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Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: Date: 1/6/2005 6:00 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: . com Lenof21 wrote: Take the "grace period" for example. It should ONLY be included as a separate part of an interpretation. WHY? The license holder isn't prohibited from doing anything after midnight of the last day of his/her 10-year-active-license period...and for two more years into that grace period. That's simply not true, Len. The holder of an expired FCC amateur radio license cannot legally operate until the license has been renewed. This is the second time I've seen you state that mistake here in the past few days. An expired FCC amateur license carries *no* operating privleges. IS there some reason you persist in this obvious error? I told ya... His Worminess has yet laid his long-tailed ignorance to bare in a house full of rocking chairs. There are many, many reasons, all valid, for being unable to renew prior to the last day of the 10-year period. Such as? Death? Coma? Prisoner-of-War (about the ONLY valid reason I can think of...) ? FCC allows renewal from 90 days before the expiration date. Renewal can be done online, or the appropriate forms can be downloaded or ordered well in advance and the renewal done by mail. In any event, even if someone cannot renew before the license expires, they cannot legally operate while in the grace period. You created an artificial thing there with your particular interpretation. Have you read 97.21(b)? It's pretty clear on the subject. Not to mention the number of times "Enforcement Letters" have been published in QST from the FCC...Seems Riley & Company have the same opinion...If your license "expires" on December 31st and you are operating on January 1st, YOU have a problem! Come on, Lennie...Suck it it...it ain't that hard to do...Be a man..Own up to your GLARING error and move on... 73 Steve, K4YZ |
Steve Robeson K4YZ wrote:
Subject: ARS License Numbers From: Date: 1/6/2005 6:00 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: . com Lenof21 wrote: WHY? The license holder isn't prohibited from doing anything after midnight of the last day of his/her 10-year-active-license period...and for two more years into that grace period. That's simply not true, Len. The holder of an expired FCC amateur radio license cannot legally operate until the license has been renewed. This is the second time I've seen you state that mistake here in the past few days. An expired FCC amateur license carries *no* operating privleges. IS there some reason you persist in this obvious error? I told ya... His Worminess has yet laid his long-tailed ignorance to bare in a house full of rocking chairs. It's just a mistake, Steve. Len Anderson obviously doesn't understand 97.21(b). There are many, many reasons, all valid, for being unable to renew prior to the last day of the 10-year period. Such as? Death? Coma? Prisoner-of-War (about the ONLY valid reason I can think of...) ? Well, someone could be ill, or busy with work, family, volunteer activities, travel, moving, natural disaster, military service, etc. FCC doesn't care. If a ham lets his/her amateur license expire, they can't legally operate until it is renewed. Such renewal is valid when it shows up in the FCC database - you don't have to wait for the paper license to show up. All of this is *extremely basic* regulatory stuff, clearly stated in 97.21(b), not somebody's opinion or interpretation. FCC allows renewal from 90 days before the expiration date. Renewal can be done online, or the appropriate forms can be downloaded or ordered well in advance and the renewal done by mail. In any event, even if someone cannot renew before the license expires, they cannot legally operate while in the grace period. You created an artificial thing there with your particular interpretation. Have you read 97.21(b)? It's pretty clear on the subject. Not to mention the number of times "Enforcement Letters" have been published in QST from the FCC...Seems Riley & Company have the same opinion...If your license "expires" on December 31st and you are operating on January 1st, YOU have a problem! Only until it's renewed. What is most interesting is the fact that someone like Len, who has told us how the regulations should be changed for so many years, should be so ignorant of such a basic rule from Part 97. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Lenof21 wrote:
In article . net, "Grümwîtch thë Ünflãppåblê" writes: "Lenof21" wrote in message ... : The license holder isn't prohibited from doing anything after : midnight of the last day of his/her 10-year-active-license period...and : for two more years into that grace period. : Untrue. (Some would say an outright lie) They are certainly prohibited from operating their amateur radio station without supervision, since they possess no valid operator license. Tsk. Ye of little faith. :-) Now what did I write that was UNTRUE? Hmmm? "The license holder isn't prohibited from doing anything after midnight of the last day of his/her 10-year-active-license period." Was anything written about "operating an amateur radio station?" No. :-) Apparently you said that an amateur with an expired license was given carte blanche to do *anything* after their license expired. Maybe that is why so many allowed there licenses to expire. Now they are not prohibited from doing anything! Kewl! - Mike KB3EIA - |
Lenof21 wrote:
In article . net, "Grümwîtch thë Ünflãppåblê" writes: "Lenof21" wrote in message ... : The license holder isn't prohibited from doing anything after : midnight of the last day of his/her 10-year-active-license period...and : for two more years into that grace period. : Untrue. (Some would say an outright lie) They are certainly prohibited from operating their amateur radio station without supervision, since they possess no valid operator license. Tsk. Ye of little faith. :-) Now what did I write that was UNTRUE? Hmmm? You wrote in an earlier message: Lenof21 All licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating in their grace Lenof21 period. There is no necessity (nor sense) to eliminate those in the Lenof21 grace period from those in the normal 10-year license period from Lenof21 any class totals. Then you appear to have modified it to say: "The license holder isn't prohibited from doing anything after midnight of the last day of his/her 10-year-active-license period." Was anything written about "operating an amateur radio station?" No. :-) Yes, because you wrote the above mentioned quote in an earlier message They could have a valid commercial license and not be prohibited from using that. Note: A commercial license does not allow operation IN the amateur bands...just like an amateur license does NOT allow operation outside of amateur bands. So. They *are* prohibited from operating in the amateur bands. That is significantly different than "not being prohibited from doing anything" ALL of Title 47 C.F.R. applies to ALL USA citizens. Yes, that includes amateur radio licensees. :-) In that you will find that, if there is a REAL emergency situation, there is NO prohibition against anyone using any frequency, any mode for help. True. Ain't gonna be no Raddio Polizei saying "papers please" while wearting leather topcoats and armbands in a REAL emergency. Emergency comms is in another ongoing thread. Do you believe that we are trying to argue that expired licensees can't use any frequencies during an emergency? I don't recall anyone saying that. Some argumentative amateur word-twister is going to pop in and shout/holler "this is an amateur radio newsgroup!" Well, if so, why is all the Chat Room nonsense going on between "regulars" in here which is NOT about amateur radio? :-) Hehe, Word twisting? Commercial licenses and Emergency operations dictated by an expired license? The rationalizations abound about that. Suddenly anyone with a ham license can "justify" their Chat Room gabbling because they once took a small test and got a certificate of "federal authority!" Somehow I don't think the Chat Room regulars would accept an FDA official talking about pork production...even though they would have a real HAM license. :-) I guess the "only ones who count" in here are the Regulars, the life-stylers, those who eat-breathe-sleep amateur radio. They are NEVER wrong. Their words are TRVTH itself, engraved in eternal marble. Their shall be no discourse with them...of course. In that you are incorrect. I don't mind having a good discussion, and even enjoy a good argument. But I do expect a good argument with proper give and take. Some times I am wrong, and some times right. But your case would be better served if you were to simply admit your mistakes and move on to good debate. It's a religious thing. Something like "for the League, God, and Country" (in that order). "Once a ham, always a ham." [it's like the murine corpse] Get with the program, Grum. ...or admit you've almost plagiarized Dr. Dobbs' good journal name. Let's do good discussions with proper give and take. Anything else risks irrelevancy. - Mike KB3EIA - |
In article , Mike Coslo
writes: So. They *are* prohibited from operating in the amateur bands. That is significantly different than "not being prohibited from doing anything" Of course it is. However, commercial band users MAY operate in ham bands which are not allocated exclusively for amateurs. :-) For that matter, the federal government seldom requires "licensing" of radio operators, civilian or military, whether in or outside of amateur bands. ALL of Title 47 C.F.R. applies to ALL USA citizens. Yes, that includes amateur radio licensees. :-) In that you will find that, if there is a REAL emergency situation, there is NO prohibition against anyone using any frequency, any mode for help. True. Ain't gonna be no Raddio Polizei saying "papers please" while wearting leather topcoats and armbands in a REAL emergency. Emergency comms is in another ongoing thread. Do you believe that we are trying to argue that expired licensees can't use any frequencies during an emergency? I don't recall anyone saying that. So, have the court clerk read back the court transcript. :-) Don't get your legal briefs in a twist. Some argumentative amateur word-twister is going to pop in and shout/holler "this is an amateur radio newsgroup!" Well, if so, why is all the Chat Room nonsense going on between "regulars" in here which is NOT about amateur radio? :-) Hehe, Word twisting? Commercial licenses and Emergency operations dictated by an expired license? So, in here, what is different with everyone else? Lots of gabble about politics, economics, business activities none of the gabblers have been in, the divinity of morsemanship ability above all other amateur skills. In that you are incorrect. I don't mind having a good discussion, and even enjoy a good argument. But I do expect a good argument with proper give and take. Not much in public evidence to support your claims. :-) PCTAs demand capitulation to them by all NCTA. That's been implied for as long as the League has been around. :-) Some times I am wrong, and some times right. But your case would be better served if you were to simply admit your mistakes and move on to good debate. When I see "good debate" in here, I'll flag you down, run it up the pole, prolly take out a billboard. See...you are falling into the gruff "just capitulate to us PCTA" and be nice attitude. :-) Let's do good discussions with proper give and take. Anything else risks irrelevancy. Hey...you no like my NCTA tone, have me locked out of the newsgroup. Don't worry, several others will call me names, usually names in languages they don't know well. :-) You ARE moderator, aren't you? Didn't Paul Schleck vacate the job and make you Chief of Attitude Protocol? :-) |
In article , Lenof21 writes:
addendum to what was sent prior In that you are incorrect. I don't mind having a good discussion, and even enjoy a good argument. But I do expect a good argument with proper give and take. Not much in public evidence to support your claims. :-) PCTAs demand capitulation to them by all NCTA. That's been implied for as long as the League has been around. :-) Some times I am wrong, and some times right. But your case would be better served if you were to simply admit your mistakes and move on to good debate. A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I thought so, too. Noooo, in here good old KH2D pretty well set that straight for the PCTA side. Must bin around 8+ years ago... :-) Much better than the current crop of PCTApparatchiks. Yourself included, by the way. What is my "case," counsellor? Is this the Righteous Supreme Court of Hamdom? Are you serving torts with coffee during recess? Does the Court Gift Shop sell little souvenirs such as glit-framed pictures of famous telegraph keys (with their own accent lights)? Maybe they sell voodoo dolls of hated NCTA complete with complimentary pins? My "case" seems to vary with whoever thin-skinned is injured the most. To one I made a burn-in-hell-for-eternity mistake by NOT getting an extra "out of the box" long ago. Tsk. He thinks that is utter and complete failure to complete a Life Promise and shows moral turpitude (or something that smells strongly, maybe like paint thinner). Another says I can ONLY "show interest in radio" by getting an amateur radio license FIRST. [no real reason given except he was bereft of any comback and was trying to wing a reply] Well, that's just too #$%^!!!! bad since I made that decision back 48 years ago, got a First Phone and started working in broadcasting, using it. Only one other seems to have a working time machine for regular trips back there...and before. When I see "good debate" in here, I'll flag you down, run it up the pole, prolly take out a billboard. NO, repeat NO "debate" in here is really possible with anyone not-licensed- in-any-amateur-service correspondent. That's been proved so many times over by public example in 8 years, that it shouldn't need any comment. This forum is EXCLUSIVELY for already-licensed amateurs to talk about getting INTO amateur radio? Of course. League has all the answers, just Follow The Law, do like everyone else did, and shuthehellup. Simple. Morse code testing is The Law. All must Obey the Law. Nobody EVER should think heretical thoughts about Changing The Law. Heresy! Blasphemy! [bite thy tongues, irreverent ones] Tsk. Some of us do think the Law ought to be changed here and there. Better call the Department of Homeland Security! The future looks full of tension and anxiety for the Antique Radiotelegraphy Society (ARS). --- So, no like to work with raw data on U.S. amateur radio statistics? Afraid to see the trends showing the changing interests in the hobby? Like for the last dozen years? Don't worry. JPM will be the savior, showing numbers that ease your worries, calm your anxieties. He is NEVER wrong. He say so...mebbe. Meanwhile, rail and rant at all those who don't think quite like you do, Mike. Obviously we are all "mistaken" and "in error" (for that good old "plain simple fact'). You will be vindicated. Nothing the NCTA can possibly be right, can it? [some of us are so nice and obliging that we deliberately make errors...all to make you satisfied...heheheheheh] |
Lenof21 wrote:
In article , Lenof21 writes: My "case" seems to vary with whoever thin-skinned is injured the most. To one I made a burn-in-hell-for-eternity mistake by NOT getting an extra "out of the box" long ago. Tsk. He thinks that is utter and complete failure to complete a Life Promise and shows moral turpitude (or something that smells strongly, maybe like paint thinner). You said you would. The law was changed accordingly. You have subsequently done nothing but make excuses. In short, you lied. No big deal. You do it all the time. Another says I can ONLY "show interest in radio" by getting an amateur radio license FIRST. Another lie. No one has ever said that. What HAS been said is that you have no established basis from which to make INFORMED opinons on Amateur Radio practice and policy since you do NOT have any practical experience as an Amateur. [no real reason given except he was bereft of any comback and was trying to wing a reply] Yet another blatant lie. You ahve been given REAMS of reasons. You just choose to ignore all of them in preference to your own EXCUSES. Well, that's just too #$%^!!!! bad since I made that decision back 48 years ago, got a First Phone and started working in broadcasting, using it. Only one other seems to have a working time machine for regular trips back there...and before. Uh huh. Lennie, YOU are the ONLY one in this forum who routinely discusses ANY form of radio communication more than 10 years old. Those of us who ARE licensed and ARE active in the hobby discuss current events and future plans. When I see "good debate" in here, I'll flag you down, run it up the pole, prolly take out a billboard. NO, repeat NO "debate" in here is really possible with anyone not-licensed- in-any-amateur-service correspondent. That's been proved so many times over by public example in 8 years, that it shouldn't need any comment. You're right...It doesn't need any comment. When it comes to YOU, all "debate" will be in your favor, on subjects YOU want to discuss, and only within parameters YOU establish. Sucks to be you. And you'd be ABLE to enter into more of those discussions IF you had some experience from which to draw upon. A tour of duty in postwar Japan in the 50's is NOT "current events", nor is it even marginally relevent. This forum is EXCLUSIVELY for already-licensed amateurs to talk about getting INTO amateur radio? Of course. League has all the answers, just Follow The Law, do like everyone else did, and shuthehellup. Simple. Actually, exchange "Lennie" for "League", and you have exactly summated all of your posts in this forum. Morse code testing is The Law. All must Obey the Law. I see...You have a problem with obeying the law. That's obvious, of course. Nobody EVER should think heretical thoughts about Changing The Law. Not at all...Just have a reasonable reason for changing it. "Just because everyone else is" is not a reason. Heresy! Blasphemy! [bite thy tongues, irreverent ones] Tsk. Some of us do think the Law ought to be changed here and there. So do those of us who ARE licensed Amateurs. We've said so repeatedly. But since YOU disagree with OUR opinions, all we get is hateful bile and distortions from you. Better call the Department of Homeland Security! The future looks full of tension and anxiety for the Antique Radiotelegraphy Society (ARS). --- So, no like to work with raw data on U.S. amateur radio statistics? So far, that's what Jim Miccolis HAS been doing. Real people with real lcienses...Not club, military, RACES or other categories that don't reflect true numbers of users. It doesn't take a degree in statistics to follow Jim's numbers. Afraid to see the trends showing the changing interests in the hobby? Like for the last dozen years? Don't worry. JPM will be the savior, showing numbers that ease your worries, calm your anxieties. He is NEVER wrong. He say so...mebbe. Meanwhile, rail and rant at all those who don't think quite like you do, Mike. Obviously we are all "mistaken" and "in error" (for that good old "plain simple fact'). You will be vindicated. Nothing the NCTA can possibly be right, can it? [some of us are so nice and obliging that we deliberately make errors...all to make you satisfied...heheheheheh] So...you admit to making deliberate errors. Why am I not surprised? Putz. Steve, K4YZ |
Lenof21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes: So. They *are* prohibited from operating in the amateur bands. That is significantly different than "not being prohibited from doing anything" Of course it is. However, commercial band users MAY operate in ham bands which are not allocated exclusively for amateurs. :-) There is a world of difference between that statement and your statement that Hams were free to operate during the two year period after their license expires. For that matter, the federal government seldom requires "licensing" of radio operators, civilian or military, whether in or outside of amateur bands. So what? ALL of Title 47 C.F.R. applies to ALL USA citizens. Yes, that includes amateur radio licensees. :-) In that you will find that, if there is a REAL emergency situation, there is NO prohibition against anyone using any frequency, any mode for help. True. Ain't gonna be no Raddio Polizei saying "papers please" while wearting leather topcoats and armbands in a REAL emergency. Emergency comms is in another ongoing thread. Do you believe that we are trying to argue that expired licensees can't use any frequencies during an emergency? I don't recall anyone saying that. So, have the court clerk read back the court transcript. :-) Check, check.... is this microphone on?......OK.... Lenof21 All licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating in their grace Lenof21 period. There is no necessity (nor sense) to eliminate those in the Lenof21 grace period from those in the normal 10-year license period from Lenof21 any class totals. Don't get your legal briefs in a twist. Glad you feel that way! 8^) Some argumentative amateur word-twister is going to pop in and shout/holler "this is an amateur radio newsgroup!" Well, if so, why is all the Chat Room nonsense going on between "regulars" in here which is NOT about amateur radio? :-) Hehe, Word twisting? Commercial licenses and Emergency operations dictated by an expired license? So, in here, what is different with everyone else? Lots of gabble about politics, economics, business activities none of the gabblers have been in, the divinity of morsemanship ability above all other amateur skills. What is different is that there is (or should be) an expectation of the initial premise being true. It is simply not true that: Lenof21 All licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating in Lenof21 their grace period. There is no necessity (nor sense) to Lenof21 eliminate those in the grace period from those in the normal Lenof21 10-year license period from any class totals. You appear to want us to simply allow you to be "right", regardless of your incorrect statements. No thanks! 8^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes: Lenof21 wrote: In article . net, "Grümwîtch thë Ünflãppåblê" writes: "Lenof21" wrote in message ... : The license holder isn't prohibited from doing anything after : midnight of the last day of his/her 10-year-active-license period...and : for two more years into that grace period. : Untrue. (Some would say an outright lie) They are certainly prohibited from operating their amateur radio station without supervision, since they possess no valid operator license. Now what did I write that was UNTRUE? Hmmm? You wrote in an earlier message: Lenof21 All licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating in their grace Lenof21 period. There is no necessity (nor sense) to eliminate those in the Lenof21 grace period from those in the normal 10-year license period from Lenof21 any class totals. Then you appear to have modified it to say: "The license holder isn't prohibited from doing anything after midnight of the last day of his/her 10-year-active-license period." Was anything written about "operating an amateur radio station?" No. :-) Yes, because you wrote the above mentioned quote in an earlier message They could have a valid commercial license and not be prohibited from using that. Do commercial licenses have 10 year terms and 2 year grace periods? And if so, should you be required to include them in your ARS license numbers? 8^) Note: A commercial license does not allow operation IN the amateur bands...just like an amateur license does NOT allow operation outside of amateur bands. In any event, a license holder *is* prohibited from doing something when the license is in the grace period. Yes, and that is operation within the privileges of their expired license. So. They *are* prohibited from operating in the amateur bands. That is significantly different than "not being prohibited from doing anything" ALL of Title 47 C.F.R. applies to ALL USA citizens. Yes, that includes amateur radio licensees. :-) In that you will find that, if there is a REAL emergency situation, there is NO prohibition against anyone using any frequency, any mode for help. Doesn't change the fact that a licensee with a license in the grace period is prohibited from operating an amateur station in a non-emergency situation. I guess the "only ones who count" in here are the Regulars, the life-stylers, those who eat-breathe-sleep amateur radio. They are NEVER wrong. Their words are TRVTH itself, engraved in eternal marble. Their shall be no discourse with them...of course. In that you are incorrect. I don't mind having a good discussion, and even enjoy a good argument. But I do expect a good argument with proper give and take. Some times I am wrong, and some times right. But your case would be better served if you were to simply admit your mistakes and move on to good debate. Agreed. Len made a mistake about 97.21(b), but he seems reluctant to admit it. Note that the position he is taking is modifying. I've worked with a few who do this. They really hate being wrong, but when they are proven wrong, they slowly modify their stance so that eventually they either agree with you, or " you just didn't understand" what they were saying in the first place Think about *why* A couple possibilities: 1. He was genuinely wrong. He made an incorrect statement, and is embarrassed about it. Some people absolutely *hate* being incorrect on anything. 2. He is making deliberate incorrect statements simply to invoke others in arguments. This could be an entertainment issue, or perhaps a loneliness thing. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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