S6)

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to silence this? Or... a
suggestion for a cheap and 'quiet' powersupply? (It's output is a
regular 12v)

Seems to me that their power supply is interfering with a licensed
service, and that it's Verizon's problem to solve. In addition, if
you do anything to their hardware, however well-intentioned and
skillful you are, you're giving them an excuse to blame any of your
future problems on you.

I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree Mike.

While it's EASY to blame Verizon and accuse them of interfering with a
licensed service, you're forgetting one thing. Their technicians, just like
that of any major broadband provider (Be it Verizon, Time-Warner, Comcast,
QWORST, etc),.ARE NOT trained to handle Ham Radio Operators as customers nor
are they trained to customize the installation so it doesn't interfere with
Amateur Radio. They are only required to troubleshoot (Or at least attempt
to) problems with the equipment and/or anything it's connected to. If no
problems exist within the equipment or anything it's connected to, then the
problem(s) lie with the Ham station itself.

That can only be corrected by the Ham.

Richard....Did you do a full diagnostic on your station to see if the
problem might somehow be in your Ham equipment that might be receiving
excessive amounts of RF, thus causing the problem?

At least they *have* a battery backup for their FIOS.

This may be true Mike, but as I said IF the problem is not with the
provider's equipment and/or anything it's connected to, then Richard is the
one with the problem and only he can solve it. Verizon can't do a thing
about problems with his Ham station because, again assuming there are no
problems with Verizon's equipment or anything it's connected to, they're not
responsible.

Just my $.02 worth

"Assuming there's no problem with Verizon's equipment ... ."

Richard wrote explicitly that there *was* something wrong with it --
that "his battery unit is kept charged by a powersupply that makes an
ENOURMOUS amount of RFI that radiates onto the (15 feet) lead into the
unit and from there into the shack. (S6)"

Looks like it's not justifiable to assume that there's no problem with
Verizon's equipment.

Ah, but ... The FCC sends out enforcement letters to folks with noise
generators -- unintentional radiators -- with some frequency. The
ones I've seen have included fence chargers with problems, aquarium
heaters, televisions that were leaking signal, power line transformers
and insulators, and a great many more classes of sources.

If it's Verizon's equipment, then it's Verizon's problem, and a
letter to them -- outlining the problem and suggesting that they do
something to fix it before a letter gets sent to the FCC -- probably
should be sent. And, of course, it is not Richard's equipment, but
Verizon's equipment. While their run-of-the-mill techs may not be
qualified to deal with this, VZ will have some higher-level techs who
*are* so qualified.

VZ is *required* to not interfere, just as the folks with the aquarium
heater, the folks with the bad fence chargers, the folks with the leaky
TVs, and the folks operating the power transmission system are required
to not interfere. The enforcement letters tell them what will happen if
they continue to interfere, and it's generally pretty pricey.

If the power supply is radiating enough to interfere, then it's also
radiating enough that VZ is required to fix the problem. Whether they
have techs trained to do so isn't germane to the issue; the FCC has in
the past just told the folks responsible for the interference to stop
it. Or else. Period.

--
Mike Andrews, W5EGO

Tired old sysadmin

Thanks guys!

I'm going to play with some filters and beads. See if that works
first. I agree that it actually is Verizon's problem (and I will
inform them when I can't get it resolved.) but I want to see if I can
avoid the headace of trying to explain them the issue. $5 worth of
filter/beads might not be so badly spend if it works. Oh by the way...
found out that the powersupply is 48V! (my bad!)

On 1 Mar 2007 01:19:20 -0500, "Mike Andrews"
wrote:

VZ is *required* to not interfere, just as the folks with the aquarium
heater, the folks with the bad fence chargers, the folks with the leaky
TVs, and the folks operating the power transmission system are required
to not interfere. The enforcement letters tell them what will happen if
they continue to interfere, and it's generally pretty pricey.

And on a practical point, Verizon would rather spend the $100 in
labor and $10 in equipment costs to solve the problem to avoid having
their name "flagged" in regulatory enforcement files and have it pop
up when they apply for something really important such as rule
exemptions or rate increases!

If it were me, I would run a good heavy fused lead to my 12V station
battery and leave the charger unplugged and disconnected. That's
something the average installation tech can understand.
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

In article . com,
wrote:
Hi all,

I have the (incredible fast and reliable) Verizon fiber optic into the
house for my internet connection. So far so good. However at the
access point there is a battery backup unit for the fiber-Copper
converter. This battery unit is kept charged by a powersupply that
makes an ENOURMOUS amount of RFI that radiates onto the (15 feet) lead
into the unit and from there into the shack. (S6)

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to silence this? Or... a
suggestion for a cheap and 'quiet' powersupply? (It's output is a
regular 12v)

You could try ferrite beads on the wires. YMMV.

Or just bitch to Verizon.

--
Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red, Shasta & Casey (RIP), Red & Zero, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L
Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

wrote:
Hi all,

I have the (incredible fast and reliable) Verizon fiber optic into the
house for my internet connection. So far so good. However at the
access point there is a battery backup unit for the fiber-Copper
converter. This battery unit is kept charged by a powersupply that
makes an ENOURMOUS amount of RFI that radiates onto the (15 feet) lead
into the unit and from there into the shack. (S6)

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to silence this? Or... a
suggestion for a cheap and 'quiet' powersupply? (It's output is a
regular 12v)

73 Rob

KE7KZN


Run it off a pack of eight rechargable nimh or nicads, make a simple
charger unit and fast charge when not in use.

Should be a quiet as a lamb ...

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com

On Feb 28, 1:26 pm, wrote:

I have the (incredible fast and reliable) Verizon fiber optic into the
house for my internet connection. So far so good. However at the
access point there is a battery backup unit for the fiber-Copper
converter. This battery unit is kept charged by a powersupply that
makes an ENOURMOUS amount of RFI that radiates onto the (15 feet) lead
into the unit and from there into the shack. (S6)

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to silence this? Or... a
suggestion for a cheap and 'quiet' powersupply? (It's output is a
regular 12v)

Over the years, I have seen a number of posts that cite strong RFI
from various sources. In most cases, where I have obtained a unit and
made measurements, the units have complied with the FCC limits.

Most of these devices are switchmode power supplies. In the US,
because they intentionally generate signals above 9 kHz internally,
they are classified as unintentional emitters and must meet the FCC
Part 15 conducteed emissions limits below 30 MHz and the radiated
emissions limits above 30 MHz. (The premise is that on HF, small
chasses don't radiate much, while the wires they are connected to
do.)

Unless they are used as part of a computer system, they are "verified"
as described in the Part 15 rules. This means that the manufacturer is
required to test them and keep the results on file. Switchmode power
supplies used in computers are authorized under a Declaration of
Conformity (tested by the manufacturer as verified devices, but only
by labs the FCC has approved) or, rarely nowadays, under
certification, where the manufacturer sends test data to the FCC,
which then authorizes the product.

The manufacturer must meet the limits and authorization requirements;
the operator of the device is responsible for harmful interference.

In most of the interference reports I have seen, someone is
interfering with themselves. If the device meets the FCC rules, and it
is likely that it does, the FCC not, of course, offer much sympathy.

The premise that boxes don't radiate much on HF, but wires do, points
to the cure. The easiest thing to try is a common-mode choke on the
wires going to and from the box. Below 30 MHz, ferrite beads usually
don't have enough inductance to function well as ferrites. You will
need to get a toroidal core that is big enough to pass the
connector(s) through, and wrap about 10 turns of wire onto it. For
lower HF, -73, -75, -77 or -J material is probably best. For upper HF,
I would use -43. The nomenclature of most cores sold to hams has the
size in the first part of the part number and the material in the
second part. For example, an F-240-43 core has an outer diameter of
2.4 inches and uses -43 material.

That may solve the problem, but with a switch-mode supply, it is
likely that differntial-mode noise is also being coupled onto the
line. For that, you need a "brute-force" AC-line filter that uses
inductors and capacitors. I don't know if is still a good number, but
Radio Shack's catalog # 15-1111 is a suitable filter. Others are sold
by Industrial Communications Engineers (http://
www.iceradioproducts.com/).

You may need a combination of brute-force and common-mode filtering.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
ARRL Lab