(AveryFine) wrote in message ...
(Len Over 21)

Were you ever in a country
where a war was going on?

Naaaah...He was CLOSE to one once, and since a bunch of guys he
didn't know got killed in it, he just used THIER share of war stories
to make up the difference.

Stuff it, Colonel Klunk.

"YOU have NO authority to call anyone anything, demean them,
make fun of them, or anything else...yet YOU continue to do so.
That indicates the perversity of your control-freak psychosis."

Guess who said that?

Perhaps you should
take your own advice, Len.

Never thought I'd be agreeing with a post from "Avery Fine"... !
! !

Actually, I am beginning to think this is just Lennie arguing
with his darker alter ego in a public forum!

73

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP)

writes:

(AveryFine) wrote in message
...
(Len Over 21)

Were you ever in a country
where a war was going on?

Naaaah...He was CLOSE to one once, and since a bunch of guys he
didn't know got killed in it, he just used THIER share of war stories
to make up the difference.

Well, there you have it.

Why do you let Len Anderson's postings here bother you, Steve Robeson? Have you
not noticed that his pattern of behavior is designed to elicit angry responses
from you?

Stuff it, Colonel Klunk.

"YOU have NO authority to call anyone anything, demean them,
make fun of them, or anything else...yet YOU continue to do so.
That indicates the perversity of your control-freak psychosis."

Guess who said that?

Perhaps you should
take your own advice, Len.

Never thought I'd be agreeing with a post from "Avery Fine"... !
! !

Why not?

Actually, I am beginning to think this is just Lennie arguing
with his darker alter ego in a public forum!

I am not "Lennie". Nor am I Len Anderson. I am just someone
who writes here when the mood strikes me.

Is that wrong?

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:



What WILL be the end of ham radio is a lack of significant
growth ...



Let's get it straight - is dropping Element 1 going to give us lots more
growth or not?

I don't understand a few of the things Carl says here. That we will
dissapear unless we get "significant growth".


There are more US hams today than at any time in the past.

What exactly is that? a 100 percent increase in a day? increase at 1
percent over population increase?


That's what I've been asking.

I'd like to know the advances they will bring.


Similar to what newcomers have always brought.

I want to hear how those who oppose the ending of the Morse code
requirement are keeping ham radio from marching forward.

Time for the roadmap to the future to be laid out.


Don't hold yer breath waiting;-)

Or is this like the last scene in "The Candidate"?

Refresh my memory on that one, Mike.

The Candidate is a pretty good film about an idealistic fellow, (Robert
Redford) the son of a former Governor, who gets caught up in running for
office after being prodded by the local political machinery. Along the
way, he compromises most all of his values (all that is not relevant to
the case at hand. But in the end, after being elected to office, amongst
the victory celebration, he looks to his campaign manager (Peter Boyle -
Haw) completely confused, and asks "What do we do now?" He was
completely lost and didn't know what to do.

My point is that I see a close relationship between that ending and the
situation we have here. No real thought has been given to the aftermath
of the ending of the Morse code test.

Back to now...


After such a change, lots of different ideas come out of the woodwork
to replace the vacuum left by the probable disappearance of the Morse
code test. Some ideas are good, some make me shudder.


But the fact is that since if the test disappears and nothing else
happens, it very well does mean that it is a reduction in knowledge
required to get a ticket. All arguments on what constitutes "knowledge"
in these regards is kind of like defining "is". You have to learn less,
no possible dispute without looking pretty silly.

All this means that those who believe that requirements for a ticket
should be lowered have the upper hand.

Those who do not believe that, that is to say that a Morse code test is
a desirable thing, or those who want the writtens to be reflective of a
fair degree of competence, have an uphill battle, and at the moment are
regarded as the losers.

I am very disappointed that the winners in this one do not seem to have
any plan at all. All we hear are their personal thought on how *they*
don't support some of what is being proposed. That's nice, but Doggonit,
That doesn't cut it! They have to be darn active in seeing that things
don't fall apart around us. The ball is in their court now, and it seems
they don't know what to do with it. I don't really care what they
personally think, I want to see what they are going to do. And so far.......


Gloat time is over. Your time has come. You now have the chance to
prove that you were right. And browbeating the losers isn't a very good
start.


Maybe we'll see a lot of newcomers and technoadvances after the code test goes.
And maybe we won't. Personally, I don't think we'll see either.

Probably not. Those who do advance the art are a small core of
technical adroit's, who come up with techniques that must not only
advance the art, but must be adapted by enough people to make them
viable. After all, it isn't much fun to have the newest cool method of
communication if there is only a couple people to communicate with.


If that happens, what will be blamed for the ARS' perceived problems??


The PCTA's, because of their being so negative, and scaring the new
people away? I'd bet a cup of coffee on that one. It is a pity when you
lose someone to blame, eh?

- Mike KB3EIA -

(AveryFine) wrote in message ...
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP)

Why do you let Len Anderson's postings here bother you, Steve Robeson? Have you
not noticed that his pattern of behavior is designed to elicit angry responses
from you?

Because I do not well tolerate pathological liars. Lennie is a
pathological liar. He also grossly misrepresents Amateur Radio in
such a way as to bring discredit upon it. Poking the obvious holes in
his rants is sport.

Never thought I'd be agreeing with a post from "Avery Fine"... !
! !

Why not?

Why?

Actually, I am beginning to think this is just Lennie arguing
with his darker alter ego in a public forum!

I am not "Lennie". Nor am I Len Anderson. I am just someone
who writes here when the mood strikes me.

Is that wrong?

Nope. Did I say it was...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
. com...
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...

What I wrote was precisely relevant.

Radio gods have the irritating habit of stating that only THEIR
viewpoints are "relevant." :-)


You wrote of someone's having not
been alive when something took place. I pointed out that you weren't
alive during some of the things which you've pontificated on in this
venue.

Now, now, Kolonel...you're busy trying to divert attention to someone
else by saying you are "relevant" and anyone disbelieving such a
godlike statement is "irrelevant."

You are worse than the other whiny PCTAs who want to "win" old
arguments that they LOST in here.

Try reading a BOOK on the REST of the world of radio instead of what
if spoon-fed you by the little publisher in Newington.

"YOU have NO authority to call anyone anything, demean them,
make fun of them, or anything else...yet YOU continue to do so.
That indicates the perversity of your control-freak psychosis."

--Leonard H. Anderson

...and you still don't have any of that authority, divine radio god.


What the hell are you prattling about?

...about a whiny radio god (yourself) getting all hot and bothered
by negative criticsm and not being able to argue any subject without
attempting misdirection into personalities.


Did you have a point?

Yes. But, like Reverend Jim, you can't accept it even though everyone
else (except fellow PCTAs) can see it for what it is. :-)


You certainly wrote a large number of diversionary words to cover your
gaffe. There was no boom of Japanese ham gear in the 1960's. Is it
clear now?

Again, you refuse to accept what was happening in the markets for
amateur radio equipment.

The Japanese companies were already IN the ham radio marketplace
in the USA then and they've occupied the prime position ever since.


Why no, Len, not as a school boy. I certainly have more governmental
communications experience during the cold war.

Any more tales of wondrous radio pioneering from the International
Cashew Nut exporting capital of the world? :-)

No doubt you were awarded an Intelligence Star for your James Bomb
duties getting the goods on nearby commies in other countries. :-)


It doesn't take a regulator to truthfully state that you weren't
involved and are not involved in amateur radio.

You mean NOT LICENSED. That's ALL you can claim. :-)

Keep up with that "charge," big radio god. It seems about the only
valid statement you can make.


Don't tell me what I am to amateur radio.

No problem. You do that constantly about yourself. :-)


I'm a licensed ham and have been for decades.

Which only proves that you've been able to renew that license
periodically and within the legal time. :-)

You should also describe the stamping on your hide from the FDA.

You, quite truthfully are not involved at all in amateur radio.

Well then, HAM RADIO magazine made some dreadful errors in
personnel, did it? :-)

You ought to bring up outright charges of fraud and misrepresentation.
Psycho pSteve does that periodically. Of course, he can't understand
any of the article's technical things so he just says they are "forgeries."

You aren't a judge of what hams do or have done.

Real hams sometimes contain unsafe amounts of Escherichia coli
O157:H7. Be careful of infecting others when spouting off in here.

You are not a regulator.

Neither are YOU, big radio god.



Now tell us, great big four-decade experienced AMATEUR radio god,
what have YOU ever done to "advance amateur radio?!?"

No, I don't believe I will, Len.

I don't believe you CAN. :-)


Show us your patents, your marvelous discoveries, all your
important technical contributions.

Still have your patent fetish?

Never had any "fetish." But, I DO have a patent in radio.


You've had FORTY YEARS of amateurism
and all you can come up with is trying to put down folks in an amateur
newsgroup?!?

Folks? Well, there's you.

You don't hesitate one bit to put down ANYONE who doesn't worship
your statements or ideals. That's clearly evident in this newsgroup
and available on Google.

Then again, you aren't a ham. You're just a groupie.

"Ham is the butchered meat of swine."

I'm just advocating the elimination of the morse code test for ANY
US radio license examination.


You've got it wrong, Len. I have a license and have had it for decades.

You get a nice gold star for renewing your license periodically.

Other than that, what can you claim?

I make contacts via amateur radio daily.

I make contacts with switches and relays. Break those contacts, too.

Daily. :-)


I'm a participant in amateur radio.

Well, that proves the radio god's "validity." One can't get IN amateur
radio without ALREADY being IN amateur radio. Know the morse code.
Worship morse code. It is the key to GREATNESS!


I don't issue catcalls from the sidelines.

You have a "license" to catcall from inside the lines?

Of course you do. "Authority" from the US government!

Your license grant "authorizes" you to be a horse's ass to anyone not
in league with your godlike opinions, statements, and general personal
insults.

No problem. Everyone sees that.



Get a better life.

I'm quite happy with this one, Len. Yours seems to be a little lacking
in light of your ham radio envy.

What "envy?"

I'm just advocating the elimination of the morse code test for radio
license examinations.

You seem to think that anyone doing that is committing some kind of
heresy or blasphemy.

You seem to think that ALL in this newsgroup MUST have a valid
amateur radio license to participate. You don't have any validity in
that demand so all you do is attempt individual personal insults.

You are still under the misconception that a valid amateur radio license
is required to participate in here.

This newsgroup isn't "ham radio." It is supposed to be about talking
policy matters for that. In the United States all us citizens have the
absolute RIGHT to free speech under our Constitution. You won't
accept that, thus you are acting unconstitutionally.

Radio gods are like that. Mere earthly laws don't apply to them.

LHA

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
. com...
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...

What I wrote was precisely relevant.

Radio gods have the irritating habit of stating that only THEIR
viewpoints are "relevant." :-)

Why, you've habitually dismissed the viewpoints of others with a brusque
"irrelevant" and have stubbornly clung to your own views. Does that
mean that you're a radio god? :-)

You wrote of someone's having not
been alive when something took place. I pointed out that you weren't
alive during some of the things which you've pontificated on in this
venue.

Now, now, Kolonel...you're busy trying to divert attention to someone
else by saying you are "relevant" and anyone disbelieving such a
godlike statement is "irrelevant."

Not at all, Mr. Bluster. I wrote nothing about MY being relevant. You
chastised another for making a statement about something which took
place in the distant past. You make similar statements quite
frequently.

You are worse than the other whiny PCTAs who want to "win" old
arguments that they LOST in here.

Which old arguments were lost? Why are you attempting diversion just
after trying to paint another's comments as a diversion. Do you ever
practice what you preach? :-) :-)

Try reading a BOOK on the REST of the world of radio instead of what
if spoon-fed you by the little publisher in Newington.

"YOU have NO authority to call anyone anything, demean them,
make fun of them, or anything else...yet YOU continue to do so.
That indicates the perversity of your control-freak psychosis."

--Leonard H. Anderson

...and you still don't have any of that authority, divine radio god.

But somehow--maybe you view it as manifest destiny--you have such
authority. You're pathetic.

What the hell are you prattling about?

...about a whiny radio god (yourself) getting all hot and bothered
by negative criticsm and not being able to argue any subject without
attempting misdirection into personalities.

You're all about misdirection and personalties, Len. Your bluster isn't
going to accomplish much.

Did you have a point?

Yes. But, like Reverend Jim, you can't accept it even though everyone
else (except fellow PCTAs) can see it for what it is. :-)

Everyone else? We haven't heard from everyone else. Are you claiming
*chortle* prescience?

You certainly wrote a large number of diversionary words to cover your
gaffe. There was no boom of Japanese ham gear in the 1960's. Is it
clear now?

Again, you refuse to accept what was happening in the markets for
amateur radio equipment.

I refuse to accept your claim because it is incorrect. You don't know
what you're talking about.

The Japanese companies were already IN the ham radio marketplace
in the USA then and they've occupied the prime position ever since.

There were a very few Japanese transmitters and receivers in the very
late 1960s. There was no boom of Japanese equipment in the 1960's. The
Japanese weren't even in the "prime position" in the mid-1970's.

Why no, Len, not as a school boy. I certainly have more governmental
communications experience during the cold war.

Any more tales of wondrous radio pioneering from the International
Cashew Nut exporting capital of the world? :-)

Why? Are you folks in the International Nut capital of the world in the
market for more? :-) :-)

No doubt you were awarded an Intelligence Star for your James Bomb
duties getting the goods on nearby commies in other countries. :-)

Then again, you wouldn't be in a position to know anything about it. :-)

It doesn't take a regulator to truthfully state that you weren't
involved and are not involved in amateur radio.

You mean NOT LICENSED. That's ALL you can claim. :-)

I mean "not involved". You have nothing to do with amateur radio.

Keep up with that "charge," big radio god. It seems about the only
valid statement you can make.

Don't tell me what I am to amateur radio.

No problem. You do that constantly about yourself. :-)

Actually I haven't done much of that here but I'd be entitled to do so.
I am, after all, a licensed radio amateur. I'm a part of amateur radio.
You, on the other hand... :-)

I'm a licensed ham and have been for decades.

Which only proves that you've been able to renew that license
periodically and within the legal time. :-)

I've passed four different written exams and morse exams at three
speeds. I took and passed all the exams they had, Len. You've not even
attempted the most basic, despite your "decades-long interest".

You should also describe the stamping on your hide from the FDA.

You write some pretty peculiar things.

You, quite truthfully are not involved at all in amateur radio.

Well then, HAM RADIO magazine made some dreadful errors in
personnel, did it? :-)

How long has it been since there was such a magazine? Yes, I agree that
HAM RADIO magazine made at least one dreadful error in personnel.

You ought to bring up outright charges of fraud and misrepresentation.
Psycho pSteve does that periodically. Of course, he can't understand
any of the article's technical things so he just says they are "forgeries."

I don't know about fraud but you've certainly been guilty of
misrepresentation here on a number of occasions.

You aren't a judge of what hams do or have done.

Real hams sometimes contain unsafe amounts of Escherichia coli
O157:H7. Be careful of infecting others when spouting off in here.

Nice dodge.

You are not a regulator.

Neither are YOU, big radio god.

I have no need to be. I'm quite happy to be active as a licensed radio
amateur. I'm one-for-two. You're oh-for-two.

Now tell us, great big four-decade experienced AMATEUR radio god,
what have YOU ever done to "advance amateur radio?!?"

No, I don't believe I will, Len.

I don't believe you CAN. :-)

I'm sure it'd be something like your line about Steve: You wouldn't be
capable of understanding. :-)

Show us your patents, your marvelous discoveries, all your
important technical contributions.

Still have your patent fetish?

Never had any "fetish." But, I DO have a patent in radio.

It sure seems like a fetish. I can Google up a number of occasions
where you bring up the existence of your patent while asking others, "Do
YOU have a patent"?

You've had FORTY YEARS of amateurism
and all you can come up with is trying to put down folks in an amateur
newsgroup?!?

Folks? Well, there's you.

You don't hesitate one bit to put down ANYONE who doesn't worship
your statements or ideals. That's clearly evident in this newsgroup
and available on Google.

I don't require worship, nor do my ideals. That's another
misrepresentation on your part. That is clearly evident without a trip
to Google.

Then again, you aren't a ham. You're just a groupie.

"Ham is the butchered meat of swine."

Then you're in the wrong newsgroup.

I'm just advocating the elimination of the morse code test for ANY
US radio license examination.

You've never "just" advocated. You've always done the things of which
you frequently accuse others. You want a minimum age requirement for
entry into amateur radio. When others have argued that no age limit is
needed, you've come close to apoplexy and the capital letters fly as
you've typed "CHILDREN" As to the elimination of morse testing: What's
it to you?

You've got it wrong, Len. I have a license and have had it for decades.

You get a nice gold star for renewing your license periodically.

Other than that, what can you claim?

I can and do claim that 1) you don't hold such a license 2) you aren't a
part of amateur radio 3) that your credibility here on the code test
issue is almost non-existent.

I make contacts via amateur radio daily.

I make contacts with switches and relays. Break those contacts, too.

I'll bet you could break anything.

Daily. :-)

I'm a participant in amateur radio.

Well, that proves the radio god's "validity." One can't get IN amateur
radio without ALREADY being IN amateur radio. Know the morse code.
Worship morse code. It is the key to GREATNESS!

One can get in quite easily. You haven't taken the first step toward
obtaining an amateur radio license of any class. You can't blame others
for your own inertia.

I don't issue catcalls from the sidelines.

You have a "license" to catcall from inside the lines?

I'm in the game, not on the sidelines. I'll be happy to dish out all
the catcalls you can handle.

Of course you do. "Authority" from the US government!

Not from the sidelines. If you'd develop a more positive outlook, you
could be one of our cheerleaders.

Your license grant "authorizes" you to be a horse's ass to anyone not
in league with your godlike opinions, statements, and general personal
insults.

Which simply makes you an unlicensed horse's ass.

No problem. Everyone sees that.

Everyone? You have an ARRL study guide in your pocket?

Get a better life.

I'm quite happy with this one, Len. Yours seems to be a little lacking
in light of your ham radio envy.

What "envy?"

You know. Your envy.

I'm just advocating the elimination of the morse code test for radio
license examinations.

Naw. You know in your heart of hearts that it just isn't so.

You seem to think that anyone doing that is committing some kind of
heresy or blasphemy.

Not at all. I don't think you know the first thing about it.

You seem to think that ALL in this newsgroup MUST have a valid
amateur radio license to participate. You don't have any validity in
that demand so all you do is attempt individual personal insults.

I don't think that at all. You've commented here for years. You've
dropped road apples of insults on numerous individuals who don't happen
to agree with you. Then you get sore when the insults come your way.
You tell others about how tough newsgroups can be but you, the little
old pirhana, can't take it.

You are still under the misconception that a valid amateur radio license
is required to participate in here.

You are still under the misconception about what I believe.

This newsgroup isn't "ham radio." It is supposed to be about talking
policy matters for that. In the United States all us citizens have the
absolute RIGHT to free speech under our Constitution. You won't
accept that, thus you are acting unconstitutionally.

More road apples. I'd give you some oats but you're the wrong end.
The constitution does not require my silence or force any deference
toward your views. It does not prohibit my laughing at you or my
sarcasm directed toward you. You may unwrap the flag and stand down
from your soapbox.

Radio gods are like that. Mere earthly laws don't apply to them.

You can't even make up your mind if I'm a god or not.

Dave K8MN

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

What WILL be the end of ham radio is a lack of significant
growth ...

Let's get it straight - is dropping Element 1 going to give us lots more
growth or not?

I don't understand a few of the things Carl says here. That we will
dissapear unless we get "significant growth".

There are more US hams today than at any time in the past.

What exactly is that? a 100 percent increase in a day? increase at 1
percent over population increase?

That's what I've been asking.

I'd like to know the advances they will bring.

Similar to what newcomers have always brought.

I want to hear how those who oppose the ending of the Morse code
requirement are keeping ham radio from marching forward.

Time for the roadmap to the future to be laid out.

Don't hold yer breath waiting;-)

Or is this like the last scene in "The Candidate"?

Refresh my memory on that one, Mike.

The Candidate is a pretty good film about an idealistic fellow, (Robert
Redford) the son of a former Governor, who gets caught up in running for
office after being prodded by the local political machinery. Along the
way, he compromises most all of his values (all that is not relevant to
the case at hand. But in the end, after being elected to office, amongst
the victory celebration, he looks to his campaign manager (Peter Boyle -
Haw) completely confused, and asks "What do we do now?" He was
completely lost and didn't know what to do.

Sounds pretty familiar.....

My point is that I see a close relationship between that ending and the
situation we have here. No real thought has been given to the aftermath
of the ending of the Morse code test.

Some of us have given it real thought, and have posted ideas. But the
mantra has always been that eliminating the code test would solve
everything.

Back to now...

After such a change, lots of different ideas come out of the woodwork
to replace the vacuum left by the probable disappearance of the Morse
code test. Some ideas are good, some make me shudder.

Such as?

But the fact is that since if the test disappears and nothing else
happens, it very well does mean that it is a reduction in knowledge
required to get a ticket. All arguments on what constitutes "knowledge"
in these regards is kind of like defining "is". You have to learn less,
no possible dispute without looking pretty silly.

Sure. But that's been going on for decades now. Some folks would even
say it is justified because a ham doesn't have to know as much today
to get on the air and avoid breaking the rules.

For example: How many hams do you know who use barefoot rigs that
require tuneup in order to operate properly? (Not the ATU - the rig
itself). Besides me, that is.

How many do you know who regularly use 100% homebrew stations?

Etc.

All this means that those who believe that requirements for a ticket
should be lowered have the upper hand.

Been that way for decades.

Those who do not believe that, that is to say that a Morse code test is
a desirable thing, or those who want the writtens to be reflective of a
fair degree of competence, have an uphill battle, and at the moment are
regarded as the losers.

Not by everyone.

Looking back on the history, however, shows that license requirements
are only one factor - and probably not as major a factor as some would
have us believe. What really matters is the interest and drive of the
person involved. Some people will learn just enough to pass the test
and then shut down, forgetting most of what they "learned" in a short
time. Others will go far beyond the test levels. It's all a choice.

"Radio" and "electronics" are such wide-ranging subjects that nobody
can be an expert at all of it. Or even most of it. The repeater expert
may be in the dark about wire antennas. The digital folks may be
helpless with power supplies. And even the most knowledgeable "radio
professionals" can be utterly clueless about the practical aspects of
amateur radio.

I am very disappointed that the winners in this one do not seem to have
any plan at all.

Actually, some of them do. For instance, here are some gems from Fred
Maia, W5YI:

- Outlaw all forms of amateur bulletins and one way information
transmissions, INCLUDING CODE PRACTICE, below 30 MHz (1995 petition to
the FCC)

- Reduce the entry level license to a 20 question written and include
voice privileges on the bands above 20 meters

Here are some others I've seen, by various others:

- Institute an age requirement of 14 years as the minimum for any
class of amateur license

- Eliminate all subbands-by-mode

- Reduce the number of license classes to one all-privs license.

- Reduce the number of license classes to two - entry and all-privs.

You get the idea.

All we hear are their personal thought on how *they*
don't support some of what is being proposed. That's nice, but Doggonit,
That doesn't cut it! They have to be darn active in seeing that things
don't fall apart around us. The ball is in their court now, and it seems
they don't know what to do with it. I don't really care what they
personally think, I want to see what they are going to do. And so far.......

What you're seeing is what I call the "Zen method of design", where
they will never tell you what they want, only what they don't want.

Gloat time is over. Your time has come. You now have the chance to
prove that you were right. And browbeating the losers isn't a very good
start.

Maybe we'll see a lot of newcomers and technoadvances after the code test goes.
And maybe we won't. Personally, I don't think we'll see either.

Probably not. Those who do advance the art are a small core of
technical adroit's, who come up with techniques that must not only
advance the art, but must be adapted by enough people to make them
viable. After all, it isn't much fun to have the newest cool method of
communication if there is only a couple people to communicate with.

BINGO!

Which means that the advance must be publicized, affordable, and offer
hams something they want.

Example: Cecil, W5DXP, used to rave about PACTOR-2. I started to look
into it, and discovered that (at the time) implementing it required
not just a shack computer but a $600 dedicated PACTOR 2 box. Which
explains why so few hams use the mode, compared to, say, PSK-31.

If that happens, what will be blamed for the ARS' perceived problems??

The PCTA's, because of their being so negative, and scaring the new
people away?

"Negative"? We're not "negative" - we're FOR something!

I'd bet a cup of coffee on that one. It is a pity when you
lose someone to blame, eh?

'zactly. But you'll never sell that one.

Meanwhile, the real challenges don't get the spotlight. Like CC&Rs -
what good are licenses if we cannot put up effective antennas?

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo

writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

What WILL be the end of ham radio is a lack of significant
growth ...

Let's get it straight - is dropping Element 1 going to give us lots more
growth or not?

I don't understand a few of the things Carl says here. That we will
dissapear unless we get "significant growth".

There are more US hams today than at any time in the past.

What exactly is that? a 100 percent increase in a day? increase at 1
percent over population increase?

That's what I've been asking.

I'd like to know the advances they will bring.

Similar to what newcomers have always brought.

I want to hear how those who oppose the ending of the Morse code
requirement are keeping ham radio from marching forward.

Time for the roadmap to the future to be laid out.

Don't hold yer breath waiting;-)

Or is this like the last scene in "The Candidate"?

Refresh my memory on that one, Mike.

The Candidate is a pretty good film about an idealistic fellow, (Robert

Redford) the son of a former Governor, who gets caught up in running for
office after being prodded by the local political machinery. Along the
way, he compromises most all of his values (all that is not relevant to
the case at hand. But in the end, after being elected to office, amongst
the victory celebration, he looks to his campaign manager (Peter Boyle -
Haw) completely confused, and asks "What do we do now?" He was
completely lost and didn't know what to do.

Sounds pretty familiar.....

My point is that I see a close relationship between that ending and the

situation we have here. No real thought has been given to the aftermath
of the ending of the Morse code test.

Some of us have given it real thought, and have posted ideas. But the
mantra has always been that eliminating the code test would solve
everything.

YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

Unless that was YOUR twisted "mantra."

It could be...you equate morse code with amateur radio so strongly
that you can't separate them, even in your imagination.



Those who do not believe that, that is to say that a Morse code test is

a desirable thing, or those who want the writtens to be reflective of a
fair degree of competence, have an uphill battle, and at the moment are
regarded as the losers.

Not by everyone.

The VEC Question Pool Committee is open to input. They are the ones
who ORIGINATE questions and answers.


Looking back on the history, however, shows that license requirements
are only one factor - and probably not as major a factor as some would
have us believe. What really matters is the interest and drive of the
person involved. Some people will learn just enough to pass the test
and then shut down, forgetting most of what they "learned" in a short
time. Others will go far beyond the test levels. It's all a choice.

"Interest and drive." :-)

That equates to "laziness" and other negative moral/ethical things?


"Radio" and "electronics" are such wide-ranging subjects that nobody
can be an expert at all of it.

You aren't an "expert" in radio-electronics?

Gosh, and you "DO electrical engineering." With a Masters degree, too!


... And even the most knowledgeable "radio
professionals" can be utterly clueless about the practical aspects of
amateur radio.

HARF!!! :-)


Here are some others I've seen, by various others:

- Institute an age requirement of 14 years as the minimum for any
class of amateur license

Yeah...let's hear it for all those "mature" 6-year-olds on the air
wiith the "big gun contesters."

Wow, that 14-year-old arbitrary limit sure must have stung you!

- Eliminate all subbands-by-mode

Blasphemy! Morsemen DESERVE elitism and their own private
spectral playpen!

- Reduce the number of license classes to one all-privs license.

Horrors! Remove the STATUS-TITLE-RANK-PRIVELEGE?!?!?

Can't have that!

- Reduce the number of license classes to two - entry and all-privs.

The OLD system - the one in which you triumphed - is ALWAYS
the BEST!!!

You get the idea.

Absolutely. Keep your elite morseman status and titles...after all
you are in the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Service!



The PCTA's, because of their being so negative, and scaring the new
people away?

"Negative"? We're not "negative" - we're FOR something!

What you are FOR is to keep your rank-title-status-privilege and you
don't want that "contaminated" by large-scale changes.



Meanwhile, the real challenges don't get the spotlight. Like CC&Rs -
what good are licenses if we cannot put up effective antennas?

What good are you that can't give in to new ideas, progressive ideas,
that intefere with your standards and practices of the 1930s?

LHA

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Not at all, Mr. Bluster. I wrote nothing about MY being relevant.

That's true. You are NOT relevant to any subject in here except
your over-prideful nonsense and trying to put down others who
won't worship you. Pfaughhh.

LHA

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo

writes:

N2EY wrote:

My point is that I see a close relationship between that ending and the

situation we have here. No real thought has been given to the aftermath
of the ending of the Morse code test.

Some of us have given it real thought, and have posted ideas. But the
mantra has always been that eliminating the code test would solve
everything.

YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

About real thought? posting ideas? the mantra? eliminating the code test
solving everything?

Unless that was YOUR twisted "mantra."

That couldn't be correct, Len. Why would someone who supports continued
morse testing have a mantra about the removal of morse testing solving
everything?

It could be...you equate morse code with amateur radio so strongly
that you can't separate them, even in your imagination.

How would you be in a position to know that?


"Radio" and "electronics" are such wide-ranging subjects that nobody
can be an expert at all of it.

You aren't an "expert" in radio-electronics?

He has answered the same question from you a couple of times.

Gosh, and you "DO electrical engineering." With a Masters degree, too!

Does that irk you?

... And even the most knowledgeable "radio
professionals" can be utterly clueless about the practical aspects of
amateur radio.

HARF!!! :-)

Okay, HARF clueless.

Here are some others I've seen, by various others:

- Institute an age requirement of 14 years as the minimum for any
class of amateur license

Yeah...let's hear it for all those "mature" 6-year-olds on the air
wiith the "big gun contesters."

I really appreciate your confirming what I wrote about your minimum age
requirement just a couple of days ago.

Wow, that 14-year-old arbitrary limit sure must have stung you!

Apparently not nearly as much as the blanket rejection of your idea for
instituting a minimum age requirement.


Blasphemy! Morsemen DESERVE elitism and their own private
spectral playpen!

Horrors! Remove the STATUS-TITLE-RANK-PRIVELEGE?!?!?

Can't have that!

The OLD system - the one in which you triumphed - is ALWAYS
the BEST!!!

Absolutely. Keep your elite morseman status and titles...after all
you are in the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Service!

What you are FOR is to keep your rank-title-status-privilege and you don't want that "contaminated" by large-scale changes.

What good are you that can't give in to new ideas, progressive ideas, that intefere with your standards and practices of the 1930s?

Maybe Schuler will give you a guest preaching shot at the Chrystal
Cathedral. If so, you can introduce your Improbability Thinking to the
world.

Remember, Len, none of this need concern you. You aren't remotely
involved in amateur radio.

Dave K8MN