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  #11   Report Post  
Old August 3rd 03, 06:01 AM
Dave Heil
 
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Vshah101 wrote:

From (Larry Roll K3LT):

If that is the case in your club, then simply work around the old timers
that you find so offensive, and get your fellow newcomers involved in your
projects. What is so difficult about that?


The newcomers seem to be of the same mode also.


Your tales always end with you being the odd man out.

The ones that are interested in
the technical stuff probably would have left within one or two meetings.


Your job is to seek them out and meld a new club based around your
unique definition of what an amateur radio club should be.

Probably same would be true about the social aspect of newcomers. Thats why the
demographics seem to stay as they are when new people join.


So the club stays full of those who are interested in talking about
amateur radio and who set up operating events and then waste that time
by actually operating rather than touring the beach, eating salads and
chatting up the "preety fems".

I'm involved in a county group which is part of ARES. Most of the hams
involved are not interested in contesting or DXing. Many operate VHF FM
only. I don't know any who've designed and built a linear amplifier.
Only one other is interested in collecting and restoring vintage gear.
I continue to attend. We interact based on our common interests rather
than the things which divide us.

Dave K8MN

The other alternative is to start my own club. I tried it, but that was not too
successful.

  #12   Report Post  
Old August 3rd 03, 06:26 PM
Vshah101
 
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From: ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)

The newcomers seem to be of the same mode also. The ones that are interested
in
the technical stuff probably would have left within one or two meetings.


Vipul:

"Would have?" Did they or didn't they? It's gotta be one or the other!


I am not a demographer. I don't track newcomers like that. On that statement,
I'm just theorizing. That's why I used the word "probably".

Probably same would be true about the social aspect of newcomers. Thats why
the demographics seem to stay as they are when new people join.


I am not a demographer. I don't track newcomers like that. On that statement,
I'm just theorizing. That's why I used the word "probably".

Its 95%+ males, mostly older males. The idea of putting up antennas and
contesting for hours is boring. Not surprisingly, there are few females in the
hobby.

Most of the young people are of the anti-social nerdy type that others would
not like to be with. Therefore, other young people don't join.

The other alternative is to start my own club. I tried it, but that was not
too successful.


Not "too" successful?


Two other people showed up. One person was a typical Ham type and believed that
I could get more members by appealing to current Hams. If I could find current
Hams with those interests, I would not have to start this type of club.

The other person, although not an EE, was sincerely interested in technical
projects.

Due to certain factors such as the lack of a meeting place, getting enough
members, and lack of funds, and other factors, the club could not get started.


  #13   Report Post  
Old August 3rd 03, 06:46 PM
Vshah101
 
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From: Dave Heil k8mn

Also, few club members are interested in homebrewing,
despite claiming interest by posing for a photograph showing club members

doing a group project.

Well, they do have photographic proof. We're stuck with just your
claim.


No, they only posed for the photograph. It does not mean that they actually did
that activity. I can ask people in that photograph if they are interested in
homebrewing and that person will say he is not interested in homebrewing.

Therefore, the photograph is just hype and does not represent what the club is
really interested in.

So, the "advancement of the radio art" is just a justification
for more HF/CW activities.


So you're back to telling them where their interests should lie.


I didn't say they were interested in homebrewing - the photograph did. It takes
a prominant place in the club publicity. Except, the photograph is a
mis-representation of what the club members are truly interested in.

I'll wager that most "old timers" aren't even involved with a radio
club.


They don't go to club meetings. And they don't go to Hamfests. Nor are they on
2m. I get it - they don't exist.

You'll have to use the callsign database and begin making phone
calls or knocking on doors to come up with a scientific sampling


A scientific sampling is not needed by me, nor any potential new recruit to Ham
radio. If that person's experiences are of anti-social, mostly male, mostly
older, non-technical (if they are interested in that), Hams, then thats all
they need to know. It won't do much good to show them the other aspect that
"could" exist, but does not exist for them.

There have been exceptions of course, but it is too rare to be worth the

effort. I cannot search out the contradiction.

That's right. You've begun with an outcome and you're trying to make
the statistics fit that outcome.


I'm not making any statistics fit. I'm saying that if something is 95%* and it
takes you a certain amount of time to come across the other 5%, then its not
worth the effort.

----------------------------------------------------------------
*The 95% number is given for example purposes only. It is not meant to
represent a specific percentage.

  #15   Report Post  
Old August 4th 03, 02:41 AM
Steve Robeson, K4CAP
 
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(Vshah101) wrote in message ...
From: Dave Heil k8mn

Also, few club members are interested in homebrewing,
despite claiming interest by posing for a photograph showing club members

doing a group project.

Well, they do have photographic proof. We're stuck with just your
claim.


No, they only posed for the photograph. It does not mean that they actually did
that activity. I can ask people in that photograph if they are interested in
homebrewing and that person will say he is not interested in homebrewing.

Therefore, the photograph is just hype and does not represent what the club is
really interested in.


So far all we "have" is your word, which is, at best, dubious,
that this really occured. You won't ID the club, any of the members,
a web page with the news letter on it, etc etc etc.

So, the "advancement of the radio art" is just a justification
for more HF/CW activities.


So you're back to telling them where their interests should lie.


I didn't say they were interested in homebrewing - the photograph did. It takes
a prominant place in the club publicity. Except, the photograph is a
mis-representation of what the club members are truly interested in.


PAY ATTENTION WO WHAT WAS SAID, VIPUL!

(What's with all the allegedly college educated "engineer types".

What was said was YOU are back to telling "them" where thier
interests should lay. And you do. You constantly barrage this NG
with YOUR interpretation of what Amatuer Radio should be and how
"wrong" other Amateurs are for not following THAT doctrine.

I'll wager that most "old timers" aren't even involved with a radio
club.


They don't go to club meetings. And they don't go to Hamfests. Nor are they on
2m. I get it - they don't exist.

You'll have to use the callsign database and begin making phone
calls or knocking on doors to come up with a scientific sampling


A scientific sampling is not needed by me, nor any potential new recruit to Ham
radio. If that person's experiences are of anti-social, mostly male, mostly
older, non-technical (if they are interested in that), Hams, then thats all
they need to know. It won't do much good to show them the other aspect that
"could" exist, but does not exist for them.


Your creepiness is getting worse.

There have been exceptions of course, but it is too rare to be worth the

effort. I cannot search out the contradiction.

That's right. You've begun with an outcome and you're trying to make
the statistics fit that outcome.


I'm not making any statistics fit. I'm saying that if something is 95%* and it
takes you a certain amount of time to come across the other 5%, then its not
worth the effort.


Depends on what the "5%" is, Vippy, and whether or not you've got
the perseverence to find it or not. If the "95%" is clay, and the
"5%" is gold, then isn't it worth it to you to get your blue jeans a
bit dirty...???

----------------------------------------------------------------
*The 95% number is given for example purposes only. It is not meant to
represent a specific percentage.


"95%" IS a specific percentage. YOU quantified it, Vipster.

Steve, K4YZ


  #16   Report Post  
Old August 4th 03, 08:20 AM
Steve Robeson, K4CAP
 
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(Vshah101) wrote in message ...
From:
ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)

The newcomers seem to be of the same mode also. The ones that are interested
in
the technical stuff probably would have left within one or two meetings.


Vipul:

"Would have?" Did they or didn't they? It's gotta be one or the other!


I am not a demographer. I don't track newcomers like that. On that statement,
I'm just theorizing. That's why I used the word "probably".


I love how you give us "numbers" about how "unbalanced" you find
Amatuer Radio, then when called on your numbers you throw some excues
out about how you're NOT qualified in the first plce to MAKE that
assertion.

Probably same would be true about the social aspect of newcomers. Thats why
the demographics seem to stay as they are when new people join.


I am not a demographer. I don't track newcomers like that. On that statement,
I'm just theorizing. That's why I used the word "probably".

Its 95%+ males, mostly older males. The idea of putting up antennas and
contesting for hours is boring. Not surprisingly, there are few females in the
hobby.


You have been offered countless exmaples of OTHER things you can
do in Amateur radio, but you keep harping back to two or three things
you DON'T like and presenting them as the "only" thing there are to
do.

What an idiot, Vipul.

Most of the young people are of the anti-social nerdy type that others would
not like to be with. Therefore, other young people don't join.


Double idiot.

The other alternative is to start my own club. I tried it, but that was not
too successful.


Not "too" successful?


Two other people showed up. One person was a typical Ham type and believed that
I could get more members by appealing to current Hams. If I could find current
Hams with those interests, I would not have to start this type of club.


Sure you would. Almost every "specialty" club (DXing, contesting,
ARES, etc) starts as a sub-group of some other organization.

The other person, although not an EE, was sincerely interested in technical
projects.

Due to certain factors such as the lack of a meeting place, getting enough
members, and lack of funds, and other factors, the club could not get started.


The club could not get started because YOU did not possess the
organizational skills to make it happen. You only had 2 or three
people interested? Then meet in your living room for now! Have your
"meeting" over coffee or drinks at a night club.

People usually do NOT like joinging something that doesn't have
form and function, so it takes a few like minded individuals to get
the program rolling.

Unless you are going to try and "out-do" the ARRL on day one, it
does NOT take a lot of money to get a new club started.

So far, the only reason for NOT getting your club started is
wimpy excuses and a lack of determination on YOUR part.

Period.

Steve, K4YZ
  #19   Report Post  
Old August 5th 03, 11:26 PM
Dee D. Flint
 
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"Vshah101" wrote in message
...
From: (Steve Robeson, K4CAP)

You won't ID the club, any of the members,

I have more respect than that.


What was said was YOU are back to telling "them" where thier
interests should lay.


And neither should they tell me what my interests should be. Like, telling
people at club meetings that they should learn Morse code. Or, suggesting

I
should learn Morse code when I participate in antenna setups or at Ham
gatherings.


You are almost certainly misinterpreting their motives. They want to see
people improve, upgrade, and otherwise develop their amateur radio skills
and knowledge. It is in a benevolent spirit that they make these
suggestions. For example, I have been through setting up digital modes on
my system even though I don't care to use them. I've set them up and
checked them out for the sole purpose of expanding my personal hands on
knowledge. Once I had them working right, I was done using those modes.

You constantly barrage this NG
with YOUR interpretation of what Amatuer Radio should be and how
"wrong" other Amateurs are for not following THAT doctrine.


Like the current group of Hams do in their groups?

If the "95%" is clay,

Okay, makes sense.

and the
"5%" is gold, then isn't it worth it to you to get your blue jeans a
bit dirty...???


That 5% is gold at the end of a rainbow (it doesn't exist).


Your personal expections of ham radio are simply unrealistic. Thus you will
always be disappointed.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

  #20   Report Post  
Old August 6th 03, 02:19 PM
Steve Robeson, K4CAP
 
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"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message gy.com...

Well got news for you. It's the anti-social nerdy types in our society that
make the majority of technical and business advances. They are focused on
their goals rather than looking for social clubs. All of our computer
technology has come from the "geeks" and some of those boys have gotten
wealty (Bill Gates comes to mind here).


Dee...I can't help but imagine that there's some overweight
ex-prom queeen who's day revolves around 6 kids, a beer-bellied
ex-jock old man who won't get out of bed or stay sober,living in a
mobile home that's about to fall off the axles, all-the-while beating
herself up for having made fun of Mr. Gates for "daring" to ask her
out once ! ! !

=)

Steve, K4YZ
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