who cares?

arrl


"N2EY" wrote in message
m...
These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

As of May 14, 2000:

Novice - 49,329
Tech - 205,394
Tech Plus - 128,860
General - 112,677
Advanced - 99,782
Extra - 78,750

Total Tech/TechPlus - 334,254

Total all classes - 674,792

As of July 15, 2004:

Novice - 30,891 (decrease of 18,438)
Technician - 262,355 (increase of 56,961)
Technician Plus - 58,172 (decrease of 70,688)
General - 139,354 (increase of 26,677)
Advanced - 79,368 (decrease of 20,414)
Extra - 105,840 (increase of 27,090)

Total Tech/TechPlus - 320,527 (decrease of 13,727)

Total all classes - 675,620 (increase of 828)

73 de Jim, N2EY

Why would you fake being the ARRL when you are using comcast.net?

arrl.org wrote:
Who cares? We at the Arrl only care about introducing new prospective
amateur radio operators into this beloved hobby so that they buy some books
and subscribe to our mag.

Arrl.org
Newington, CT

These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

As of May 14, 2000:

Novice - 49,329
Tech - 205,394
Tech Plus - 128,860
General - 112,677
Advanced - 99,782
Extra - 78,750

Total Tech/TechPlus - 334,254

Total all classes - 674,792

As of August 15, 2004:

Novice - 30,707 (decrease of 18,622)
Technician - 263,316 (increase of 57,922)
Technician Plus - 57,609 (decrease of 71,251)
General - 139,236 (increase of 26,559)
Advanced - 79,166 (decrease of 20,621)
Extra - 105,659 (increase of 26,909)

Total Tech/TechPlus - 320,925 (decrease of 13,329)

Total all classes - 675,693 (increase of 901)

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

snip

Total Tech/TechPlus - 320,925 (decrease of 13,329)

Total all classes - 675,693 (increase of 901)

Good to see that the total numbers increased *despite* the "Great Falloff"

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

snip

Total Tech/TechPlus - 320,925 (decrease of 13,329)

Total all classes - 675,693 (increase of 901)

Good to see that the total numbers increased *despite* the "Great Falloff"

- Mike KB3EIA -

?Great Extinction?

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

snip

Total Tech/TechPlus - 320,925 (decrease of 13,329)

Total all classes - 675,693 (increase of 901)

Good to see that the total numbers increased *despite* the "Great Falloff"

We have only 901 more hams today than we had when the whole restructuring
business came into being more than 4 years ago. (Some "professionals" can't
seem to even get a Technician license out of the box, despite the reduction in
written testing as well as code).

Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code test to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing the
written tests.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code test
to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing the
written tests.


Of course not, all it did was give Lazy Ass people like Karl a FREE UPGRADE

"William" wrote in message
om...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

snip

Total Tech/TechPlus - 320,925 (decrease of 13,329)

Total all classes - 675,693 (increase of 901)

Good to see that the total numbers increased *despite* the "Great
Falloff"

We have only 901 more hams today than we had when the whole
restructuring
business came into being more than 4 years ago. (Some "professionals"
can't
seem to even get a Technician license out of the box, despite the
reduction in
written testing as well as code).

Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code
test to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing
the
written tests.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Probably too little, too late. People
just don't want to learn the code. Either
that or people just don't want to become hams.
We have an insider who might be able to shed
some light on those issues.

It's difficult for people to develop an interest in ham radio when they have
never heard of it. Most people that I know who are not hams never even
heard about it until they met me.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code test to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing the
written tests.


True of the code, but the writtens are substationally the same before
and after restructuring. Oh, element 4 has a few less questions than
old elements 4a plus 4b had, but it's the same
material you have to study.
And of course you won't know exactly what questions you'll get.

Maybe a few advertisements placed in magazines (horrors) CBers
and (even worse!) freebanders read can find some new "born
again" "repentant" people to get a ham license and swear off
freebanding...? Now that the sunspots are out of season?

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message ...
"William" wrote in message
om...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

snip

Total Tech/TechPlus - 320,925 (decrease of 13,329)

Total all classes - 675,693 (increase of 901)

Good to see that the total numbers increased *despite* the "Great
Falloff"

We have only 901 more hams today than we had when the whole
restructuring
business came into being more than 4 years ago. (Some "professionals"
can't
seem to even get a Technician license out of the box, despite the
reduction in
written testing as well as code).

Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code
test to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing
the
written tests.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Probably too little, too late. People
just don't want to learn the code. Either
that or people just don't want to become hams.
We have an insider who might be able to shed
some light on those issues.

It's difficult for people to develop an interest in ham radio when they have
never heard of it. Most people that I know who are not hams never even
heard about it until they met me.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee, I got beat up on here a couple of years ago for saying that you
almost had to know a ham to become a ham.

Hi, hi.

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/17/2004 8:38 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...
(WA8ULX) wrote in message
...
Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code
test
to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing
the
written tests.

Of course not, all it did was give Lazy Ass people like Karl a FREE
UPGRADE

Karl who?

When and how did you get *your* Extra, Bruce? Was it in front of an
FCC examiner? 20 wpm code, send and receive? Did you take the old
written tests, too?

Or did you bypass all that and get it after April 15, 2000 - just like
the folks you call "lazy"?

N2EY

Well, well, well! I think Jimmy Who found his backbone.

Maybe he'll stand up to Steve's abuses next, if he doesn't fear legal
action or "Dialing..."

All I can say is, "Bravo!"

Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.

As for Jim...He's quite independent. He and I disagree on a great many
things and always manage to not have to resort to the type of conduct that you
and Lennie the Liar seem to find necessary.

That would be, in particular, lying to each otehr or calling each otehr
names.

As for "abuses"...What abuses, Brain?

You lie, I call you a liar.

You dance to Lennie's stringpulling, I call you Puppetboy.

You act like you know it all when it's evident you know nothing, I
sarcastically call you "Brain". You cringe at that diminuitive, yet you seem
to relish doing it to others in spades.

Sucks to be you, Brain...You're just slightly more transparent than wax
paper, and about as useful.

Steve, K4YZ

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code test
to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing the
written tests.

True of the code, but the writtens are substationally the same before
and after restructuring. Oh, element 4 has a few less questions than
old elements 4a plus 4b had, but it's the same
material you have to study.
And of course you won't know exactly what questions you'll get.

IIRC, under the old system it took 5 written tests totalling 190 questions to
reach full privileges. Heck, it took 2 writtens totalling 65 questions to get a
Tech! That has been reduced to 3 written tests totalling 120 questions, A Tech
requires only a single 35 question test.

That's a significant reduction, IMHO. But it hasn't resulted in sustained
growth. Neither has the loss of nearly all code testing. Nor the no-code-test
Technician, nor code test waivers, etc. etc.

Maybe a few advertisements placed in magazines (horrors) CBers
and (even worse!) freebanders read can find some new "born
again" "repentant" people to get a ham license and swear off
freebanding...? Now that the sunspots are out of season?

I don't think so. In my experience, a lot of those folks simply don't want to
be licensed. Has nothing to do with the tests, and everything to do with
perception.

Publicity to the general public is one thing that's needed.

73 de Jim, N2EY

IIRC, under the old system it took 5 written tests totalling 190 questions to
reach full privileges. Heck, it took 2 writtens totalling 65 questions to get a
Tech! That has been reduced to 3 written tests totalling 120 questions, A Tech
requires only a single 35 question test.

That's a significant reduction, IMHO.

I still think that the odds of passing a 100 question test and a 10
question test, if the questions are of the same level of difficulty,
is about the same. Anyway...
But it hasn't resulted in sustained
growth. Neither has the loss of nearly all code testing. Nor the no-code-test
Technician, nor code test waivers, etc. etc.

True, but I don't know why.


Maybe a few advertisements placed in magazines (horrors) CBers
and (even worse!) freebanders read can find some new "born
again" "repentant" people to get a ham license and swear off
freebanding...? Now that the sunspots are out of season?


I don't think so. In my experience, a lot of those folks simply don't want to
be licensed. Has nothing to do with the tests, and everything to do with
perception.

Maybe you're right. Some years ago I exchanged a few emails with a
freebander hobbyist trying to convince him that a ham license would
be a good thing for him to get. Not by shameing him for freebanding,
but telling of the many things you can do legally on many different
kinds of bands as a ham. But he mentioned an experience of not
liking the hams at some random ham club he once visited. That's
the preception issue you mentioned.

It was a long shot....


Publicity to the general public is one thing that's needed.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/18/2004 7:36 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.

You say that just so long as he stays out of your way and
"never is heard a discouraging word." Yet he's been giving you subtle
hints to back off of Len, but you just don't get it (because you're
nuts and cannot NOT respond to Len). We'll see if he can stand
up to someone other than Bruce, and you'll change your tune when he
tells you to quit making an jerk of yourself. Best of Luck.

Well, Brain...

There ya go spouting off without facts again.

Suggest you balance the number of LennieRants against the total number of
posts I've made, either to him or about him.

The numbers will, of course, prove you wrong.

There ya go...Running off at the mouth again, Brain.

Are you EVER going to learn...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

IIRC, under the old system it took 5 written tests totalling 190 questions
to
reach full privileges. Heck, it took 2 writtens totalling 65 questions to
get a
Tech! That has been reduced to 3 written tests totalling 120 questions, A
Tech requires only a single 35 question test.

That's a significant reduction, IMHO.

I still think that the odds of passing a 100 question test and a 10
question test, if the questions are of the same level of difficulty,
is about the same. Anyway...

Maybe. But which *appears* to be more difficult to most newcomers:

"If you want to be a ham, you have to pass two tests, with a total of 100
questions"

or

"If you want to be a ham, you have to pass a 10 question test"

?

But it hasn't resulted in sustained
growth. Neither has the loss of nearly all code testing. Nor the
no-code-test
Technician, nor code test waivers, etc. etc.

True, but I don't know why.

Nobody really does.

But all this indicates that the old nocodetest mantra that "code tests are
keeping out hordes of 'otherwise qualified' people" is simply false. And now
folks like NCVEC (which is to say, W5YI and a few buddies) are pushing for even
simpler entry licensing. Which is simply wrong.

I think lack of publicity is one big factor. Another is competition from other
technical avocations. Add to this the fact that some of the reasons to be a ham
years ago have vanished. Example: I know some hams who got licenses simply to
keep in touch with family members. Decades ago, when longdistance telephone
calls were expensive, it was family members across the continent. Years ago,
when cell phones were expensive, it was for local honeydew comms. Today those
reasons have all but vanished.

Maybe a few advertisements placed in magazines (horrors) CBers
and (even worse!) freebanders read can find some new "born
again" "repentant" people to get a ham license and swear off
freebanding...? Now that the sunspots are out of season?

I don't think so. In my experience, a lot of those folks simply don't want
to
be licensed. Has nothing to do with the tests, and everything to do with
perception.

Maybe you're right. Some years ago I exchanged a few emails with a
freebander hobbyist trying to convince him that a ham license would
be a good thing for him to get. Not by shameing him for freebanding,
but telling of the many things you can do legally on many different
kinds of bands as a ham. But he mentioned an experience of not
liking the hams at some random ham club he once visited. That's
the preception issue you mentioned.

It was a long shot....

That's one perception. Here's another:

Hams are licensed by the feds and the vast majority of them follow the rules -
all the rules. Which means that even though they could run superpower, they
don't, and even though their rigs go outside the ham bands, they won't use 'em
there. Etc. Part of the reason is that the FCC knows where hams live, etc., but
a bigger part is that "it's just not done" by hams.

IOW, most of hamdom is pretty straight-arrow law-abiding.

Freeband is exactly the opposite. Almost everyhting hams consider important,
they ignore, and vice versa. So why would one be attracted to the other?

73 de Jim, N2EY

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/17/2004 8:38 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...
(WA8ULX) wrote in message
...
Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code
test
to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing
the
written tests.

Of course not, all it did was give Lazy Ass people like Karl a FREE
UPGRADE

Karl who?

When and how did you get *your* Extra, Bruce? Was it in front of an
FCC examiner? 20 wpm code, send and receive? Did you take the old
written tests, too?

Or did you bypass all that and get it after April 15, 2000 - just like
the folks you call "lazy"?

N2EY

Well, well, well! I think Jimmy Who found his backbone.

Maybe he'll stand up to Steve's abuses next, if he doesn't fear legal
action or "Dialing..."

All I can say is, "Bravo!"

Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.

As for Jim...He's quite independent.

Thanks, Steve, but this isn't the first time I've commented on 'ULX's
nonsense about "real hams" and such.

For example check out:

28 Sep 2003:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain


03 Oct 2003:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

just to name a few.

He and I disagree on a great many
things and always manage to not have to resort to the type of conduct that you
and Lennie the Liar seem to find necessary.

Gentlemen can disagree without being disagreeable.

That would be, in particular, lying to each otehr or calling each otehr
names.

As for "abuses"...What abuses, Brain?

You lie, I call you a liar.

You dance to Lennie's stringpulling, I call you Puppetboy.

You act like you know it all when it's evident you know nothing, I
sarcastically call you "Brain". You cringe at that diminuitive, yet you seem
to relish doing it to others in spades.

Sucks to be you, Brain...You're just slightly more transparent than wax
paper, and about as useful.

If all that's true, why bother with it, Steve? AOL has wonderful
newsgroup filters. I only saw this because you responded.

Let's clarify a few things. We all know Mr. Burke isn't going to tell
us anything significant about his /T5 operation. It's just the
mechanism for
a shaggy dog story, to involve others without ever getting to the
point or answering a direct question. Check out:

23 Oct 1998

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm... output=gplain

for more info than you've been able to gather in the past few years.


None of this should be a surprise, of course. Some folks don't let
facts get in the way of a good rant:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

You and I are long-time amateurs, who enjoy and use Morse Code, so of
course we're targets of everything certain folks can think up. Worse,
we're Extras with 1x2 calls, which makes it that much worse. We and
our code test are blamed for everything bad that happens in amateur
radio - and credited with nothing that's good.

This was all explained even before I was on rrap:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

Note the date.

Why bother with folks who are so negative, when there's so many good,
fun things to do in ham radio?

73 de Jim, N2EY

Hardly the work of a "nut", I'd say."

Karl is a NUT no matter how you look at it. hes the Clown who sees Black
Helicopters Flying over house. Hes the one who sees Pictures of GUNS on
Computer and thinks he going to be shot.
Hes the Morron who Claims CW was the only reason he couldnt upgrade, AND THEN
WHEN THE cw TEST WENT AWAY it took him a year to Upgrade.Hes the one who Claims
he will never support reducing written test, now hes all for it. Hes the Idiot
who was going to bring all this great new Digital Stuff to Ham radio, and so
far we have seen nothing. Som again, tell me why MR KOOK KARL is your hero.

N2EY wrote:


Hams are licensed by the feds and the vast majority of them follow the rules -
all the rules. Which means that even though they could run superpower, they
don't, and even though their rigs go outside the ham bands, they won't use 'em
there. Etc. Part of the reason is that the FCC knows where hams live, etc., but
a bigger part is that "it's just not done" by hams.

Most licensed car drivers follow the rules of the road even if there
are no cops around. Most understand that the system works only
because the rules are followed, and thus most do follow the rules.
And the same for most hams on the ham bands. There's little point
calling CQ out of band as you won't find other hams out of band.
And there is plenty of interesting things to do in band. As for
super power, our legal limit is on the order of a kilowatt (varies
a bit depending on mode and subband) which is plenty enough if
you really gotta snag that rare DX. Throw in a beam if you
want (though beams for 160m are kinda hard to come by...).
Other rules like "no business traffic" are there to protect
our bands from being taken over by business users. No broadcasting
is also there to keep the bands useable for normal 2 way comms
(think about how often you actually push the PTT button or
activate the VOX, maybe 15 minutes a day at most unless you're
calling CQ in a contest). That's a duty cycle of 1% or less
for most of us on days we turn the rig on. And if you only do
that once every 2 weeks it drops to 0.07% duty cycle. Broadcasters
are on about 100% of the time, and the bands would fill up pretty
quickly with trash. Thus that rule.

We don't have that many stupid rules nowadays. Used to be you
had to mail a letter to the FCC telling if you were going to be
mobile for more than 2 weeks. But Phil (IIRC) mentioned that
the FCC never acted on any of that stuff, so why bother making
hams do it? So it was dropped.


IOW, most of hamdom is pretty straight-arrow law-abiding.

I've committed a few infractions by accident (phone
in the CW band for example) but soon caught it and corrected
it myself. No need for the FCC to kick down the door....
The FCC knows that people occasionally make mistakes and
only acts if you keep on doing it for long periods of time.
Then it's on purpose and you know it.


Freeband is exactly the opposite. Almost everyhting hams consider important,
they ignore, and vice versa. So why would one be attracted to the other?

There's an outside chance that some of them don't know that ham radio
exists. Nahhhh.... not likely at all....

William wrote:
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/17/2004 8:38 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
le.com...

(WA8ULX) wrote in message

...

Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code

test

to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing

the

written tests.

Of course not, all it did was give Lazy Ass people like Karl a FREE

UPGRADE

Karl who?

When and how did you get *your* Extra, Bruce? Was it in front of an
FCC examiner? 20 wpm code, send and receive? Did you take the old
written tests, too?

Or did you bypass all that and get it after April 15, 2000 - just like
the folks you call "lazy"?

N2EY

Well, well, well! I think Jimmy Who found his backbone.

Maybe he'll stand up to Steve's abuses next, if he doesn't fear legal
action or "Dialing..."

All I can say is, "Bravo!"

Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.


You say that just so long as he stays out of your way and
"never is heard a discouraging word." Yet he's been giving you subtle
hints to back off of Len, but you just don't get it (because you're
nuts and cannot NOT respond to Len). We'll see if he can stand
up to someone other than Bruce, and you'll change your tune when he
tells you to quit making an jerk of yourself. Best of Luck.

You are confusing good manners with weakness. You are also confusing
good manners with backbone.

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/18/2004 7:36 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.

You say that just so long as he stays out of your way and
"never is heard a discouraging word." Yet he's been giving you subtle
hints to back off of Len, but you just don't get it (because you're
nuts and cannot NOT respond to Len). We'll see if he can stand
up to someone other than Bruce, and you'll change your tune when he
tells you to quit making an jerk of yourself. Best of Luck.

Well, Brain...

There ya go spouting off without facts again.

Fact #1. Jim HAS suggested that you stop it with Len.

In a way, nursie has slacked off a bit. He doesn't use a Yiddish
pejorative for penis in his sign-offs to replies...at least to me. :-)

Suggest you balance the number of LennieRants against the total number
of posts I've made, either to him or about him.

Fact #2. You are unbalanced.

I would say NUTS.

The numbers will, of course, prove you wrong.

Fact #3. You get to do the math.

Beyond 2 + 2 = 4 he might have trouble...

There ya go...Running off at the mouth again, Brain.

Fact #4. That's what you're doing.

True. Nursie seldom replies on subjects, almost entirely on
personalities.

Are you EVER going to learn...?!?!

Fact #5. I learned a long time ago that you're nuts.

Most of us readers learned that a long time ago.

Still, nursie thinks he is a shining example of U.S. amateur radio.

NOT a role model him...

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/17/2004 8:38 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...
(WA8ULX) wrote in message
...
Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the
code
test
to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did
reducing
the
written tests.

Of course not, all it did was give Lazy Ass people like Karl a FREE
UPGRADE

Karl who?

When and how did you get *your* Extra, Bruce? Was it in front of an
FCC examiner? 20 wpm code, send and receive? Did you take the old
written tests, too?

Or did you bypass all that and get it after April 15, 2000 - just like
the folks you call "lazy"?

N2EY

Well, well, well! I think Jimmy Who found his backbone.

Maybe he'll stand up to Steve's abuses next, if he doesn't fear legal
action or "Dialing..."

All I can say is, "Bravo!"

Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.

You say that just so long as he stays out of your way and
"never is heard a discouraging word." Yet he's been giving you subtle
hints to back off of Len, but you just don't get it (because you're
nuts and cannot NOT respond to Len). We'll see if he can stand
up to someone other than Bruce, and you'll change your tune when he
tells you to quit making an jerk of yourself. Best of Luck.

Nursie isn't affected by anything "subtle." Has to be a 2 x 4 or
larger on the head to get her attention... :-)

LHA / WMD

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/17/2004 8:38 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...
(WA8ULX) wrote in message
...
Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code
test
to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing
the
written tests.

Of course not, all it did was give Lazy Ass people like Karl a FREE
UPGRADE

Karl who?

When and how did you get *your* Extra, Bruce? Was it in front of an
FCC examiner? 20 wpm code, send and receive? Did you take the old
written tests, too?

Or did you bypass all that and get it after April 15, 2000 - just like
the folks you call "lazy"?

N2EY

Well, well, well! I think Jimmy Who found his backbone.

Maybe he'll stand up to Steve's abuses next, if he doesn't fear legal
action or "Dialing..."

All I can say is, "Bravo!"

Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.

As for Jim...He's quite independent.

Thanks, Steve, but this isn't the first time I've commented on 'ULX's
nonsense about "real hams" and such.

For example check out:

28 Sep 2003:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain


03 Oct 2003

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

just to name a few.

Just to name a few? I think you've exhausted Google.

You sat by for Years while Bruce abused this newsgroup with his
abusive, illiterate postings. Only after you suggested that he was
brilliant, and I kept calling you on it, did you say the first honest
thing about Bruce.

He and I disagree on a great many
things and always manage to not have to resort to the type of conduct that you
and Lennie the Liar seem to find necessary.

Gentlemen can disagree without being disagreeable.

I find Steve highly disagreeable. He's actually abusive.

That would be, in particular, lying to each otehr or calling each otehr
names.

As for "abuses"...What abuses, Brain?

You lie, I call you a liar.

You dance to Lennie's stringpulling, I call you Puppetboy.

You act like you know it all when it's evident you know nothing, I
sarcastically call you "Brain". You cringe at that diminuitive, yet you seem
to relish doing it to others in spades.

Sucks to be you, Brain...You're just slightly more transparent than wax
paper, and about as useful.

If all that's true, why bother with it, Steve? AOL has wonderful
newsgroup filters. I only saw this because you responded.

Yes, Steve, why bother? You won't get a QSL card out of it.

Let's clarify a few things. We all know Mr. Burke isn't going to tell
us anything significant about his /T5 operation. It's just the
mechanism for
a shaggy dog story, to involve others without ever getting to the
point or answering a direct question. Check out:

23 Oct 1998

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm... output=gplain

for more info than you've been able to gather in the past few years.

None of this should be a surprise, of course. Some folks don't let
facts get in the way of a good rant:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

You and I are long-time amateurs, who enjoy and use Morse Code, so of
course we're targets of everything certain folks can think up. Worse,
we're Extras with 1x2 calls, which makes it that much worse. We and
our code test are blamed for everything bad that happens in amateur
radio - and credited with nothing that's good.

This was all explained even before I was on rrap:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

Note the date.

Note the date that Bruce began his abusive postings.

Note the date that you first noted his abusive manner.

Note the date that Steve began his abusive postings.

Note that you have yet to make a note of his abusiveness.

Yet you have no problem with claiming that Len or I are "negative."

Hi, hi! Good old PCTA double standard.

Why bother with folks who are so negative, when there's so many good,
fun things to do in ham radio?

Jim, this isn't ham radio.

I'd be perfectly pleased if Steve were to spend all of his spare time
actually playing radio commando instead of abusing people on here.

And for what it's worth, have you noticed that we used to have an ANON
poster on here going by the "handle" of Quitefine? Steve has an
unnatural attraction for every ANON poster on here EXCEPT for
Quitefine. Can you explain this?

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

William wrote:
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/17/2004 8:38 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
gle.com...

(WA8ULX) wrote in message

...

Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code

test

to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing

the

written tests.

Of course not, all it did was give Lazy Ass people like Karl a FREE

UPGRADE

Karl who?

When and how did you get *your* Extra, Bruce? Was it in front of an
FCC examiner? 20 wpm code, send and receive? Did you take the old
written tests, too?

Or did you bypass all that and get it after April 15, 2000 - just like
the folks you call "lazy"?

N2EY

Well, well, well! I think Jimmy Who found his backbone.

Maybe he'll stand up to Steve's abuses next, if he doesn't fear legal
action or "Dialing..."

All I can say is, "Bravo!"

Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.


You say that just so long as he stays out of your way and
"never is heard a discouraging word." Yet he's been giving you subtle
hints to back off of Len, but you just don't get it (because you're
nuts and cannot NOT respond to Len). We'll see if he can stand
up to someone other than Bruce, and you'll change your tune when he
tells you to quit making an jerk of yourself. Best of Luck.

You are confusing good manners with weakness.

No. YOU are confusing the PCTA extra double standard with
socially-acceptible, logical behavior.

You are also confusing good manners with backbone.

No again. Given the enormous outpouring of vituperation from that
modern ham role model (aka "nursie"), there can be no other
recourse than telling the truth. HOW that recourse is done is
apparently a sore point with you.

YOU condone nursie and whatever he says...because he is another
PCTA extra (and that "club" must stick together...why, I don't know).

Jimmie Who writes so bloody much in here that he can't come to
a good point. YOU are confusing enormous content with "good
manners." shrug

Now WHY are you wading in here in yet-another-nursie-does-the
Yell-Yell versus Everyone Else?

Back to your penalty box...

LHA / WMD

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:


These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

snip

Total Tech/TechPlus - 320,925 (decrease of 13,329)

Total all classes - 675,693 (increase of 901)

Good to see that the total numbers increased *despite* the "Great Falloff"


We have only 901 more hams today than we had when the whole restructuring
business came into being more than 4 years ago. (Some "professionals" can't
seem to even get a Technician license out of the box, despite the reduction in
written testing as well as code).

Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code test to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing the
written tests.

I just gotta say it.....well DUH!

Things are not made popular by making them easy. Things are not made
popular by giving them away. A reasonably intelligent person can learn
the tests, the old "hard tests" tests or new "easy tests".

It doesn't matter. If a person has to spend a few more weeks learning
something, so be it.

It won't chase them away.

It doesn't matter if there is a Morse code test or not. Not one little bit.

Too many people seem to have thought that elimination of the Morse code
test would bring an influx of new eager hams. It will not.

If you think that elimination of the Morse test will help, You are
wrong. If you think that retention of the Morse test will help, you are
wrong.

Karl, for all his bluster, has no more clue about what will attract new
people to the field than most PCTA's. He and the other CW haters simply
hate CW, and rationalize their hatred into "Ham radio will die unless we
get rid of the test.

Anything that needs rationalized is probably wrong to begin with. And
they are wrong to begin with.

You probably agree so far. You won't soon.

The difficulty or lack of "difficult tests" or the Morse code test
likewise has *no* effect whatsoever on the quality of the Ham community.

Ahh, what *does* grow Ham radio?

Hams grow Ham radio.

And an awful lot aren't doing it.

Bitching, whining, and moaning about the good old days and how much
better hams were then is only going to chase new people away. If I were
the sensitive sort, I would have quit Ham radio ten times over. I've had
to listen to Olde Tymers complaining about how only jerks and CB'ers are
joining the ranks, and how anyone can become an Extra nowadays. I've
listened to them claiming that all new Hams are stupid, and other
insults thrown at the new guys. At one time, I would gently remind them
that "I resemble that remark", but that gets old after the umpteenth time.

Answer me this, is that an inviting atmosphere? How many people enter
hobbies to be ridiculed?

Hams *must* provide a welcoming atmosphere, not inject their own
personal preferences into the mix, and take these new people and show
them they are valued on the air. Then word of mouth will spread among
the technologically inclined, and we won't have to be discussing how to
grow Ham radio.

The Morse code test could disappear tomorrow, and as long as Hams
encouraged a welcoming atmosphere that encouraged quality, we would get
quality. The test could be retained, and as long as newcomers could have
a reasonable expectation that they would have a good experience, then
the hobby would grow.

We must heal ourselves!

- Nickle Extra, Mike KB3EIA -

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/18/2004 7:36 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...


Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.

You say that just so long as he stays out of your way and
"never is heard a discouraging word." Yet he's been giving you subtle
hints to back off of Len, but you just don't get it (because you're
nuts and cannot NOT respond to Len). We'll see if he can stand
up to someone other than Bruce, and you'll change your tune when he
tells you to quit making an jerk of yourself. Best of Luck.


Well, Brain...

There ya go spouting off without facts again.

Suggest you balance the number of LennieRants against the total number of
posts I've made, either to him or about him.

The numbers will, of course, prove you wrong.

There ya go...Running off at the mouth again, Brain.

Are you EVER going to learn...?!?!

Hey Steve.

Here is a good question.

Jim has suggested that you not engage with Lenover21 or Brian. I have
in the past also. There have been other things we have disagreed with.

And yet, between whatever Jim and you or myself have disagreed with, we
have always managed to keep it civil, am I not correct?

Hmmmmm, what would be the difference?

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article ,
(WA8ULX) writes:

Hardly the work of a "nut", I'd say."

Karl is a NUT no matter how you look at it.

I presume you mean Mr. Carl Stevenson, WK3C.

How so?

hes the Clown who sees Black
Helicopters Flying over house.

When did he say that?

I see large dark-colored helicopters flying over my house on occasion. Also
A-10 "Warthogs". They're from Willow Grove NAS. No problem.

Hes the one who sees Pictures of GUNS on
Computer and thinks he going to be shot.

When did he say that?

Hes the Morron who Claims CW was the only reason he couldnt upgrade, AND
THEN
WHEN THE cw TEST WENT AWAY it took him a year to Upgrade.

That much is true. However, you also waited until the code test went away. So
you took the same test he did.

Hes the one who Claims
he will never support reducing written test, now hes all for it.

For which sdtance he has been challenged repeatedly - by me and others.

Hes the Idiot
who was going to bring all this great new Digital Stuff to Ham radio, and so
far we have seen nothing.

He was challenged about that too.

On the other hand, WK3C has done a *lot* to fight the BPL threat. Not just
comment-writing but actual on-site observations and reports of same to FCC. His
connections in the industry didn't hurt our cause, either.

And ol' Carl knows how to spell, punctuate and capitalize correctly. Worthwhile
skills ;-)

Som again, tell me why MR KOOK KARL is your hero.

I don't know anybody by that name who is my "hero". WK3C sure isn;t my "hero".
But he has done a lot to fight the BPL threat, and I have thanked him and
supported him publicly and privately in that effort.

What have you done to fight BPL, Bruce?

N2EY

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


William wrote:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message

...

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/17/2004 8:38 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
ogle.com...


(WA8ULX) wrote in message

...


Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code

test


to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing

the


written tests.

Of course not, all it did was give Lazy Ass people like Karl a FREE

UPGRADE


Karl who?

When and how did you get *your* Extra, Bruce? Was it in front of an
FCC examiner? 20 wpm code, send and receive? Did you take the old
written tests, too?

Or did you bypass all that and get it after April 15, 2000 - just like
the folks you call "lazy"?

N2EY

Well, well, well! I think Jimmy Who found his backbone.

Maybe he'll stand up to Steve's abuses next, if he doesn't fear legal
action or "Dialing..."

All I can say is, "Bravo!"

Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.


You say that just so long as he stays out of your way and
"never is heard a discouraging word." Yet he's been giving you subtle
hints to back off of Len, but you just don't get it (because you're
nuts and cannot NOT respond to Len). We'll see if he can stand
up to someone other than Bruce, and you'll change your tune when he
tells you to quit making an jerk of yourself. Best of Luck.

You are confusing good manners with weakness.


No. YOU are confusing the PCTA extra double standard with
socially-acceptible, logical behavior.


You are also confusing good manners with backbone.


No again. Given the enormous outpouring of vituperation from that
modern ham role model (aka "nursie"), there can be no other
recourse than telling the truth. HOW that recourse is done is
apparently a sore point with you.

Nope. You two and Steve are all getting exactly what ya'all want out of
this newsgroup. Enjoy!


YOU condone nursie and whatever he says...because he is another
PCTA extra (and that "club" must stick together...why, I don't know.


Jimmie Who writes so bloody much in here that he can't come to
a good point. YOU are confusing enormous content with "good
manners." shrug

Now WHY are you wading in here in yet-another-nursie-does-the
Yell-Yell versus Everyone Else?

Back to your penalty box...


Trrying to tell me to shut up?

- Mike KB3EIA -

What have you done to fight BPL, Bruce?

N2EY


Not a Damn thing, And Im not about to either

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 8/19/2004 7:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:



Len Over 21 wrote:

No again. Given the enormous outpouring of vituperation from that
modern ham role model (aka "nursie"), there can be no other
recourse than telling the truth. HOW that recourse is done is
apparently a sore point with you.

Nope. You two and Steve are all getting exactly what ya'all want out of

this newsgroup. Enjoy!

Lennie obviously has a hard time with the idea of the truth, if we can
take this at face value, Mike.

YOU condone nursie and whatever he says...because he is another
PCTA extra (and that "club" must stick together...why, I don't know.


Jimmie Who writes so bloody much in here that he can't come to
a good point. YOU are confusing enormous content with "good
manners." shrug

Now WHY are you wading in here in yet-another-nursie-does-the
Yell-Yell versus Everyone Else?

Back to your penalty box...


Trrying to tell me to shut up?

Of course, Mike.

"Do As I Say, Not Do As I Do"....Lennie's Credo.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 8/19/2004 7:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:



Len Over 21 wrote:


No again. Given the enormous outpouring of vituperation from that
modern ham role model (aka "nursie"), there can be no other
recourse than telling the truth. HOW that recourse is done is
apparently a sore point with you.

Nope. You two and Steve are all getting exactly what ya'all want out of


this newsgroup. Enjoy!


Lennie obviously has a hard time with the idea of the truth, if we can
take this at face value, Mike.


YOU condone nursie and whatever he says...because he is another
PCTA extra (and that "club" must stick together...why, I don't know.


Jimmie Who writes so bloody much in here that he can't come to
a good point. YOU are confusing enormous content with "good
manners." shrug

Now WHY are you wading in here in yet-another-nursie-does-the
Yell-Yell versus Everyone Else?

Back to your penalty box...


Trrying to tell me to shut up?


Of course, Mike.

"Do As I Say, Not Do As I Do"....Lennie's Credo.

Hehe

Perhaps I don't post as he wants me to, you know, I'm too bland, and he
is on record as saying manners are a sign of weakness - but I won't
shut up. Len can of course, but me in his filters!

- Mike KB3EIA - Nickle Extra and PCTA -

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 8/19/2004 6:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:



Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/18/2004 7:36 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...


Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.

You say that just so long as he stays out of your way and
"never is heard a discouraging word." Yet he's been giving you subtle
hints to back off of Len, but you just don't get it (because you're
nuts and cannot NOT respond to Len). We'll see if he can stand
up to someone other than Bruce, and you'll change your tune when he
tells you to quit making an jerk of yourself. Best of Luck.


Well, Brain...

There ya go spouting off without facts again.

Suggest you balance the number of LennieRants against the total number
of
posts I've made, either to him or about him.

The numbers will, of course, prove you wrong.

There ya go...Running off at the mouth again, Brain.

Are you EVER going to learn...?!?!

Hey Steve.

Here is a good question.

Jim has suggested that you not engage with Lenover21 or Brian. I have
in the past also. There have been other things we have disagreed with.

And yet, between whatever Jim and you or myself have disagreed with, we

have always managed to keep it civil, am I not correct?

Hmmmmm, what would be the difference?

Well, Mike...It's probably because we disagree with each other without
calling each other Nazi's, jackbooted thugs, elitists, invent diminuitives for
each other, and generally treat each other with a modicum of respct when we
take each other on some point.

But that's just a guess on my part!

=)

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/19/2004 1:02 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/18/2004 7:36 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.

You say that just so long as he stays out of your way and
"never is heard a discouraging word." Yet he's been giving you subtle
hints to back off of Len, but you just don't get it (because you're
nuts and cannot NOT respond to Len). We'll see if he can stand
up to someone other than Bruce, and you'll change your tune when he
tells you to quit making an jerk of yourself. Best of Luck.

Well, Brain...

There ya go spouting off without facts again.

Fact #1. Jim HAS suggested that you stop it with Len.

Yes, he has.

Suggest you balance the number of LennieRants against the total number
of
posts I've made, either to him or about him.

Fact #2. You are unbalanced.

Hardly.

The mere number of activities I am involved in OTHER than RRAP negate that
assertion, Brain.

The numbers will, of course, prove you wrong.

Fact #3. You get to do the math.

The math's already been done.

You came up short.

Again.

There ya go...Running off at the mouth again, Brain.

Fact #4. That's what you're doing.

Nope.

Are you EVER going to learn...?!?!

Fact #5. I learned a long time ago that you're nuts.

If you think you have, you've not proven it. You've only run your mouth
off. Kinda like the post I am responding to. Trying to show off, but only
showing your butt.

Again.

Steve, K4YZ

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 8/19/2004 6:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:



Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:


Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/18/2004 7:36 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...


Jim's had his "backbone" for quite a while.

You say that just so long as he stays out of your way and
"never is heard a discouraging word." Yet he's been giving you subtle
hints to back off of Len, but you just don't get it (because you're
nuts and cannot NOT respond to Len). We'll see if he can stand
up to someone other than Bruce, and you'll change your tune when he
tells you to quit making an jerk of yourself. Best of Luck.


Well, Brain...

There ya go spouting off without facts again.

Suggest you balance the number of LennieRants against the total number

of

posts I've made, either to him or about him.

The numbers will, of course, prove you wrong.

There ya go...Running off at the mouth again, Brain.

Are you EVER going to learn...?!?!

Hey Steve.

Here is a good question.

Jim has suggested that you not engage with Lenover21 or Brian. I have
in the past also. There have been other things we have disagreed with.

And yet, between whatever Jim and you or myself have disagreed with, we


have always managed to keep it civil, am I not correct?

Hmmmmm, what would be the difference?


Well, Mike...It's probably because we disagree with each other without
calling each other Nazi's, jackbooted thugs, elitists, invent diminuitives for
each other, and generally treat each other with a modicum of respct when we
take each other on some point.

But that's just a guess on my part!

And a good guess it is. Kind of flies in the face of those that say one
cannot engage in disagreement with you.

- Mike KB3EIA -