On 15 Dec 2003 12:58:30 GMT, N2EY wrote:

OK - who/what defines what a "church" is?

"Rev Gene" (W.Eugene Scott), one of the first TV preachers in the
1970s, tried to claim that his radio and TV stations (licensed to
House of Faith, at one time a real church but by that time merely a
shell for his radio and TV operations) were his "church" and
therefore immune from FCC and California Attorney General audit and
investigation of claims of misappropriation of donated funds. The
Supreme Court of the US disagreed with him and eventually he lost
all the stations, some in outright license revocation and some in
tax sales.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

What is any of this to you? You aren't a radio amateur. You aren't a
member of the ARRL. That hasn't stopped you from huffing and puffing.

I'm just campaigning for the elimination of morse code testing.

What is that to you?

It effects me because I am an active radio amateur. You, on the other
hand, are in no way involved.

You've already passed morse code tests.

Yes, I have. That is of no concern to you.

You are the ultimate amateur.

Thanks for the accolades, Len but I'm just one U.S. radio amateur among
hundreds of thousands.

You might have been a professional once, but you could not even
get a job with an amateur organization.

Yes, I was a professional in radio for quite a number of years. I don't
use that as a pulpit from which to lecture radio amateurs. You do and
you aren't even involved.

If you've been paying attention, I was offered a job with the ARRL. I
turned it down. Are you playing loose with facts again?

No wonder you are so bitter.

I think you must have me mixed up with you. I'm a radio amateur. You
are a bystander.

Dave K8MN

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Brian wrote:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
digy.com...
"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
igy.com...

It probably was no longer cost effective to sell it on newstands.

If the ARRL is making money (a no-no for a non-profit corp) then
report
them
to the IRS. If they are not making money, then no matter how big
they
are,
it is not about money since no one is making a profit.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Un-friggin-believable.

Non-profits aren't about profit. They're about salaries.

If the salaries are too high, get on the board and get them reduced.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Who said they were too high?

They have to balance their books somehow (to avoid the appearance of
profit), and the salary is the most convenient place to dump the
excess.

Sounds like one of Len's typical conspiracy/dishonesty rants aimed
toward the ARRL.

Quit trying to sound like a Ba'athist amateur, Klunk.

There certainly weren't many of them, kindly old gent. Still, YI1BGD
contacts weren't that hard to come by. Rarer still would be a QSL
confirming a contact with you on the ham bands.

The League (of Notions) MAKES MONEY on the publication side
of their conglomerate of control.

Ads in QST pay for everything in the QST staff and the cost of job
printing and fulfillment (publication talk for mailing/distributing).

The "non-profit" stuff and nonsense is for lowering their taxes.

No kidding? Thanks for clearing this up for those of us who've only
been members for three or four decades, Len. You're pretty up to date
for a non-member, non-radio amateur.

You need copies of their IRS forms from 2002 and previous years?
Those are on the Internet.

Thanks, but I have no need of them.

I interviewed for a League position years back. The
salary offered wasn't enough to cover a move and life in the greater
Hartford area.

Translation: You were rejected. (boo hoo for you)

You've mistranslated. What part of "the salary offered" wasn't clear to
you? Are you playing loose with the facts again?

While I'm sure that salaries are now better, I don't
think any League staffers are putting up gold-plated Rohn tower and 80m
yagis at their palatial estates.

Rohn filed for bankruptcy on account of that?

No, I think they waited for decades for your business and it dawned on
someone at the plant that it just wasn't going to come about.

You can see the top five staffers' salaries given on their 2002 IRS
forms.

And?

It's about your ignorance of what a non-profit really is.

*Guffaw!*. Her ignorance? I see some gaping holes in your own
database.

Nooo, Klunk, "non-profit" is a status to claim for paying LESS
taxes.

Really? Can I see a show of hands for those here who weren't aware of
that?

If you are foolish enough to believe that W1AW's station, the
"museum" and all the other paraphenalia came out of dues, you've
got a database gap large enough to sail the USS Enterprise through.

I've made no such statement. I know how a non-profit organization
operates. I know how the ARRL operates. Sadly, I know how you operate.

With all the dissatisfaction you've expressed, why not start your own
organization for like-minded hams? I'm sure you'd amass a following in
no time.

Three-fourths of all licensed U.S. radio amateurs are NOT members.

One fourth, a sizeable number, ARE members. There are also Associate
Members who are not licensees. You aren't a Full Member nor are you an
Associate Member.

That should be evidenciary. To all but the minority who are members.

So, to see if we have your latest yarn straight, ARRL members aren't
aware that there are others who are not members?

Members "KNOW what is good for all the others" and therefore they
are the elite.

Other than you, who issues such statements? What is any of this to you
as an outsider to amateur radio and the ARRL?

The League (of Notions) still holds on vainly to the idea that morse
code is still the ultimate of amateur skills...long after the rest of the
radio world has given it up, discarded it for communications.

Maybe you can point us to some place on the ARRL web site where such a
statement is made.

Continue to be the acidic spam-bot for the League (of Notions), old
Klunk. You have taken a Ba'ath...but are yet unclean.

Sounds like the bilious rantings of some geezer who is on the outside of
amateur radio, looking in.

Dave K8MN

Brian wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message t...


Won't happen, Dan. People like that have selective memory. They'll rail
about how QST doesn't have articles about what they want to see, and
conveniently forget about the important jobs ARRL does for us.

1. That only a minority of hams belong to ARRL speaks much more about
hams than it does the ARRL.


Are you saying that I'm a sucker?

Don't think so. I'm a member too.


2. I would challenge the ARRL haters to come up with scenario's of what
the ARS would be like today (if it even existed) if there was no ARRL.

- Mike KB3EIA -


World peace?

I prefer my peas boiled with butter, though I might like to try whirled
peas some time.

- Mike KB3EIA

Mike Coslo wrote:
I prefer my peas boiled with butter, though I might like to try whirled
peas some time.

- Mike KB3EIA

Finally something I can relate to in rec.radio.cb . Homegrown
peas and butter. Mmmmm!

Thanks for sharing this thread with us CBer's.

Dee D. Flint wrote:

"Brian" wrote in message
om...

Mike Coslo wrote in message

...

One of the greatest rules of parliamentary procedure, and a real
cornerstone of representative democracy in gneral is that even though
the majority rules, the minority is allowed to have it's say.

I think waaaaaayyyy too many people these days seem to have forgotten
that. The minority must have it's say.

Dee, I think you are taking a wrong tack on this one. Brian needs his
say, and should not be forced to be a person at a high level of power in
an institution to have his opinion.

Not everyone wants to be active or even *can* be active in an
organization. There are only so many leadership positions.

Mike, thanks for your comments. Its refreshing to hear that I don't
have to carry the weight of the ARS on my back, and that my personal
involvement in the national club, though significant, is not an
absolute requirement to achieve change. I really don't think the
"minority" that I belong to is much smaller than the other minority
that claims to speak for all amateur radio.

Notice the FCC comments during the NPRM with respect to the code.
Notice the current debate about the number of license classes
necessary to keep the ARS vibrant and healthy.

There is no need for me to be a subversive within that other minority
group for which I have supported and paid annual dues since 1986.
There is no need for a hostile takeover. Hainey is not my president.
The FCC has solicited my comments, and I gave them.

I think Dee's demands are extreme.


You are expecting changes out of all proportion to the effort that you are
putting into it and you think my opinions are extreme??

I'm not so sure he is, Dee. I see a person that disagrees with some of
what the ARRL is doing, yet still supports the basic objective. I mean
if he's been a member since 86, that counts for something.

Kind of like how I am with politics. The Dems are in shambles, and the
Repubs are waaaaaayyyyy too liberal any more with their way out of line
deficit spending.

But I still vote, and try to pick the least awful candidate.

(Brian) wrote in message . com...

I think Dee's demands are extreme.

You also think the demands to prove your own assertions are
"extreme"...so what???...You haven't done that yet so why should we
expect anything else from you?

Steve, K4YZ

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Heil
writes:

What is any of this to you? You aren't a radio amateur. You aren't a
member of the ARRL. That hasn't stopped you from huffing and puffing.

I'm just campaigning for the elimination of morse code testing.

This is an assertion that has proven to be false over and over
again, Anderscum...so why do you keep making it?

What is that to you?

What's ANYTHING about Amateur Radio to you?

You've already passed morse code tests.

You've passed NO Amateur Radio tests of ANY kind. No license =
No practical experience.

You are the ultimate amateur.

You're not much of anything...You're an "ex" of many things, none
of them mastered, it would seem.

You might have been a professional once, but you could not even
get a job with an amateur organization.

Ditto you, Lennie.

No wonder you are so bitter.

Double ditto. And a very ugly, DECEITFUL kind of bitter, at
that.

Steve, K4YZ

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article et, "KØHB"
writes as if he just had a colorectal examination
with a fully warmed-up 100 W American Beauty soldering iron:

"Brian" wrote

She is, more or less, an official ARRL spam-bot.
Wonder if she is an official bulletin station?

And you are, more or less, the official LHA junior-Unabasher.

OLD one...(SNIP)

And YOU would be WHAT...?!?! You're HOW old, Lennie? Older than
DIRT, was it?

(UNSNIP)...Brian Burke is his own man.

Not according to HIM, Lennie. YOU are his mentor...A bitter,
openly contemptful and patently untruthful person. Said so himself.

He states an opposite
opinion from the "official" Newington spin on how amateurism
in radio is "supposed to be." Therefore, you, as a Devout Believer
in the glory and honor and mysticism of amateurism, must
chastise the UNbelievers...and call them "unabashers" for not
accepting the legends, mythos, and religious traditions of radio
as "officially" stated by ARRL publications.

Very little of Brain's "commentary" has anything to do with the
ARRL. Most of it has to do with uncorroborated claims of achievements
in Amateur radio.

Somewhere in the past you were often saying "gentlemen can
disagree without being disagreeable." You, sir, are being terribly
disagreeable, ergo you are NO gentleman.

I guess it's a relief that YOU have never made such a claim, ergo
we can dispense with any ideas of what kind of gentleman YOU are, eh,
Lennie?

I want you to be fully aware of your role in rrap, Brian.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, you should be "aware" of how others see you, OLD
man, and that others are quite aware you are NOT the CNO of
any rrap party.

An assertion by He Who Would Be King. Ya really do need to read
your own stuff before ya send it, Lennie.

It goes like this: LHA is the
organ grinder, playing a song called "I Left My Heart in ADA, and Newington
Won't Give It Back".

"Newington" had absolutely nothing to do with ACAN or ADA, super
chief. ARRL had NOTHING to do with any other places I worked in
the last half century nor the people I worked WITH from DoD and
other branches of the U.S. government.

Hot flash, hot rod...No place you've ever worked (save for a long
defunct magazine) nor anyone you know has anything to do with Amateur
Radio TODAY, yesterday, in the fifties, thirties, or any OTHER decade
either.

The BoD of a small town
club in New England would be lost trying to carry even half the traffic
load of the third largest U.S. Army transmitter site in the world 50
years ago. All that the League seems to know is that on-off keying
code is the ultimate "art" of radio because that is what they spin off
on their membership, covertly and overtly.

I doubt you are trutly aware of what Amateur Radio is really
capable of, and I serioulsy doubt most of your other "claims" about
the bulk of traffic handled by ANY Army Radio station.

You are the little monkey in a bright red hat hopping
up and down and acting silly for our amusement.

You are being truly a contentious OLD fart in here, trolling desperately
for someone to despise...and then doing a poor job of denigration.

Whew! THAT had to hurt, Lennie! Ducking as it came back at you,
that is...

With all best wishes for the recovery of your missing T5 logs,

And here's "best wishes" for some education that might penetrate
a code-warped psyche housing in regards to: (1) voice modulated
transmitters of 1906; (2) cell phone differences between power-up
and first cell-connect; (3) so-called "one-way" ionospheric radio
propagation paths; (4) assorted little gems of radio disinformation
that you haven't recognized in the past nor admit to making mistakes
on in public.

I've not commented in this subject thread before, only on the 14
petitions before the FCC thread (as its origininator).

Wow...an original bit of work...In an unmoderated USENET group
discussing an avocation for which you have no practical
experience....I'll bet the guys in the IEEE are just bowing down in
reverence at this very moment...

The NPRM or
whatever as a result of those petitions will decide the FUTURE of
radio amateurism in the USA. While the REGULARS in the jolly
little chatroom of morseaholics are busy puffing themselves up about
their marvelous experience and tenure in on-offing the radio waves,
the future is sneaking up on everyone. All you are doing lately is
just behaving like one of your iceholes in the wintertime.

You say this as if YOUR day with etrnity is never coming.

You also say it in such a way as to IGNORE the countless posts by
almost all of the "morseaholics" in this newsgroup that have
discussed, at length on occassion, digital and other modes.

Screws up your "I Know Bettr Than You Do" rants.

It's too bad that your Xanax ran out and you switched from ran to rant.

You cetainly like to THINK that others hav a problem, don't you,
Lennie???

You should break out Mrs. Lennie's correspondence course shrink
books and see what it says about the manifesting symptoms of paranoia.

Don't you just HATE it when somebody steps in and ruins your rant?

You've only managed to create yet another rant of YOUR own in
which YOU provided yet another opportunity to rub your nose in your
own excrement, Your Most Stupidness.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Not yet. Back under your rock, Lennie...The SNL "Pathological
Liars Association" needs a new poster boy and your name is on a real
short list.

Steve, K4YZ

I eat my peas with honey,
I've done it all my life.
It makes the peas taste funny,
But it keeps them on my knife.

-SSB

Mike Coslo wrote:
Brian wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in message
t...


Won't happen, Dan. People like that have selective memory.
They'll rail about how QST doesn't have articles about what they want
to see, and conveniently forget about the important jobs ARRL does
for us.

1. That only a minority of hams belong to ARRL speaks much more
about hams than it does the ARRL.



Are you saying that I'm a sucker?


Don't think so. I'm a member too.



2. I would challenge the ARRL haters to come up with scenario's
of what the ARS would be like today (if it even existed) if there was
no ARRL.

- Mike KB3EIA -



World peace?


I prefer my peas boiled with butter, though I might like to try whirled
peas some time.

- Mike KB3EIA