In article ,
(Robert Hartung) writes:

The Morse Code Requirement
Is It Really The Reason People Turn Away?

Many people feel that the Morse Code requirement is the SOLE reason
why many people turn away from Amateur Radio. Well one group dose,
No-Code International, an organization dedicated to the abolition of
the Morse Code requirement for Amateur Radio licenses.

In this writers opinion, the code is only one of many reasons why
people turn away from Amateur Radio. Another, is the people already in
the hobby. If you been reviewing my website, you can see how the
people, not just the code requirement, can make, or brake a hobby. If
the people act no better then CB Agitator, or a show of being better
then others, can drive people away.

Let's not forget, many local clubs and members try to drive
undesirables away. Who is an undesirable? Well, undesirable are people
who have already join the hobby for reason other then local Clubs and
their members reasons. It varies from area too area, but it's somewhat
the same.

1) If you join the hobby to take advantage of the 2 meter and 70cm
bands and don't upgrade to the HF bands. Because, you like to talk to
family and friends. You could careless about DXing, filling your walls
with QSL cards, and etc.

2) You don't use as many "Q" signals as possible. Yes, I know they
were invented solely for CW and are totally inappropriate for bands
above 6 meters FM, but they are fun and entertaining. "I'm going to
QSY to the phone." Can you really change frequencies to the phone? QSL
used to mean, "I am acknowledging receipt", but now it appears to
mean, "yes" or "OK". I guess I missed it when the ARRL changed the
meaning. It is also best to use "OK" and "QSL" together.

3) Not following local codes of conducts, or rules made up by the
local clubs and not the FCC. For example, always giving the calls of
yourself and everyone who is (or has been) in the group, whether they
are still there or not. While this has been unnecessary for years, it
is still a great memory test. You may also use "and the group" if you
are an "old timer" or just have a bad memory.

All the above can classify you as an undesirable, and get you a life
sentence of ridicule, rude comments intended to make fun of your lack
of desire to upgrade, or your unwillingness to follow the leader. For
example, say you don't wish to upgrade, then your marked as being to
lazy to take the code test, or unable due to a lack of IQ.

If this is their idea of encouragement, well it doesn't seem like it
to me, it's down right RUDE, and drives people away. Which is the
whole idea, but is that really such a good idea?

If we destroy our own, then how do we expect newcomers to view us? If
your trying to buildup a hobby, then you need to deal with diversity,
not destroy it. Being difference from what is normal or expected is a
good thing. It helps make life, or in the care of amateur radio, a
much more divers, interesting and fun filled hobby. It's not the same
old thing, different day.

This will help bring new blood to the hobby, thus bring fresh, and new
ideas with it.

Robert, that's a fresher new look to the subject. I would agree with it.

Problem is, you will be villified in here, in this newsgroup by the
Kode Klutz Klan regulars. Their whole "amateur radio" experience
seems to be lurking and jumping all over any NCTA, throwing as
much garbage and filth as they can ON the person.

May the force be with you, and may the farce not stay your way.

Best Regards,
LHA

Robert,

A lot of folks have been portraying this 'doom and gloom', yet amateur radio
keeps growing. While I don't think Morse is a valid requirement, I don't
see the wisdom of lowering technical requirements. I read (was it last
year, or the year before?) where a newly minted tech was killed putting up a
tower. A 150 watts of rf is modest power, but what kind of voltage exists?
Sure, you have a 50 ohm feed point and you can calculate voltage and current
..... but that is at the 50 ohm feed point. The far ends of a dipole exhibit
around 1000 ohms impedance. That inverted V just might have some very
dangerous rf voltage at the ends. Should they be fairly close to the ground
..... not good for humans or animals.

Also, there have been lawsuits filed over cell phones causing brain cancer.
Some research shows inconclusive results; others show modulated rf does
affect cells. Guess what group sponsors the research showing inconclusive
results? Remember the tobacco companies? Also, most of the legal limit
amps are still vacuum tubes. These are running thousands of volts.
Questions concerning bleeder resistors and why they are there and what to do
to ensure they did their job before grabbing hold of items within the
enclosure are very legitimate questions. Questions as to what modes and
where (frequencies) are certainly appropriate. NCI may well be good, but I
don't think NTI (No Test International) would be a good idea; of course, if
we had no tests, many bands would be rendered as useful as 11 meters - but
the good side is that we might have a lot of folks remove their genes from
the human gene pool. For information on that, please visit:
http://www.darwinawards.com/



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Robert Hartung" wrote in message
om...
The Morse Code Requirement
Is It Really The Reason People Turn Away?

Many people feel that the Morse Code requirement is the SOLE reason
why many people turn away from Amateur Radio. Well one group dose,
No-Code International, an organization dedicated to the abolition of
the Morse Code requirement for Amateur Radio licenses.

In this writers opinion, the code is only one of many reasons why
people turn away from Amateur Radio. Another, is the people already in
the hobby. If you been reviewing my website, you can see how the
people, not just the code requirement, can make, or brake a hobby. If
the people act no better then CB Agitator, or a show of being better
then others, can drive people away.

Let's not forget, many local clubs and members try to drive
undesirables away. Who is an undesirable? Well, undesirable are people
who have already join the hobby for reason other then local Clubs and
their members reasons. It varies from area too area, but it's somewhat
the same.

1) If you join the hobby to take advantage of the 2 meter and 70cm
bands and don't upgrade to the HF bands. Because, you like to talk to
family and friends. You could careless about DXing, filling your walls
with QSL cards, and etc.

2) You don't use as many "Q" signals as possible. Yes, I know they
were invented solely for CW and are totally inappropriate for bands
above 6 meters FM, but they are fun and entertaining. "I'm going to
QSY to the phone." Can you really change frequencies to the phone? QSL
used to mean, "I am acknowledging receipt", but now it appears to
mean, "yes" or "OK". I guess I missed it when the ARRL changed the
meaning. It is also best to use "OK" and "QSL" together.

3) Not following local codes of conducts, or rules made up by the
local clubs and not the FCC. For example, always giving the calls of
yourself and everyone who is (or has been) in the group, whether they
are still there or not. While this has been unnecessary for years, it
is still a great memory test. You may also use "and the group" if you
are an "old timer" or just have a bad memory.

All the above can classify you as an undesirable, and get you a life
sentence of ridicule, rude comments intended to make fun of your lack
of desire to upgrade, or your unwillingness to follow the leader. For
example, say you don't wish to upgrade, then your marked as being to
lazy to take the code test, or unable due to a lack of IQ.

If this is their idea of encouragement, well it doesn't seem like it
to me, it's down right RUDE, and drives people away. Which is the
whole idea, but is that really such a good idea?

If we destroy our own, then how do we expect newcomers to view us? If
your trying to buildup a hobby, then you need to deal with diversity,
not destroy it. Being difference from what is normal or expected is a
good thing. It helps make life, or in the care of amateur radio, a
much more divers, interesting and fun filled hobby. It's not the same
old thing, different day.

This will help bring new blood to the hobby, thus bring fresh, and new
ideas with it.

http://www.ke4jcd.com


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 7/24/03

In article ,
(Robert Hartung) writes:


If we destroy our own, then how do we expect newcomers to view us? If
your trying to buildup a hobby, then you need to deal with diversity,
not destroy it. Being difference from what is normal or expected is a
good thing. It helps make life, or in the care of amateur radio, a
much more divers, interesting and fun filled hobby. It's not the same
old thing, different day.

This will help bring new blood to the hobby, thus bring fresh, and new
ideas with it.

Robert:

We eliminated code testing for the Technician-class license in 1991, in order
to bring "new blood" and "fresh new ideas" to the hobby. We completely
"restructured" the licensing system in 2000 for the same reason. After all
those changes, where are the "fresh new ideas?" What are we doing now
that is radically different from what we were doing 12 years ago, or 3 years
ago? Where is all the fantastic new high-speed digital communications
technology we were promised? About the only new modes to come into
widespread use since then is PSK-31, but that wasn't invented by U.S.
No-Code Technicians or 5-WPM General/Extras. Packet radio is pretty
much gone from the U.S. amateur radio landscape, and never even saw
widespread use at 9600-baud while it was still "popular." The Internet
has pretty much cancelled out every prospect of creating a high-speed
wireless infrastructure on amateur radio frequencies, save for a few
isolated enclaves with a high population of hams who work as
professionals in the communications technology field.

For the most part, the "newcomers" to ham radio are just doing what they
have always done -- yakking on the local repeaters, whining about the code,
and doing just about anything BUT educating themselves in high-tech
digital modes and experimenting with them. And they come pre-loaded
with all of the traditional excuses for serious involvement, such as no
time due to work and family commitments, no money, etc. etc. etc…
I think you need to face the plain truth -- ham radio is dying because
the same newcomers who are expected to save it are simply incapable of
doing so!

73 de Larry, K3LT

From: ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)

After all
those changes, where are the "fresh new ideas?" What are we doing now

Simple, the old-timers are not interested in new ideas. One example would be
holding on to Morse code and pressuring new Hams to learn Morse code and
excluding those that don't want to learn Morse code. Another example is most
old timers want to just make random contacts and are not interested in the
technical aspects of the hobby.

I have proposed new ideas, projects, etc. I didn't say I just want others to do
those projects for me. I would help with those projects - if there were
interest. I have asked to volunteer for those types of activities on several
occasions. The old-timers in the club are NOT interested in those types of
activities. However, they will put extra effort into teaching code classes to
get people to operate Morse code.

Don't blame the newcomers - its the old-timers that want to keep things as they
are.

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Robert Hartung) writes:

This will help bring new blood to the hobby, thus bring fresh, and new
ideas with it.

Robert, that's a fresher new look to the subject. I would agree with it.

Problem is, you will be villified in here, in this newsgroup by the
Kode Klutz Klan regulars. Their whole "amateur radio" experience
seems to be lurking and jumping all over any NCTA, throwing as
much garbage and filth as they can ON the person.

Actually, you are, once again, wrong.

While I disagree with some of his observations and comments, he
has very professionally and sincerely stated them.

You, on the otherhand, are the villifier. Of everything. Liars
must do that in order to defend themselves and their mistruths.

May the force be with you, and may the farce not stay your way.

The "farce" already tried, but I bet he can see his way through
you...Just like we did...

Steve, K4YZ

Vshah101 wrote:

From: ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)

After all
those changes, where are the "fresh new ideas?" What are we doing now

Simple, the old-timers are not interested in new ideas.

Your statement is not substantiated by fact.

One example would be holding on to Morse code and pressuring new Hams to learn Morse code and excluding those that don't want to learn Morse code.

The first part of your statement is not "an example" at all. Morse code
has demonstrated its usefulness and is still widely used in amateur
radio. Someone might "hold on" to morse code and be very active with
newer modes or might be involved in electronic circuit design.

The second part of your statement, the one about pressuring new Hams to
learn morse code is unsubstantiated by fact. Some new hams don't want
to learn morse code and don't. Some new hams find the world of HF radio
exciting and want to participate. They learn morse code. Some new hams
find HF interesting and have decided to "wait it out" in hopes that
there'll be no morse testing in the future.

The third part of your statement, dealing with the exclusion of those
who don't want to learn morse code, is unsubstantiated by fact. What
evidence can you present to support your claim? From what would these
folks be excluded? You've participated in meetings. You've been part
of operating events. How have you been excluded?

Another example is most
old timers want to just make random contacts and are not interested in the technical aspects of the hobby.

How do you know what "most old timers" do and what they are not
interested in? I know old timers who are very technically inclined and
I know others who participate in nets and who keep weekly or daily
skeds. Those are not "random contacts".

I have proposed new ideas, projects, etc. I didn't say I just want others to do those projects for me. I would help with those projects - if there were interest. I have asked to volunteer for those types of activities on several occasions. The old-timers in the club are NOT interested in those types of activities.

Nothing precludes you from tackling projects which interest you. "Old
timers" might not be interested in the particular projects you've
proposed. They might not be interested in such as group activities.
A third alternative is that your personality grates on them.

However, they will put extra effort into teaching code classes to
get people to operate Morse code.

Operate or learn? All of them, en masse put in extra effort or just
some of them put in extra effort? Why do you object if someone desires
to do something which is different than what you desire?

Don't blame the newcomers - its the old-timers that want to keep
things as they are.

First you'll have to come to an understanding of what it is which "old
timers" want before you begin to lecture us or them from your rather
shallow pool of knowledge on the subject.

Dave K8MN

From: Dave Heil k8mn

Simple, the old-timers are not interested in new ideas.

Your statement is not substantiated by fact.

It is a broad generalization, which, unless there is a logical influence,
cannot support itself. However, I did not say 100% old-timer are not interested
in new ideas, just that there is a tendency for that in Ham radio. Thats my,
and other's, experience, so is not substantiated by fact.

The first part of your statement is not "an example" at all. Morse code
has demonstrated its usefulness and is still widely used in amateur
radio. Someone might "hold on" to morse code and be very active with
newer modes or might be involved in electronic circuit design.

In my local club newsletter. The club states that a new HF setup is keeping
with the goal of advancement of the radio art. However, the do little else
towards that effect, despite having alot of resourses which can be utilized for
technical activities. Also, few club members are interested in homebrewing,
despite claiming interest by posing for a photograph showing club members doing
a group project. So, the "advancement of the radio art" is just a justification
for more HF/CW activities.

The second part of your statement, the one about pressuring new Hams to
learn morse code is unsubstantiated by fact.

At various antenna setups, the other Hams try to persuade me to learn Morse
code. This has happened several times.

Some new hams don't want
to learn morse code and don't.

The third part of your statement, dealing with the exclusion of those
who don't want to learn morse code, is unsubstantiated by fact.

The ones that do become popular with the other club members. The ones that
don't want to learn Morse code become excluded.

How do you know what "most old timers" do and what they are not
interested in? I know old timers who are very technically inclined

All I can say is what I have found in my area and in several other states.
There have been exceptions of course, but it is too rare to be worth the
effort. I cannot search out the contradiction.

From (Larry Roll K3LT):

If that is the case in your club, then simply work around the old timers
that you find so offensive, and get your fellow newcomers involved in your
projects. What is so difficult about that?

The newcomers seem to be of the same mode also. The ones that are interested in
the technical stuff probably would have left within one or two meetings.
Probably same would be true about the social aspect of newcomers. Thats why the
demographics seem to stay as they are when new people join.

The other alternative is to start my own club. I tried it, but that was not too
successful.

There are technical CLUBS, general CLUBS, DX CLUBS, contest CLUBS, repeater
(users) CLUBS, microwave CLUBS, et al

Do we have to CLUB you over the head to get you to go to the right one ???

The other alternative is to start my own club. I tried it, but that was
not too
successful.

Wonder Why ????



"Vshah101" wrote in message
...
From (Larry Roll K3LT):

If that is the case in your club, then simply work around the old timers
that you find so offensive, and get your fellow newcomers involved in
your
projects. What is so difficult about that?

The newcomers seem to be of the same mode also. The ones that are
interested in
the technical stuff probably would have left within one or two meetings.
Probably same would be true about the social aspect of newcomers. Thats
why the
demographics seem to stay as they are when new people join.

Vshah101 wrote:

From: Dave Heil k8mn

Simple, the old-timers are not interested in new ideas.

Your statement is not substantiated by fact.

It is a broad generalization, which, unless there is a logical influence, cannot support itself.

It certainly is broad and it certainly doesn't support itself.

However, I did not say 100% old-timer are not interested
in new ideas, just that there is a tendency for that in Ham radio.

Actually, that is not what you said at all. What you said is:
"Simple, the old-timers are not interested in new ideas."

Thats my,
and other's, experience, so is not substantiated by fact.

No "other's" have confirmed your claim.

The first part of your statement is not "an example" at all. Morse code
has demonstrated its usefulness and is still widely used in amateur
radio. Someone might "hold on" to morse code and be very active with
newer modes or might be involved in electronic circuit design.

In my local club newsletter. The club states that a new HF setup is keeping
with the goal of advancement of the radio art. However, the do little else
towards that effect, despite having alot of resourses which can be utilized for
technical activities.

They're probably doing all that when you aren't around.

Also, few club members are interested in homebrewing,
despite claiming interest by posing for a photograph showing club members doing a group project.

Well, they do have photographic proof. We're stuck with just your
claim.

So, the "advancement of the radio art" is just a justification
for more HF/CW activities.

So you're back to telling them where their interests should lie.

The second part of your statement, the one about pressuring new Hams to
learn morse code is unsubstantiated by fact.

At various antenna setups, the other Hams try to persuade me to learn Morse code. This has happened several times.

And it was "pressure", not "encouragement"? Did it dawn on you that
they might be going easier on others and that they save the high
pressure tactics for you?

Some new hams don't want
to learn morse code and don't.

The third part of your statement, dealing with the exclusion of those
who don't want to learn morse code, is unsubstantiated by fact.

The ones that do become popular with the other club members. The ones that
don't want to learn Morse code become excluded.

Ahhh! So it is just you and it is now about popularity.

How do you know what "most old timers" do and what they are not
interested in? I know old timers who are very technically inclined

All I can say is what I have found in my area and in several other states.

I'll wager that most "old timers" aren't even involved with a radio
club. You'll have to use the callsign database and begin making phone
calls or knocking on doors to come up with a scientific sampling, Vipul.
I'd like to be able to feel sorry for you but my experience tells me
that you don't really have a handle on reality.


There have been exceptions of course, but it is too rare to be worth the effort. I cannot search out the contradiction.

That's right. You've begun with an outcome and you're trying to make
the statistics fit that outcome. Good luck.

Dave K8MN