"Dwight Stewart" wrote

As I see it, your position is that whites should NOT have the
jobs, money, or power exactly because they are the majority - much of it
should be transferred to minorities instead.

Dwight,

You have a vivid imagination, but it's damned distorted! Since I
haven't stated my position, whatever you "see" is something that
you're making up on the fly. (In short, you don't have a clue.)

To save you the effort of further imagining, here is my position in
three words.

"Race is irrelevant."

You seem to place great emphasis on race/ethnic background; ipso
facto, you're a racist.

With all kind wishes,

de Hans, K0HB

In article ,
(Hans K0HB) writes:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote

As I see it, your position is that whites should NOT have the
jobs, money, or power exactly because they are the majority - much of it
should be transferred to minorities instead.

Dwight,

You have a vivid imagination, but it's damned distorted! Since I
haven't stated my position, whatever you "see" is something that
you're making up on the fly. (In short, you don't have a clue.)

To save you the effort of further imagining, here is my position in
three words.

"Race is irrelevant."

You seem to place great emphasis on race/ethnic background; ipso
facto, you're a racist.

A review of any U.S. amateur radio periodical of the past half
century will show photographs that U.S. amateur radio
licensees are essentially white and male.

Ergo, U. S. amateur radio is racist? :-)

LHA

(Len Over 21) wrote


A review of any U.S. amateur radio periodical of the past half
century will show photographs that U.S. amateur radio
licensees are essentially white and male.

Ergo, U. S. amateur radio is racist? :-)

Race is irrelevant. The spectrum doesn't care who transmits.

73, de Hans, K0HB
--
Grand Exhalted Liberator of the Electric Smoke

"Hans K0HB" wrote:

To save you the effort of further imagining, here is
my position in three words.

"Race is irrelevant."

You seem to place great emphasis on race/ethnic
background; ipso facto, you're a racist.


You only say that because I'm white. If that were not the case, you'd be
saying the same thing to Condoleezza Rice (Nat, Sec, Advisor), Colin Powell
(Sec, of State), Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Mary Berry (Chair, US Com. on
Civil Rights), and a very long list of other minorities who think race and
race issues are very relevant in this country. Why should it be any less so
for whites? In reality, your open criticism of whites who talk about race,
without criticism of other races who do the same, only demonstrates your own
racism towards other whites.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dave Heil" wrote:
Dwight Stewart wrote:

Americans working at those jobs would do the
same things (pay taxes and so on), Dave.

Do some research on the number of retirees and the
number of workers paying taxes to support those retirees.

Why do we need immigrants to do that?

Because there aren't enough Americans born to do it.


What you fail to point out is how much those retirees paid into the system
over several decades of their lives to help support their own retirement,
only to have the government now say their isn't any money available because
it was spent on something else. The problem isn't the number of retirees -
it's the spending habits of this government. Now it's time for this
government to put that money back by cutting some of today's spending (a few
less military weapons should do it) instead of supposedly trying to gather
more people to collect taxes from.


No, that isn't correct. Moving dirt is menial work. Lifting
boxes is menial. Clerking at a convenience store is menial.
Employers choose not to pay folks in those positions more
than the jobs are worth.


And, by having a ready supply of cheap labor to fill those jobs, employers
ensure those jobs are not worth much. Employment and wages are simply
matters of supply and demand, Dave. By creating a glut in the workforce,
employers are able to pay less wages and still find employees to fill those
jobs. After all, people have to work to survive and employers know it.
Today, while business profits are astronomically high, working families are
struggling to pay bills and cover their massive debts (while those business
owners buy yachts and huge homes for their families). And now, to add insult
to injury, those employers financially support political candidates that
will pass legislation to enable millions of immigrants to enter the country,
creating an even larger glut in the workforce so business can pay even less
wages and make even higher profits. And if anyone objects to this massive
immigration, they're called racist. You can call me racist all you want - it
certainly isn't going to stop me from speaking out against this nonsense.


So let's all make 30 bucks per hour and then wonder why
the cost of everything skyrockets, huh? Americans want
good pay and they want the price of everything to be dirt
cheap. Tell us how to achieve both of those. (snip)


They've done it in other places around the world. Europeans make decent
wages, pay no more taxes than here (when you add in ALL our taxes - local,
state, federal, and so on), and consumer goods are not that much more
expensive then here (gas prices in Europe are high solely because of
government efforts to control pollution). They've done the same in the
wealthy countries of Asia. Why is it so impossible for this great country to
do what other countries have already done - provide decent wages for
workers, provide decent (not astronomical) profits for business, and keep
market prices reasonable?


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message hlink.net...
"Hans K0HB" wrote:

To save you the effort of further imagining, here is
my position in three words.

"Race is irrelevant."

You seem to place great emphasis on race/ethnic
background; ipso facto, you're a racist.


You only say that because I'm white.

Nope, I don't care what color you call yourself. I type slower so you
can read my lips -----

"R a c e i s i r r e l e v a n t."

With kindest personal regards,

de Hans, K0HB

Dwight Stewart wrote:



You only say that because I'm white. If that were not the case, you'd be
saying the same thing to Condoleezza Rice (Nat, Sec, Advisor), Colin Powell
(Sec, of State), Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Mary Berry (Chair, US Com. on
Civil Rights), and a very long list of other minorities who think race and
race issues are very relevant in this country. Why should it be any less so
for whites? In reality, your open criticism of whites who talk about race,
without criticism of other races who do the same, only demonstrates your own
racism towards other whites.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

Lets see, we can have an all black mayors conference, but just listen to
the uproar from all the Jesse Jackson idiots if we tried to have an all
white mayors conference. We can have a Miss Black America contest but
what a howl there would be if we attempted to have a Miss White America
contest. Yea Hans, it is just the whites that are racist.

Dwight Stewart wrote:

"Dave Heil" wrote:
Dwight Stewart wrote:

Americans working at those jobs would do the
same things (pay taxes and so on), Dave.

Do some research on the number of retirees and the
number of workers paying taxes to support those retirees.

Why do we need immigrants to do that?

Because there aren't enough Americans born to do it.

What you fail to point out is how much those retirees paid into the system
over several decades of their lives to help support their own retirement,
only to have the government now say their isn't any money available because
it was spent on something else.

Lucky I failed to point that out because it simply isn't true. When
Social Security began, where did the money to pay retirees of its early
years come from? It didn't come from those folks because they never
paid much in. It came in advance from the coffers of government. What
was paid in by early workers covered under Social Security went to pay
for the retirement of future workers. Social Security was never, by the
way, designed to be a full retirement package. It was designed to
supplement what a worker saved.


The problem isn't the number of retirees -
it's the spending habits of this government. Now it's time for this
government to put that money back by cutting some of today's spending (a few
less military weapons should do it) instead of supposedly trying to gather
more people to collect taxes from.

You've got a problem comprehending simple math. There are too few
workers contributing to the system and too many retirees drawing from
it.

No, that isn't correct. Moving dirt is menial work. Lifting
boxes is menial. Clerking at a convenience store is menial.
Employers choose not to pay folks in those positions more
than the jobs are worth.

And, by having a ready supply of cheap labor to fill those jobs, employers
ensure those jobs are not worth much.

Those jobs were never worth much and they'll never be worth much.


Employment and wages are simply
matters of supply and demand, Dave. By creating a glut in the workforce,
employers are able to pay less wages and still find employees to fill those
jobs.

Everybody wants high wages for any kind of work. High wages lead to
high prices for products and services. Yet no one wants to pay higher
prices for products and services because that would make their wages
worth less. Your stuck in an endless loop, Dwight.

After all, people have to work to survive and employers know it.

....and workers know it.

Today, while business profits are astronomically high, working families are
struggling to pay bills and cover their massive debts (while those business
owners buy yachts and huge homes for their families).

You're painting that picture from imagination, Dwight. I have a cousin
who owns a small town pharmacy which employs three people other than
himself. He has yet to buy his yacht and huge home but he has been in
business for almost twenty years. There is a fellow here in town who
owns a hardware store who will close it and retire next year because he
can find no one who will buy the business. He has no huge home and no
yacht. He has managed to make a living for some decades.


And now, to add insult
to injury, those employers financially support political candidates that
will pass legislation to enable millions of immigrants to enter the country,
creating an even larger glut in the workforce so business can pay even less
wages and make even higher profits.

Both the Democrats and Republicans support continued immigration because
they can read the writing on the wall.


And if anyone objects to this massive
immigration, they're called racist.

Only if in objecting they raise an alarm only over Hispanic, Asian and
African immigrants.

You can call me racist all you want - it
certainly isn't going to stop me from speaking out against this nonsense.

You can be a racist all you want. That isn't going to stop me from
calling you one.


So let's all make 30 bucks per hour and then wonder why
the cost of everything skyrockets, huh? Americans want
good pay and they want the price of everything to be dirt
cheap. Tell us how to achieve both of those. (snip)

They've done it in other places around the world. Europeans make decent
wages, pay no more taxes than here (when you add in ALL our taxes - local,
state, federal, and so on), and consumer goods are not that much more
expensive then here (gas prices in Europe are high solely because of
government efforts to control pollution).

Those holes in your knowledge base are gaping ones. My wife worked on
the local economy in Finland in the mid-1990's. She paid 42% of her
income in income tax. Her overtime was taxed at 50%. We paid 21% in
Value Added Tax on most items and 17% VAT on food items.

We just got back from a trip to Finland. The same dishwashing liquid we
buy here is double the price there. A 1.5 liter Pepsi sells for the
price we pay for 3 liters. A half liter bottle of Scotch sells for
$13.00 A tiny washing machine which would hold no more than half what
our American machine holds runs $500. A mixed drink in the average bar
runs ten bucks while a half liter beer will set you back about four
clams. The cheapest car on the market, a Russian Lada (a Fiat clone) is
$20,000. Gasoline prices are about $4.50 per gallon, not because of
intent to reduce pollution but because a) Finland imports 100% of its
petroleum and b) the Finnish government charges high additional taxes.
Now, I'll entertain additional lectures from you on how the Europeans do
things.


They've done the same in the
wealthy countries of Asia. Why is it so impossible for this great country to
do what other countries have already done - provide decent wages for
workers, provide decent (not astronomical) profits for business, and keep
market prices reasonable?

Why not just quit whining, Dwight?

Dave K8MN

"Dave Heil" wrote:

Lucky I failed to point that out because it simply isn't
true. When Social Security began, where did the
money to pay retirees of its early years come from?
It didn't come from those folks because they never
paid much in. It came in advance from the coffers
of government. (snip)


You really need to study up on Social Security, Dave. You have to pay so
much into the system before you're eligible to collect a dime. When Social
Security first started, people were not able to collect for several years
(how many years depended on how much they were able to pay into the system
each year). With the additional interest from that money, the system was
supposed to pay for itself. Of course, there was no interest after the money
was spent elsewhere.


You've got a problem comprehending simple math.
There are too few workers contributing to the system
and too many retirees drawing from it.


Oh, I understand math very well. You just don't understand the Social
Security system, which is why your math is flawed.


Everybody wants high wages for any kind of work.
High wages lead to high prices for products and
services. (snip)


Nobody, other than you, is talking about "high" wages, Dave. What I'm
talking about is "decent" wages that have not been artificially reduced by a
created workforce glut. Today, even a two income family would have a hard
time getting by on the minimum wage. They certainly wouldn't be able to put
much money aside for their future so you can kill off that Social Security
system you dislike so much. While you're traveling around town, take a good
look at those minimum wage, or near minimum age, workers. A growing number
of them are middle age or older (not young kids). Many were pushed out of
decent paying jobs by industry moving overseas and a growing glut in the
workforce here. How are these people going to provide for their families and
still put away money for the future?


Both the Democrats and Republicans support continued
immigration because they can read the writing on the wall.


Both parties support immigration because it provides direct benefits to
them and/or their financial supporters. It provides no benefit to the
American worker or American families. Indeed, it harms both of those.


Only if in objecting they raise an alarm only over Hispanic,
Asian and African immigrants.


They're the primary immigrants today, Dave. When talking about
immigration, who would you rather I talk about - Aboriginal Australians?


Those holes in your knowledge base are gaping ones. My
wife worked on the local economy in Finland in the mid-
1990's. She paid 42% of her income in income tax. Her
overtime was taxed at 50%. We paid 21% in Value
Added Tax on most items and 17% VAT on food items.

We just got back from a trip to Finland. The same dish-
washing liquid we buy here is double the price there. A
1.5 liter Pepsi sells for the price we pay for 3 liters. A half
liter bottle of Scotch sells for $13.00 A tiny washing
machine which would hold no more than half what our
American machine holds runs $500.


And I've lived in Europe (Germany, Switzerland, Italy, and the UK) almost
half of my adult life and worked for European companies for much of that
time. While prices may be that high in Finland, what you say certainly is
not the case throughout Europe. Taxes were never even close to that high and
neither was the sales tax. As for your dishwashing liquid, I'm sure your
imported liquid was fairly expensive, as are all imported products in any
country. We paid more for our imported tea, but that doesn't mean there
wasn't cheaper local brands on the store shelves. And, finally, if you paid
that much for a washing machine, you got ripped off. We paid that much for
stackable washer/dryer sets in both Germany and the UK. Either Finland has
extraordinary prices or you need to learn how to shop better on the European
economy.


The cheapest car on the market, a Russian Lada (a Fiat clone)
is $20,000. (snip)


Nonsense. Throughout Continental Europe, you can buy a BMW 315 or 318 for
that price. The Fiat "duck" is only about $4,500 (my wife wanted one). While
we were in Germany, we purchased a darn fast, and darn comfortable,
French-made Citroen BX-19GT for less than $16,000 (loaded, with even air
conditioning for those trips to Southern Europe).


Why not just quit whining, Dwight?


Why not just quit listening, Dave?


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"JJ" wrote in message
...
Dwight Stewart wrote:



You only say that because I'm white. If that were not the case, you'd
be
saying the same thing to Condoleezza Rice (Nat, Sec, Advisor), Colin
Powell
(Sec, of State), Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Mary Berry (Chair, US Com.
on
Civil Rights), and a very long list of other minorities who think race
and
race issues are very relevant in this country. Why should it be any less
so
for whites? In reality, your open criticism of whites who talk about
race,
without criticism of other races who do the same, only demonstrates your
own
racism towards other whites.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

Lets see, we can have an all black mayors conference, but just listen to
the uproar from all the Jesse Jackson idiots if we tried to have an all
white mayors conference. We can have a Miss Black America contest but
what a howl there would be if we attempted to have a Miss White America
contest. Yea Hans, it is just the whites that are racist.


It behooves all of us to be just as indignant about racism in any venue,
regardless of ethnicity of the racist.

That having been said, I can understand some of the seclusion each race
enjoys from others, IF the purpose is cultural. What is specific to a black
mayors conference are those things specifically related to black issues in
the community(ies) they represent. I am certain that if there were issues
that needed addressing in a "whites only" venue, then you'd see a white
mayors conference and, honestly, I am not so sure there isn't one. What we
may find generally attractive in a representative for the United States in a
Miss America, is totally different from what the Black/Negro/Colored
(depending on the part of society and geographical/historical perspective
you come from) find in a representative specific to Black America.

I also don't see those things as racist and I am wondering if you really do.
I mean, the "race" card--as its so affectionately come to be known--can be
played anywhere. And, there are people just stammering to be offended, no
matter what. I disregard them. I don't see that a all male organization is
necessarily discriminatory, either. Do you? I would hope not and, if you
do not, then why is there a problem for you with a all _________ (whatever
race) organization? What about a sports organization that won't allow
women? What about.....???

Kim W5TIT